Land Speed Motorcycle

[InterestedinEVs]

That's impressive, too. We did 144.6mph with 61hp, no fairings, no clue what our Cd was in that configuration. Actually went faster at the Texas Mile in 2021, but had a tailwind. Crazy you can push those big fairings through the air like that.

I'm surprised Lighting hasn't done better than they have, given your numbers. They have a very similar drive system, no? We'll see what the new bike does, but the fairing on it looks fairly large.

 

[liveforphysics]

Thanks guys. That was a 96S4P pack and the bike now has a 50S pack of Enerdels in it. I'm building a 60S pack of 21700's for it as the Enerdels are getting a bit long in the tooth. Actually, there's only one module getting weak but the 2170's are lighter and will have more capacity (the bike is street legal and I use it a fair amount). BTW, it went 149 mph with the 50S pack, the difference between ~85 hp and 225!

Sounds like an amazing bike Frank.

Are you running Molicel P42B in the new pack?

 

[Frank]

Yes, those are the ones. 60S13P

 

[InterestedinEVs]

I wish I felt more comfortable with cylindricals. Would make some other projects of ours so much easier. What's your preferred assembly method?

 

[Frank]

I'm using a kWeld with the copper/nickel "sandwich" technique. I made a test pack last year for a friend's scooter replacing six gel cells with the P42a's and it worked out pretty well: much lighter with more capacity. The 60S pack is being made in four sub-pack groups to ease assembly. I'm working on the second sub-pack but haven't gotten to the assembly part yet, I have a decent concept but will be figuring final details out along the way. I typically use an Orion BMS.

The E-Busa pack won't have heating issues but I'm also thinking about another (roadrace) project where heating will be a consideration. I'm thinking active airflow (over the copper) will probably provide sufficient cooling but have also started investigating thermal interface materials.

 

[liveforphysics]

If you're after horsepower for a just a couple minutes, using a cylinder cell over a pouch means you're going to either make less than half the HP of the same weight in pouches, or you carry more than 2x the cell mass to have similar HP (but then you have more than double the riding range.)

 

[InterestedinEVs]

If you're after horsepower for a just a couple minutes, using a cylinder cell over a pouch means you're going to either make less than half the HP of the same weight in pouches, or you carry more than 2x the cell mass to have similar HP (but then you have more than double the riding range.)

For sure. Current cylindricals have no place in land speed racing. I had a commuter bike that would have greatly benefitted from a custom pack of, say, 25r's way back when.

 

[Frank]

Luke, one of the problems is availability of good pouch cells. At least I've been unable to find them (other than drag race cells which have very high specific power but limited energy). If you have any leads I'd much rather run those but when I started searching a year ago there wasn't a whole lot of trustworthy cells; some of the better known suppliers wouldn't answer emails or telephone calls. What I don't know enough about is possibly disassembling OEM packs to harvest cells for reconfiguration.

The Molicels will work for me in pavement LSR because the max current demand is only at the end of the run for a short period of time but I'd still prefer pouch cells. And the E-Busa is street legal and I use it fairly regularly.

 

[PaPaSteve]

Lightning Tachyon Nb Aims For Electric Speed Record

Sharing this article which showed up in the Adventure Rider news letter.

https://www.advrider.com/lightning-tachyon-nb-aims-for-electric-speed-record/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter-08-23-2022

 

[Frank]

You can buy off-the-shelf components to do that (approx. 400 hp required) and with the slippery bodywork it might even be a bit less. Personally, I've always been a bit suspicious of Voxan's records: they've never been forthcoming with any actual video or run data and the numbers they submitted are all over the place.

(edit: 400 hp on pavement, probably less on a longer course)

 

[liveforphysics]

Luke, one of the problems is availability of good pouch cells. At least I've been unable to find them (other than drag race cells which have very high specific power but limited energy). If you have any leads I'd much rather run those but when I started searching a year ago there wasn't a whole lot of trustworthy cells; some of the better known suppliers wouldn't answer emails or telephone calls. What I don't know enough about is possibly disassembling OEM packs to harvest cells for reconfiguration.

The Molicels will work for me in pavement LSR because the max current demand is only at the end of the run for a short period of time but I'd still prefer pouch cells. And the E-Busa is street legal and I use it fairly regularly.

You probably need to visit each factory and checkout the equipment and QC audit their processes to have a decent answer to your question. I do this for automotive pouch cell mfg's, but I've never been asked to do it for an uber high-C rate pouch maker yet.

 

[InterestedinEVs]

You can buy off-the-shelf components to do that (approx. 400 hp required) and with the slippery bodywork it might even be a bit less. Personally, I've always been a bit suspicious of Voxan's records: they've never been forthcoming with any actual video or run data and the numbers they submitted are all over the place.

(edit: 400 hp on pavement, probably less on a longer course)

The FIM certified Venturi's records, so it's definitely legitimate. I spoke with an FIM rep about the bike last year at BMST. As an aside, he didn't seem very impressed with our bike, haha. I just today saw it reported that they hit over 290mph peak on the 283mph record run. Really hoping they go to Bolivia and do 300mph. It seems well within the bike's capabilities given the density altitude difference.

