Just some general or unusual Mid drive questions

[c0mpute]

G'Day,

How, to start this... hmmm

I have a Yuba mundo cargo bike and would like to know a bit more about cyclone and gng models of motors..
Idea is to have one motor with a double free wheel cog (acting as a generator) so that when pedaling backwards, you can do so freely..
have a second motor sitting above or to the side of the other motor a little back from the original so it only spins the generator.. (freewheel cog)
then have a 3 gear freewheel crank. same ones that come with any kit, just keeping the 3 speeds on it...

So some questions come to mind which are..

Has anyone tried or know if a cyclone double freewheel cog will fit on a 48V gng motor? say 500w brushless for arguments sake..
Does anyone know if a gng motor can use or is compatible with a conhismotor 48v 20amp hour programmable controller? I like the way i can set the speed with the digital read out and programmable display.
Does anyone know where i could get a bracket made to fit the normal Mid drive motors up the front of the back wheel, where two bolts sit to hold side railings and two bolts in front where the stand sits.. or even hold onto the side of the bike frame?..

Does anyone know where i can get a 3 gear freewheel crank for a UG51 chain set that Yuba uses on their bikes?

Apology btw.. I am not really a hobbyist. i am just trying to make a bike the i would like it when you have min resources to use (south west sydney is not the best place for ebike stores) ..

Thanks for your interest in this post..
Cheers..

Ps, I forgot to mention that two motors could come in handy if one decides to break down. using the generator as a motor if needed.. hwhich is also part of the idea...

 

[amberwolf]

have a second motor sitting above or to the side of the other motor a little back from the original so it only spins the generator..

Why do you want to waste power having one motor spin another to generate power? That kind of arrangement will only ever lose power, never gain it.

 

[dogman dan]

There is the reason you don't see this idea done all the time. Too much of your pedaling effort will just make heat in the generator. If you use one motor to run the other as a generator, it just doubles the waste. It's like running your car air conditioner with all the windows open.

At my work, I field this pedal to charge the battery question almost daily. My reply is that sure, it will work, and you only have to pedal 100 miles to charge a battery enough to run on the motor 10 miles. Or if stationary, you can pedal the same effort to go 20 miles, and get to go 10 miles. Or, you could hook a log to your bike and ride around dragging it, if you just want to increase your exercise.

Now, this 100 miles is pedaling to push the bike forward, AND charge the battery at the same time. It's spreading your 100 watts or so of human output pretty thin, leaving very little left for actual forward motion. This takes inefficient, and makes it horribly inefficient.

What you want to do is a bit different, and can be done, but it's still wasteful compared to pedaling up 100w of forward power, then supplementing it with motor power for a faster speed. Pedal generation does have it's uses, and in some situations it can be worth it's inefficiency compared to alternatives. Pedaling up some light for the evening in a remote location is one thing. Pedaling up your power as you ride past electric plugs is another.

If you want some redundancy, a small geared hub motor on the front wheel can do that. But in my experience so far, It's rarely a motor that stops you. It's wiring problems, battery problems, on rare occasions a controller, followed last and least by a motor actually conking out.

 

[c0mpute]

There is the reason you don't see this idea done all the time. Too much of your pedaling effort will just make heat in the generator. If you use one motor to run the other as a generator, it just doubles the waste. It's like running your car air conditioner with all the windows open.

At my work, I field this pedal to charge the battery question almost daily. My reply is that sure, it will work, and you only have to pedal 100 miles to charge a battery enough to run on the motor 10 miles. Or if stationary, you can pedal the same effort to go 20 miles, and get to go 10 miles. Or, you could hook a log to your bike and ride around dragging it, if you just want to increase your exercise.

Now, this 100 miles is pedaling to push the bike forward, AND charge the battery at the same time. It's spreading your 100 watts or so of human output pretty thin, leaving very little left for actual forward motion. This takes inefficient, and makes it horribly inefficient.

What you want to do is a bit different, and can be done, but it's still wasteful compared to pedaling up 100w of forward power, then supplementing it with motor power for a faster speed. Pedal generation does have it's uses, and in some situations it can be worth it's inefficiency compared to alternatives. Pedaling up some light for the evening in a remote location is one thing. Pedaling up your power as you ride past electric plugs is another.

If you want some redundancy, a small geared hub motor on the front wheel can do that. But in my experience so far, It's rarely a motor that stops you. It's wiring problems, battery problems, on rare occasions a controller, followed last and least by a motor actually conking out.

