Landspeed Record Attempt

[Seriousknot]

Hey ES, I was wondering if anybody here would be interested in being involved in a Landspeed record build? I have a friend who is a current record holder at Bonneville. I went to Bonneville for Speedweek in August 2012 and pit crewed on his current record attempt vehicle which is a Plymouth Superbird with a Dodge Viper drivetrain. There is plenty of room in the race trailer for a small project like an electric bicycle. The real cost would be building the vehicle and the $425.00 entry fee. I think the current record is something like 84 mph. We could build an aerodynamic, electric motorcycle with operational pedals. Since the Superbird was a new vehicle last year, I got to be directly involved in getting the car to pass the Tech inspection. I also have the contact info for the person in charge of Tech so I could consult with him on the safety design features during the build. Speed week is a really cool experience, I got to meet several celebrity race car drivers, one was Rod Millen the Pike's peak champ. I borrowed a piece of aluminum from him to modify the head restraint on the Superbird. With our entry fee we would be entitled to our own pit space, of course we would want to be next to the Superbird pit so we could access their resources such as tools and generators. The nearest lodging is in Wendover Nevada, a short distance away. There is also free camping if you are tough. My friend has complete chassis fabrication facilities. We live in Arkansas. So if any of this sounds interesting to you, let me know.

 

[www.recumbents.com]

What is the current Bonneville speed record for an electric bicycle? Salt flats are tough on bicycles because the salt is not really that hard. Fred Markham did a speed attempt at the salt flats with a human powered streamliner and had problems with the fairing getting filled with salt. Maybe with the wider high speed motorcycle tires you would be ok.

-Warren

 

[Doctorbass]

What is the current Bonneville speed record for an electric bicycle? Salt flats are tough on bicycles because the salt is not really that hard. Fred Markham did a speed attempt at the salt flats with a human powered streamliner and had problems with the fairing getting filled with salt. Maybe with the wider high speed motorcycle tires you would be ok.

-Warren

I would love to do 113km/h with my Giant DH comp on the salt Flats !! Unfortunatly i can not afford that kind of trip and $$$ organisation to make an attempt at Bonneville.

I think the last recorded bicycle on teh Salt Flat was Marcus Hays with 64.848mph a Bonneville September 7th, 2007

BUT... it was not a Bicycle!!! it was no pedal and just custom made frame, fre lead acid battery and a mars motor!

In 2009, on the non salt flat i did my 94.3km/h with a wrong programmed controller set to 75% max current
( two last photos)

Sewriously that bike i made in 2009 could do easy 130-140kmh with a steering damper and a 5400 with 144V kelly controller and few nanotech!

Doc

 

[Farfle]

We had a datalogged 77mph on the bike we raced at riverside, and on longer stretches it has hit 84mph. If geared differently, it would have the horsepower to get to 90 I bet. Too bad I pulled the pedals

 

[Seriousknot]

Doc I know your bike could easily set the record and you could be in the books for 2013. How far are you from Wendover Utah? I am working on getting some funding for an attempt in August. I am open to any collaboration with ES members. Farfle where are you located? I go through Oklahoma and Colorado on the way to Bonneville. Pedals are not hard to put back on. One word of warning though....Speedweek is very addictive, if you go once, you will want to go again and again. And here is a secret about Landspeed on salt. Weight is not your enemy it is your ally. The salt is very wet and slippery, fenders are a must.

 

[skyungjae]

I wonder how a modified hanebrink hustler x5 would do out on the flats.

 

[Doctorbass]

Doc I know your bike could easily set the record and you could be in the books for 2013. How far are you from Wendover Utah? quote]


Hmm i'm at 4000km ( living in Canada, Quebec city)

Not at the door :lol:

skyungjae , I think my 5302 (X5) at ambiant and and 150A controller could so some serious speed. I have to forget about my 5403 wich have a lower KV.. actually twice lower!