 

[Frank]

I know the FIM certified them so they must be accurate but my issue with Voxan was that some of the short-distance speeds they submitted were so low that they didn't mesh with the longer distance speeds. Maybe they're going to play the "new record" game by starting out slow and eventually adding 10 mph each outing or something. I ran the numbers on published power specs and they definitely have the power to exceed 300 at Bolivia (assuming aero equivalent to a Hayabusa).

It's really a shame there was so much water at B-Ville this year. While I'm obviously a big fan of pavement racing (won't flood out!) I do look forward to seeing the speeds a longer run-up can offer. I hope it comes back next year.

Luke: thanks for your comments.

 

[PaPaSteve]

I know the FIM certified them so they must be accurate but my issue with Voxan was that some of the short-distance speeds they submitted were so low that they didn't mesh with the longer distance speeds. Maybe they're going to play the "new record" game by starting out slow and eventually adding 10 mph each outing or something. I ran the numbers on published power specs and they definitely have the power to exceed 300 at Bolivia (assuming aero equivalent to a Hayabusa).

Could the short distance speeds be a reflection of energy management ?
The only speed challenge racing experience I have is with human powered streamlined recumbents.
A human has limited power which must be regulated properly to attain the highest speed.
The trick (for me) is watching the power meter and hitting the marks at each mile marker saving enough for maximum effort at the timing traps.

Speed Championships
https://landercountytourism.com/whpsc

The best I've done (2006 / 2007)
61.88 MPH 200 meter sprint at Battle Mountain Nevada
43.28 miles for one hour distance at Casa Grande Arizona

Current Human Powered records
89.59 MPH 200 meter sprint
57.439 miles for one hour distance

 

[InterestedinEVs]

I always just assumed they were geared so tall that they weren't making great torque off the line. We've joked a bunch amongst the team that our bike beat the Voxan in the quarter, ha.

 

[InterestedinEVs]

Gearing up for the next event in a few weeks. Got some new powder coat!

Unfortunately, we've had a significant drivetrain setback. The Curtis 900A controller now has a hard 120V peak limit. We're running 126V and the old Curtis had no issues up to 130V. I'd really love that extra 6 volts...If anyone knows a person at Curtis who might can help, I'd really appreciate it.

 

[PaPaSteve]

Flight Systems have been responsive when needed (it's been a few years since making a purchase though)

https://shop.fsip.biz/en/content/home

 

[InterestedinEVs]

Flight Systems have been responsive when needed (it's been a few years since making a purchase though)

https://shop.fsip.biz/en/content/home

I'll give them a call, thanks!

 

[amberwolf]

For some good news, I was able to trick the Curtis software into using the Factory level, which provides battery current and battery power for logging.

For the few that may come along later and need to do this, could you post the procedure used?

 

[liveforphysics]

Gearing up for the Texas Mile in a few weeks. Got some new powder coat!

Unfortunately, we've had a significant drivetrain setback. The Curtis 900A controller now has a hard 120V peak limit. We're running 126V and the old Curtis had no issues up to 130V. I'd really love that extra 6 volts...If anyone knows a person at Curtis who might can help, I'd really appreciate it. We have an OEM programmer. Not sure if the Developer level will let us change it or not. I've not yet emailed or called them about this issue, but they've been non-responsive to all of my past inquiries so I'm not hopeful.

My current fix is to remove one 6s hobby pack per string and replace it with a 4s pack for 28s overall, then overcharge to ~4.25 to get our voltage up just a tad bit. Even so, we'll be down ~8hp on the top end, which is enormous in this game.

On top of this issue, the monitor refuses to show battery current. The old controller allowed us to log battery current and estimated battery power, but there's not even an option for it now. Super frustrating. We're going to resort to logging with my current clamp and Fluke 289 for the time being, but it'd be really nice to have it running in the Curtis software.

Beautiful bike Cole! Good luck in the Texas Mile!

 

[InterestedinEVs]

For the few that may come along later and need to do this, could you post the procedure used?

Sorry, I'm not super comfortable posting a guide. There's A LOT of information about programming Curtis controllers on google, though!

Beautiful bike Cole! Good luck in the Texas Mile!

Thank you sir!!

 

[InterestedinEVs]

First day of the event is tomorrow!

W were able to get a fix from Curtis and we're running full power! If there are any Curtis people here, thank you so much!!

With that, we should be able to take the event EV record. Weather isn't looking great for us with cooler temps and 4000ft+ of density altitude difference, but our sims say we're still in the running.

Check out our new livery!

 

[Frank]

Stunning! Best of luck.

Out of curiosity, what is the overhang of the bodywork past the rear tire?

 

[InterestedinEVs]

Thank you!

It's at the very limit of the rules, 14ish" if I remember correctly?

 

[nicobie]

Looking good!