Maybe i came across in the wrong way. .i am not sure. i don't know much about electricity. I do know that you can use it and make it.. all from the same motor, depending on your application of it..

Two batteries, two motors.. one driving the bike as a normal motor connected to a conhismotor programmable controller, another that can still connect to a controller as back up, though just producing electricity (saves the manual pedal power) run the motor (re generator) to a charger or something that connects to the unused battery while it charges..the battery in use goes flat, swap batteries and you get the general idea..

I saw a dutchman use a 24v hub motor to run a light bulb with capacitors attached.. it made me think... Could i apply this to a mid drive and keep all my gears? I see bike caravans with solar panels on them and probably have a battery inside to help run power ect.. made me think some more...
A battery that you could put a power plug into to charge a mobile phone would be great, (I know of usb ports on batteries)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ed5koJoj4D0
And
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OD1gSx92DuM

Never have to stop at a power point at a house or building to charge up...
Intentions, not use pedal power, though the general motor to run a another motor as a generator to produce electricity even if it involves the help of solar panels equals self efficiency.

maybe the help of a bike caravan or trailer may help like this one?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvmT7oKlQmc

My apology, i did forget to mention something like a 450 watt motor with a 500watt motor as a generator, though i also know the wattage or size of the motor wont matter because it depends on the speed of the first motor &/or speed of the wheels if using a hub, to how much you get out of the generator...
Maybe one mid drive and one hub at the back might be a better config?...

 

[Drunkskunk]

I think I may understand what you mean, but I'll be honest, it's still not totally clear.

Are you thinking that you can generate power with one motor while using the other motor to power the bike at the same time? And spinning the other motor by pedaling backwards?

If that's what you mean, then.... It will sort of work, but The efficiency losses on a system like that would be abysmal. it's about the worst way to do it.

Lets break it down. First, unless you have spent a life time walking backwards, you aren't going to be very capable of making much power pedaling this way. Eventually you could train your muscles to do it, but it would take years of working out to see results. Assuming you do, and you can reach competitive athlete levels of performance, you can only produce around 150 watts continuously, and that would be a strenuous workout.

Second, the threads on the pedals, crank arms, and bottom bracket are made for tightening under load, so they won't loosen when you pedal normally. they will loosen eventually when you pedal backwards.

Third, Very little of the 150 watt hours you produce will ever reach the rear wheel in this kind of system.
Nothing can ever work at 100% efficacy. Every step in the process has losses from friction, resistance, and other factors. If you make a superhuman 150wh with your legs, the generator will output around 80% of that, so 120WH. the controller you feed that into might strip another 10% off, so 108wh makes it out of the controller. Depending on the battery chemistry, you could lose 10% or more there. Lets stick with 10. So 97wh are actually in the battery now, from the 150wh you're sweating to produce.
But it gets worse. Now when you want to use that leg power you stored up, you have to do so through the motor. Open geared Mid drives are around 75% efficient, so 73wh are making it to the back wheel. That's only half the power you made with your legs available to the back wheel

Or, as an alternative, you could just pedal normally With the single motor, and ~95% of that 150 watts you could produce will make it to the back wheel, meaning the other motor doesn't have to produce as much power, and keeps that power stored in the battery.

 

[amberwolf]

Intentions, not use pedal power, though the general motor to run a another motor as a generator to produce electricity

Using an electric motor to run a generator only loses power, it does not gain it.

There's a lot of threads around here where people want to do that, and while it will "work" it just wastes power, because efficiencies can't be greater than 100%, and are rarely higher than 50-75%.

If you wanna try it, just take any two motors with sprockets, mount them on a bench, connect them via chain, and hook up their controllers to the same battery. Set one as "regen" braking, and one as full throttle, and run it, and see how long the battery lasts.

Then try the same test without the regen braking engaged, so the second motor (generator) just exists in the system and doesn't "do" anything, and you'll find the battery lasts way longer.

If you then apply a physical load to the system (like riding the bike down the road) and redo the two tests, you'll see similar results.

It just wastes power to do it.


If you want to be able to recharge the battery from the motor, you're going to have to input power from some totally separate source to turn the motor, like pedalling it down the road, or a gasoline powered engine, or a long steep downhill and just engage regen braking on it, or giant windmill blades temporarily bolted to the wheel that drives the motor, and a high wind. Or something totally separate that doesnt' do anything with the motor, like solar or plug-in, etc.

That's just how it works, and you can't change it.