The powerband of the 5302 on a 20" wheel is very impressive. and it stay cold at 250A...but controller need watercooling then...

Doc

 

[skyungjae]

Doc I know your bike could easily set the record and you could be in the books for 2013. How far are you from Wendover Utah? quote]


Hmm i'm at 4000km ( living in Canada, Quebec city)

Not at the door :lol:

skyungjae , I think my 5302 (X5) at ambiant and and 150A controller could so some serious speed. I have to forget about my 5403 wich have a lower KV.. actually twice lower!

The powerband of the 5302 on a 20" wheel is very impressive. and it stay cold at 250A...but controller need watercooling then...

Doc

Y'all should create a team and get a kickstarter account going. :wink:

 

[Seriousknot]

Kickstarter.....yes. Rewards for the contributors could be direct involvement in the pits as well as getting in the books as participants. Controller could have forced air cooling. The track is only five miles long, the run would last for less than 4 minutes. 4000 km is not that far. Kickstarter account, I have already begun one. I can get funding from other sources as well perhaps. Time is wasting...............

 

[Kingfish]

SK, would love to collab but can't this year; perhaps next. I've been dreaming of Bonneville since I joined ES.
Best I can do is subscribe

Doctorbass, I pin my hopes that you can make it! 8)

FTW, KF

 

[Doctorbass]

I would really like too!

Would just need to find enough sponsor to cover all the fee and the rest would become a piece of cake.

I still have the ebike frame of my 2009 record in the ched, sleeping, until a new even could happen

Hub or not.. that would be the question.... X5 are great but why not push the limit further .... maybe a midrive using a simple brushed motor like the agni would be enough.... I have 3 agni 95R in my lab.. I guess that using few nanotech Grade A for 20s1p, my 600A 90V Kelly and the agni and a simple 420 chain woudl be ok for 30kW burst.. yeah.. 30kW.. that's enough for 100mph on an ebike with fairing :wink: ... and a 3 stage gear transmission for the pedal to be able to still pedal at 100mph and bring maybe more 400Watts :lol:

Doc

 

[ohzee]

Sounds exciting sub'd.

 

[John in CR]

Seriousknot,

I'll see if my son is interested in collaborating. He's down in Baton Rouge, so not terribly far, and we can bring to the table hubmotors capable of the rpms necessary for posting a good number. Maybe we could have a hubmotor powered category established and have something that will stick for a while.

Is 84mph really the number? My SuperV will get close or exceed that as soon as I install the controllers I just got in from Zombiess, even with no aero treatments and a beached whale riding the ebike.

John

 

[skyungjae]

Sweet jesus, how long can it sustain those speeds?

 

[Seriousknot]

John, that sounds good, I am in New Orleans all the time. Tell your son to PM me. Kingfish don't worry if this works out we'll be going every year. My friends here in Arkansas go every year and sometimes twice, including "The World of Speed" event. Doc, I am sure we can find someone to cover the entry fee.

 

[John in CR]

Sweet jesus, how long can it sustain those speeds?

As my bike sits with sufficient road I could run it at WOT at 65mph for as long as the battery lasts. Since I've only run it at 20s vs the 32s I plan with the new controllers, it's impossible to predict how long at significantly higher speeds. That's because me on my bike isn't a very aerodynamic combination. Despite being lower and getting in the best tuck I can muster, I'm about as aerodynamic as the MTB with touring tires in a normal riding position in this power calculator http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm. I'm able to reasonably make that comparison using the calculator and comparing it to known weight and power requirements for speeds on flat road and known grades of hills.

It takes almost 9000W at my bike's top speed of 65mph without heat issues. With no change in aerodynamics moving up from 65mph max to 85mph would require 20kw , but who would go to Bonneville to better a record by 1 mph? I have little doubt the hubmotor I use is capable of that kind of power and more at high voltage, but obviously aerodynamics has to be the number 1 priority. With good aero simply use a larger wheel to surpass the existing number at 20-24s, and then go to higher voltage and current on subsequent runs to establish a more difficult to reach number.

