Mean Well power supply problem

[striider]

I bought a lot of 3 S-320's from ebay. They all powered up and output the correct voltage, and adjust as expected, so they seem to be functional as advertised.

I have tried hooking them up singly, hooked them to the battery, and they all seem to hit peak wattage then drop off to nothing over and over. It seems as if they aren't sensing a load somehow. I have tried hooking them to both the BMS side of the battery and the output side. Same symptoms.

I don't know how to describe it any better, so this seems to be the most accurate way to show you.

Here is a video documenting my symptoms. https://youtu.be/2Sy63XWzxOw

Thanks, you guys rock!

Edit: When I connect the BMS/battery I can hear them instantly go into "protect" mode. It is like a quick faint buzzing over and over. Tried the toaster trick suggested in another post, and sure enough, a 110v toaster heats up fine and I can hear the faint buzzing from each of the chargers when they kick on and stay on. So why in the world would they not stay on when hooked to my battery???

 

[amberwolf]

They probably don't have current limiting per-se, but instead have current limit protection, which just shuts them off. They may then turn back on, detect too high a current, and shut off, and cycle like that.

You could build one of Fechter's mini meanwell limiting boards to fix that; there's a thread by that name if you want to try.

 

[nutnspecial]

So that's the hiccup mode I've read about! I was really wondering what was going on there.
Op, the hrp's from tesla work well if you don't end up limiting the current on the s/se models. Or I gotta say (as a newb) the gophert is the neatest device my electronically retarded hands have been on.

 

[striider]

Yeah that seems about right...the current flows full bore for a second then bam, it cuts off. I wonder if I could somehow phase out a dummy load and get it to gently phase over to battery. Now I know why these were only 50 bucks for three!

 

[Ykick]

320's are hiccup mode OCP (over current protection). You can manually tweak the voltage adjust to minimize it but if bulk charging batteries that way you'll need to re-tweak the voltage setting a few times during the charge.

I use these 320's either with a Fetcher mini-limiter circuit or sometimes in series with another current regulated supply/charger when I'm going for higher voltages.

 

[striider]

Ykick- you nailed it again. I tried tweaking voltage down and they work individually. Parallel will not work without current limiting, I tried and it all fails to one power supply at a time.

Here are the results: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeAf1pqTNAs

Yeah, I know my workbench is a mess. I do a lot of things, ebikes is only one...and I really need to clean it up.

 

[striider]

Would this work? Putting a new 575 ohm resistor in R33? http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/e-bent/meanwell/default.htm

6.5 amps out of each in parallel would be splendid.

 

[nutnspecial]

There's some huge threads on mw's and I remember NeilP was one of the major participants. I think either a resistor or another trimpot can be used (moved external too). R33 sounds like the target though. Maybe just pm him for concrete details?

 

[Ykick]

Mod doesn't apply, S-350's are very different than S-320's. And there's also the NE-350 which throws another variation into the pile.

320 you can tie a limiter to the sense wire which is behind the voltage trim pot to regulate current over a wider range than the standard hiccup mode provides.

For 5-10A range I've learned 'better off just buying an Alloy Charger with the specs you want rather than dicking around with all of this MW modding. Parallel connections rarely seem to work out.

But series connection's something you can take advantage of with MW's and other SMPS (switch mode power supplies). For example 4qty 12-15V MW's in series should provide about 20A, if I'm not mistaken? And you would only need one or two of those current limited in order to control the series string.

 

[DrkAngel]

IIRC S-320 series has no current regulation, faults and must be reset.
Confirm by lowering output voltage to barely above battery voltage.
Connect to battery.
Monitor amps while turning up voltage, should fault near 7Amp.

Solution? Edit! - will likely produce fault, better solution posted later
Lower and match voltages to precisely (must be equal!) 9V below desired voltage.
Run 3p in series with 1 Genuine MeanWell S-150-12 set to 9V, will output a properly regulated ~16A. (Amps adjustable see- S-150-12 link)

See - S-320-xx info - but no usable mods!
S-150-12

Meanwell S-150 series and S-350 series are fully modable and documented - MeanWells

MeanWell S-150-12 MegaMod

Updated below to address - See Knighty post below-next

 

[knighty]

a quick note for anyone using multiple unregulated supplies and then 1 current limiting supply...

make sure the current limiting supply has enough voltage range to cover you from a flat battery to fully charged


without thinking I bought 8 server supplies and a 4v 50amp meanwell.... figuring I could use the meanwell for current limiting...

which would work great... but my 98v charged pack is under 88v flat

and 8 x 12v server PSUs is 96v

so any time the pack was under 96v, the meanwell did nothing and the server supplies tried to put 40amps into the pack and kept kicking out on over current protection


fixed it with 1 less server psu and a higher voltage meanwell


all defunct now with an addapto doing the charging

 

[DrkAngel]

IIRC S-320 series has no current regulation, faults and must be reset.
Confirm by lowering output voltage to barely above battery voltage.
Connect to battery.
Monitor amps while turning up voltage, should fault near 7Amp.