 

[nutnspecial]

I like your second vid OP, it's informative but imo taken out of context, as others have mentioned. Electric motors as we know them characteristically operate at a loss (200w output requires min ~220w input)

If you use even just 150w to move the bike via typical motor (3ph brushless), and manage input of human power of 150w completely independantly for system recharge, you're still better off with just a single simple 150w ebike, or even just a pedalbike because of all the added complication and cost, and weight detracting from locomotion efficiency.

___________
Consider the size, cost and realism of getting even 150w of solar continuous, and likely you'll disregard for these purposes. There are fellows on here that did gas hybrids that could interest you or at least further enlighten. I'm thinking of one inparticular, but even if not finding that particular build there's others. https://www.google.com/search?sitesearch=endless-sphere.com&q=+gasoline%20%20+generator%20%20+ebike&gws_rd=ssl

 

[spinningmagnets]

3A is Considered a slow charger, 5A is considered fast for 18650-cell lithium, and 7A is something I've seen on a LiPo system.

For some reason, batteries can discharge electricity much faster than it can charge. A charging system that doesn't get the battery hot will usually take a long time to charge...existing regen systems usually limit how many amps are crammed back into the battery. How do you plan on monitoring the temp of the battery, and limiting how many amps are pumped into it?

 

[c0mpute]

What do you guys think of this? exchange thee pedal power to motor and... two batteries...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-7iSmC4s5A

There is also this page which talks about motor ratings.. in wattage and voltage...
http://www.ebikeschool.com/myth-ebike-wattage/

So are people are saying it is impossible?

 

[dogman dan]

The way I understood it, you were thinking of pedaling a motor as a generator, rather than pedaling the wheel. This works, and has been done. One argument for it, on a trike, was that the rider could just churn out a steady output in city traffic, when rolling, when stopped, all the same.

Trouble is, so much of his output gets lost, that you just keep coming back to the same old deal. Easier to find a plug for 15 min, than pedal up power for an hour. Far more efficient to use the human input to turn the back wheel. Easier still, to just build a bike that can carry a mega battery. My latest one is such an example, it has more battery carry capacity than I have battery. And right now, I have enough for an 80 mile ride. I'm only limited by my funding of battery. not ability to carry it. and any bike can carry 20 ah of modern lithium battery. Enough for 20-40 miles.

What I am trying to say is, to extend your range, pedal the bike, not a generator. Spend your time and money acquiring more battery.

Or,,, though not popular, there are bikes out there with both gas drive and electric drive. Though not real efficient, the gas motor can push the bike while the front wheel electric motor is in regen. This still sucks for efficiency, but at least the gas motor doesn't get tired.

 

[c0mpute]

The way I understood it, you were thinking of pedaling a motor as a generator, rather than pedaling the wheel. This works, and has been done. One argument for it, on a trike, was that the rider could just churn out a steady output in city traffic, when rolling, when stopped, all the same.

Trouble is, so much of his output gets lost, that you just keep coming back to the same old deal. Easier to find a plug for 15 min, than pedal up power for an hour. Far more efficient to use the human input to turn the back wheel. Easier still, to just build a bike that can carry a mega battery. My latest one is such an example, it has more battery carry capacity than I have battery. And right now, I have enough for an 80 mile ride. I'm only limited by my funding of battery. not ability to carry it. and any bike can carry 20 ah of modern lithium battery. Enough for 20-40 miles.

What I am trying to say is, to extend your range, pedal the bike, not a generator. Spend your time and money acquiring more battery.

Or,,, though not popular, there are bikes out there with both gas drive and electric drive. Though not real efficient, the gas motor can push the bike while the front wheel electric motor is in regen. This still sucks for efficiency, but at least the gas motor doesn't get tired.

I understand where you are coming from..Though the idea was to run a completely different motor that is not connected to the other one, except via chain link only, that chain would sit on the inside of the freewheel cyclone cog while the generator would sit at the bottom on the main bike chain.. bunny hopping the chain of thats the right term for it...

Anyway, it was to set the bottom motor in motion, not using anything else other than the motiton and speed of the bike as the chain flowed forward like it does on a gng or conhismotor midrive system would at the crank.. If i can program the controller to travel at a certain and constant max speed of say 20 to 25 km/h then i could set a standard of constant flow until stopped..