My only real issue is with the salt, because it plays hell with the electrical systems of the gassers, and from what I gather it's not a great riding surface. It means no simple ventilation approach for cooling, so despite a short few minute run, it would be inadvisable to explore the maximum possible power output of the motor. People don't seem to get that about electric motors, so the motors fail when they try anything more short duration bursts on a dyno. The inside of our motors can't take high temps, and max power possible occurs at 50% efficiency. You start generating tens of kw inside an electric motor and stuff gets too hot in a hurry. Find saturation and then stay away from it. You can only use those kinds of current levels if they're restricted to few second bursts, and that will do you no good at Bonneville.

What we should really do is start our own even at Battle Mountain. Maybe someone could sweet talk the HPV guys into tying into their event, though that's not likely. Battle Mountain is a far better location for us than the salt flats.

John

 

[John in CR]

John, that sounds good, I am in New Orleans all the time. Tell your son to PM me. Kingfish don't worry if this works out we'll be going every year. My friends here in Arkansas go every year and sometimes twice, including "The World of Speed" event. Doc, I am sure we can find someone to cover the entry fee.

Find out the rules for the class and let me know. With or without my son, who has his own full plate, I'd be very interested in some level of sponsorship as long as we're talking about a serious attempt. At a minimum I've got the drive system covered to easily surpass 84mph, along with solar charging that can be part of your shelter from the sun.

 

[neptronix]

If anyone needs some guidance in the area or even just a place to crash, do hit me up. The salt flats are next door to me.

 

[John in CR]

If anyone needs some guidance in the area or even just a place to crash, do hit me up. The salt flats are next door to me.

In that case Neptronix, you need to have a bike there too. Just remember to always carry some extra water when you're out on the salt doing test runs when no one is there. What's riding on the salt like? Does it seem like a reasonable surface to go fast on 2 wheels?

 

[Kingfish]

I like the Battle Mountain option. Makes for a great alternate or perhaps pre-trial venue. Good idea there

John in CR, what do you have for aero now? Do you have a photo of your candidate? Same question to DocB

Maybe together we can solve part of that problem with little expense.
~KF

 

[skyungjae]

http://www.blm.gov/ut/st/en/fo/salt_lake/recreation/bonneville_salt_flats/events_at_bonneville.html

Would the ES team be registering with one of these existing organizations or would a separate permit be in order?

 

[www.recumbents.com]

HPV racers co-exist with electric racers pretty well. We did a record event with the electrathon guys at the Ford track in Michigan several years ago. Here's last years Battle Mountain site: http://recumbents.com/wisil/whpsc2012/speedchallenge.htm

You can find Al Krause's email address there, he is the guy to contact to see if it's possible. It's a flat, 4 mile electronically timed course. HPVs have gone as fast as 82.8 MPH. I went 64 MPH...

-Warren.

 

[John in CR]

HPV racers co-exist with electric racers pretty well. We did a record event with the electrathon guys at the Ford track in Michigan several years ago. Here's last years Battle Mountain site: http://recumbents.com/wisil/whpsc2012/speedchallenge.htm

You can find Al Krause's email address there, he is the guy to contact to see if it's possible. It's a flat, 4 mile electronically timed course. HPVs have gone as fast as 82.8 MPH. I went 64 MPH...

-Warren.

I bet if we included a legal by federal standards as a bicycle with human + electric that the idea of running with ebikes would be more palatable. ie how fast can a human plus 750W of electric go? You may be just the person for that bike.

 

[John in CR]

John in CR, what do you have for aero now?

KF,
All I have is high power high efficiency hubbies that are also capable of high rpm as my contribution toward a team effort. I'd need to know rule to qualify as an electric bike to avoid being lumped in with electric motorcycles.

 

[Farfle]

If you need a frame, this summer ill have some free time...