In saying that, I have 3 1000watt hub motors as it is, though i am unhappy with the outcome of having them.. I cant get the bike the way i want it in the form of original rims, change from v-breaks to disk... and if installing a mid drive, i would normally have to get rid of the three geared crank at the front..
I would like to keep those gears for when i pedal.. In any normal given situation, i just use the bike to help take off from intersections so i can help keep drivers behind me happy... i then would normally pedal the rest of the way until....though on long distance streets and if i wanted to do something crazy like travel interstate.. then what options are available to me other than just solar is what i ask myself.. is two batteries going to cut it for me or should i maybe get four that sit on flat batteries that sit on top of each other on the rails instead? charge two while using one ect..

Second idea, have one mid drive up the back so it does not interfere with gears on the bike.. put a hub motor on the back and use it as like any other dynamo that produces electricity when the wheel moves.. In this case I would say at 20km/h it should produce a fair bit of energy to power lights front and back and a few extra's on the side...

Maybe this might help a bit.. I do plan on getting two batteries.. just taking into consideration of changing to a 36v system or even a 24v .. or keeping the 48v ones i have.... Also if i have calculated it right, one 48v battery would get me into the city, though would not get me out hence the idea of two batteries. one charging while using the other... ..

 

[amberwolf]

It doesn't matter which way you do it.

If you take power from your forward motion or the motion of the motor, you are simply using up your battery faster.

You cannot recharge your battery from any source of electric power that is already moving the bike; it will use more battery than it recharges.

Even "regen braking" will only add charge by stopping the bike, and it takes more power to get it going again than you got by stopping it, so it can't be used for that either, unless you are on a downhill slope. Even then, it's more efficient to just coast down the hill and use your momentum to go back up the next one, or else again you end up using more power to go up the next hill than you got out of going down the previous one. If you have really long steep hills you could do it, but you still use more energy getting up the hill than you will get going back down it.


The only way you can recharge the batteries while the bike is moving is to use some other source of power than what is moving the bike.

You can use your pedals to directly run the generator, but it's very inefficient compared to just pedalling the wheel directly, as has been shown by others here.

You can use a gasoline powered generator on a trailer, but it's a lot of weight and noise.

You can build yourself a tiny gasoline powered generator and put it on your bike in a rack or somewhere, but it's a fair bit of DIY and it's still going to be noisy.

You can carry solar panels on a trailer, it's a lot of weight and if not designed right or you ride in windy conditions or lots of stops and starts or not riding in full sunlight on the panels, you'll probably use more power carrying it than you can get from it.


There are threads around here on doing all those things, some successfully, some not.


But what you can't do is gain more energy from your bike than you put into it, so you can't use it's motion to recharge your batteries without stopping the bike, and using more power to get it started again than you got out of stopping it.

 

[c0mpute]

It doesn't matter which way you do it.

If you take power from your forward motion or the motion of the motor, you are simply using up your battery faster.

You cannot recharge your battery from any source of electric power that is already moving the bike; it will use more battery than it recharges.

Even "regen braking" will only add charge by stopping the bike, and it takes more power to get it going again than you got by stopping it, so it can't be used for that either, unless you are on a downhill slope. Even then, it's more efficient to just coast down the hill and use your momentum to go back up the next one, or else again you end up using more power to go up the next hill than you got out of going down the previous one. If you have really long steep hills you could do it, but you still use more energy getting up the hill than you will get going back down it.


The only way you can recharge the batteries while the bike is moving is to use some other source of power than what is moving the bike.

You can use your pedals to directly run the generator, but it's very inefficient compared to just pedalling the wheel directly, as has been shown by others here.

You can use a gasoline powered generator on a trailer, but it's a lot of weight and noise.

You can build yourself a tiny gasoline powered generator and put it on your bike in a rack or somewhere, but it's a fair bit of DIY and it's still going to be noisy.

You can carry solar panels on a trailer, it's a lot of weight and if not designed right or you ride in windy conditions or lots of stops and starts or not riding in full sunlight on the panels, you'll probably use more power carrying it than you can get from it.


There are threads around here on doing all those things, some successfully, some not.


But what you can't do is gain more energy from your bike than you put into it, so you can't use it's motion to recharge your batteries without stopping the bike, and using more power to get it started again than you got out of stopping it.

I don't understand how you can use more electricity when the motors are not connected to each other by wires and the only form of connection is via a chain link to the motor acting as a generator that has capacitors or reverse diodes or something to stop the motor from running when connected to a second battery..

Concept. the generator would also be connected to one of the two flat batteries.. motor wont be using electricity to make electricity because we know that it is almost an impossibility..

Some of the videos i posted above show the fact that you can get 24v out of a 35v or 350watt mid drive geared motor by pedaling.. whats stopping one from producing 48v from speed on a 1000 watt motor instead without pedaling???

So generator is only connected by a chain like any other mid drive that uses the crank is connected... so the actual motor is the one running the bike as well as the generator at the same time.. hence a two chain system...
I understand what is being said here, though there are to many real videos that show the concept of actually being able to produce enough power to run a light bulb and even a food processor .. (if you think about it, lights and a food processor plug into a wall that produces between 220 to 240volts.. )

I have even seen a video of someone claiming to want something like 30 thousand euros or something like that for a bike that can go as fast as traffic and recharge while moving...(yes an E-Bike) it is just hard to believe that we as a community would be stuck on such a belief that we are restricted in what we can do with technology, its like everyone said man can not fly. it is impossible, and yet look at the wright brothers...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34r1xtbh_1k


I was actually looking for someone who might know where i could get a bracket made for the Yuba mundo to fit a mid drive to the position shown .. the front of the back wheel to begin with.. and then find where i could get a 3 ring freewheel crank to put the bike to replace the sram i have atm and to find out if the cyclone twin cog found on some of their motors, would fit a gng brushless motor and are cyclone and gng motors compatible with a conhismotor programmable controller?

Cheers and sorry to bother everyone with what people might think is a stupid idea or plan..

Taking everything into consideration though, and a great discussion on the matter. I am leaning more towards using a hub motor as a generator instead as you get more motion out of the wheel than you would with a mid drive connected to the chain..

https://www.electricbike.com/modified-hub-motor/

 

[dogman dan]

It's the laws of physics, dude. The motors are connected, one is working it's ass off turning the other. The one working makes some heat. then the one generating makes more heat. All that heat is your battery energy going bye bye.

You can't pull energy from one battery, run a motor turning a generator, and get more back. it will always be less. A lot less. You can recover some energy from stopping, or coasting down hills in regen, but again, its less than you started with. A lot less.

If what you wanted worked, every car would get 1000 miles per gallon, the washing machine would power your refrigerator, etc. but it doesn't.

There are bike hubs that are generators, low power, to run an Led light, or maybe even charge the phone. And there are pedal generators built out of regular bike hub motors. Useful in situations off grid, but only to put out enough watt hours to keep a house lit at night, charge a laptop, etc.

 

[c0mpute]

It is not possible to recharge the battery????
A self charging ebike??
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfEirTz3-Rk

 

[c0mpute]

It's the laws of physics, dude. The motors are connected, one is working it's ass off turning the other. The one working makes some heat. then the one generating makes more heat. All that heat is your battery energy going bye bye.

You can't pull energy from one battery, run a motor turning a generator, and get more back. it will always be less. A lot less. You can recover some energy from stopping, or coasting down hills in regen, but again, its less than you started with. A lot less.

If what you wanted worked, every car would get 1000 miles per gallon, the washing machine would power your refrigerator, etc. but it doesn't.

There are bike hubs that are generators, low power, to run an Led light, or maybe even charge the phone. And there are pedal generators built out of regular bike hub motors. Useful in situations off grid, but only to put out enough watt hours to keep a house lit at night, charge a laptop, etc.

You can't pull energy from one battery, run a motor turning a generator, and get more back.

I never said you could..The idea is that one motor is connected to another by a chain link only.. nothing more. .the second motor Re Generator is turning which has a double cog on it so it can connect the chain on the bike to pull it forward from the motor that is turning it...

Hence it will produce electricity none the less, no matter how much is coming out... The regen idea never entered my mind as it was out of the question for my soul purpose for this idea..

let me repeat this, no electricity is going into the generator.. the only energy that is going into the generator is in the form of an motor connected by chain link. pulling the generator and the bike forward at the same time...

Hence it would be connected to a second battery that is flat and would slowly recharge it while in acceleration mode, though i realize that, that option would not be as viable and that a hub motor would probably be the better way to go..

So all i need, is to find someone who could make a 3 ring freewheel crank, instead of a one two ring crank and a bracket for the one motor that i want to sit at the front of the back wheel so i can keep all my original gears.

Watching this ebike called the eRockit on youtube, makes me even more interested in this idea..
Cheers.. .

 

[nutnspecial]

Hi c0mpute, I applaud your optimism.

We sometimes forget to remember we understand still but a fraction about the natural world, evidenced perhaps at least somewhat by competing main bodies of work in classical and quantum physics. Or the fact we can identify maybe a trillionth of any one atom, which then fails to behave under classical laws anyway. Perhaps in some things we even know less than builders of the great pyramid, baalbek and other anchient worldwide monolithic structures, @ a similar era with evidence of hyperaccurate understanding of time and astronomy when the cosmology and physics they depended on was apparently SO very different than widely accepted or most theorized today.

However, you've been getting good advice here, and I don't think you'll be completely happy with the outcome of actual experimentation along your line of inquiry.

I'd recommend getting enough of an fundamental education to perform the experimentation, and try these things for yourself before equipping a bike in such a way, because what you're asking seems quite unrealistic based on common current understanding.

_____________
Here's perhaps another level up for this crowd, more likely (most) understood by the most experienced imo. Looking from a simply educative angle I find this pretty cool, in the sense of the level and willingness of experimentation, and perhaps also the fact I'm baffled by bullshit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK3JOlY0V8Y

 

[c0mpute]

However, you've been getting good advice here, and I don't think you'll be completely happy with the outcome of actual experimentation along your line of inquiry.

I'd recommend getting enough of an fundamental education to perform the experimentation, and try these things for yourself before equipping a bike in such a way, because what you're asking seems quite unrealistic based on common current understanding.

firstly thanks. I do understand everything and am taking in advice, I suppose the conversation did get into more of what the main idea was instead of what i was looking for. .which was parts to be able to do this "experiment" as you put it.

I have posted video after video showing that it could and can be done and i get the impression that everyone still does not believe it, which i can understand because new things always take time to comprehend that it is real and functional..

I really do appreciate all the information that has been given and forwarded to me. .it has been really helpful..
So I have only one question? What do you make of this ebike on youtube called the eRockit? it claims to recharge itself while pedaling and it has no throttle..

 

[SlowCo]

I think you might have discovered free perpetual motion maybe you could patent it... :lol:

To turn the generator it will cost (extra) mechanical (pedaling) and/or electrical (the driving motor) energy. But the resulting electrical energy produced by the generator is a lot less than the energy it cost to produce it because of the inefficiencies (mechanical and electrical). So as a system it looses/wastes energy.
It's a lot better to replace the extra weight of the generator with batteries.

 

[nutnspecial]

Re c0mpute, as far as I can tell, it is/was a pedalec e motorcycle, i'm guessing with fairly typical drive, battery, and regenerative braking. In no way does it appear to be moved by only pedal power- past the extent it's pedal motion acting like a throttle to engage the batteries and motor.

I didn't see claims of distance and speed vs input power, but would guess it's not less than a 10% loss from the input energy to it''s movement.

 

[c0mpute]

I didn't see claims of distance and speed vs input power, but would guess it's not less than a 10% loss from the input energy to it''s movement.

The eRockit, it recharges while you pedal, the more you pedal the faster it goes..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34r1xtbh_1k

Something different about laws?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HK3JOlY0V8Y

 

[Drunkskunk]

The eRockit, it recharges while you pedal, the more you pedal the faster it goes..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34r1xtbh_1k

Yes, but it doesn't give any meaningful recharge while you pedal. It is true that some power from his effort goes back to the battery, but it's an insignificant amount.

Also, for the reasons I already explained, it's wasting power. If Stefan Gulas's bike put the pedal power directly to the wheel instead, he could go further and faster than he could by his current scheme.

The ErockIT is something many engineers would use as an example of a dumb idea.

 

[c0mpute]

The eRockit, it recharges while you pedal, the more you pedal the faster it goes..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34r1xtbh_1k

Yes, but it doesn't give any meaningful recharge while you pedal. It is true that some power from his effort goes back to the battery, but it's an insignificant amount.

Also, for the reasons I already explained, it's wasting power. If Stefan Gulas's bike put the pedal power directly to the wheel instead, he could go further and faster than he could by his current scheme.

The ErockIT is something many engineers would use as an example of a dumb idea.

Something like this maybe?
I do also get what your saying..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfEirTz3-Rk

 

[SlowCo]

Something like this maybe?
I do also get what your saying..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfEirTz3-Rk

Yes, you've plugged that vid before of a nice mixture of a hub motor with a side motor and a generator. Is there a follow up video of it actually working? Because all it looks like is a non functional mix of parts...

But then again why am I feeding a troll?

 

[nutnspecial]

I do agree: that is an old video, and there's no evidence to be found anything became of the idea, or any real info provided to go anywhere with. There's been no evidence in this thread, and I'd hazzard a guess no evidence on this entire forum that an elaborate system cycling typical components will do much of anything but lower efficiency in fact.
I don't agree with the name calling of a stranger though. To a friend perhaps in jest, but for others why not just stick with helpfulness or nothing at all?