Solution?
Lower and match voltages to precisely (must be equal!) 9V below desired voltage.
Run 3p in series with 1 Genuine MeanWell S-150-12 set to 9V, will output a properly regulated ~16A. (Amps adjustable see- S-150-12 link)

See - S-320-xx info - but no usable mods!
S-150-12

Meanwell S-150 series and S-350 series are fully modable and documented - MeanWells

MeanWell S-150-12 MegaMod

Better solution - to accommodate greater charge amps-range ...
150w 12V MeanWell at 16A will sag voltage enough to create fault condition.
3p S-320@ -14V
regulated by
S-350-12 @ 14V - 17.5A
Should be a better build

 

[striider]

Better solution - to accommodate greater charge amps-range ...
150w 12V MeanWell at 16A will sag voltage enough to create fault condition.
3p S-320@ -14V
regulated by
S-350-12 @ 14V - 17.5A
Should be a better build

DrkAngel, thanks!

If I understand correctly, you are saying to run 4 power supplies and set voltage on each to 14v with regulation by S-350-12. Makes sense, as that's 52V, but doesn't quite fit my situation.

I already own (3) S-320's that are all 48 volts,so they won't adjust down to 14V. Also, I am looking to carry a max of 2 bolted together for on the road fast charging. I have no need to charge this quickly at home.

Could I follow this same concept with one of my S-320's regulated by a NES-350-48? I don't think so since the voltage would have to be 26 per piece and they don't adjust that low, right?

If this won't work, maybe I will just return these S-320's and get 2 NES-350-48.

 

[DrkAngel]

150w 12V MeanWell at 16A will sag voltage enough to create fault condition.

Better solution - to accommodate greater charge amps-range ...
3p S-320@ -(minus)14V
regulated by
S-350-12 @ 14V - 17.5A
Should be a better build

DrkAngel, thanks!

If I understand correctly, you are saying to run 4 power supplies and set voltage on each to 14v with regulation by S-350-12. Makes sense, as that's 52V, but doesn't quite fit my situation.

I already own (3) S-320's that are all 48 volts,so they won't adjust down to 14V. Also, I am looking to carry a max of 2 bolted together for on the road fast charging. I have no need to charge this quickly at home.

Could I follow this same concept with one of my S-320's regulated by a NES-350-48? I don't think so since the voltage would have to be 26 per piece and they don't adjust that low, right?

If this won't work, maybe I will just return these S-320's and get 2 NES-350-48.

Sorry, I sometimes use a concise ... "shorthand", but ...

No, run 3 S-320's in parallel, set to 14V below desired voltage and supplement-regulate (in series) with the additional 14V voltage and mod for ≤20A from the MeanWell S-350-12.
I could be more specific and clear ... but you never stated the charge voltage you are trying to attain!
(EG 13s Li-ion = 40.6V from each (3 x 40.6V <6.66A in parallel) S-320's + 14V <20A from S-350 = 54.6V 15-20A?-R33 regulation mod variable, lower aids cooling-durability) = 54.6V 20A charger

2 S-320-48 and S-150-12 @ 14-15V 10A would work nicely also ... S-150 has smoother current regulation than S-350! = 54.6V 10A charger

Review notes on electrical isolation when running PS "in series"!

S-150 series and S-350 series are the 2 known modable types ... necessary current mods documented in supplied links.
None of the SE-xxx or NES-xxx have documented modability or even the S-240 or S-320 series!

 

[DrkAngel]

run 3 S-320's in parallel, set to 14V below desired voltage and supplement-regulate (in series) with the additional 14V voltage and mod for ≤21A from the MeanWell S-350-12.
I could be more specific and clear ... but you never stated the charge voltage you are trying to attain! (EG 13s Li-ion = 40.6V from each (3 x 40.6V <7A in parallel) S-320's + 14V <21A from S-350 = 54.6V 15-21A?-R33 regulation mod variable, lower aids cooling-durability) = 54.6V 21A charger

2 S-320-48 and S-150-12 @ 14-15V 10A would work nicely also ... S-150 has smoother current regulation than S-350! = 54.6V 10A charger

Review notes on electrical isolation when running PS "in series"!

S-150 and S-350 Series seem to fault when voltage reduced to <50% of oem rating.
S-150 12 faults near 6V etc.
Above example
"2 S-320-48 and S-150-12 @ 14-15V 10A = 54.6V 10A charger" ...
13s x 4.2V = 54.6V - 40.6V + 14V "Full"
13s x 3.6V = 46.8V - 40.6V + 6.2V "Empty" --- Stays ~above 6V so will operate properly throughout charge cycle

S-320's 1V lower (39.6V) and S-150 1V higher (15V) for deeper discharge or better "fault margin"

 

[striider]

Ok, I think I follow you now, and I had read your S-150 mod before, but now I have a MUCH better understanding what you were doing. Thank you for clarifying.

That is still more of a bench setup than mobile though, but that is my issue/fault, of course.

So now all I am missing is a S-150-12 and some resistors or pots lol.

 

[DrkAngel]

What are you trying to charge?
Charge voltage?
LI-ion, LiPo, LiFePO4?
Maximum mfg rated-recommended charge rate?
Pack rated voltage and Ah?

 

[striider]

48v 25AH LiFiPo4 coming, but currently I am pushing the (BMS) limits of this Li-Ion:

Similar BMS documentation shows 15 amps capability I am aiming for ~10 amps.

 

[DrkAngel]

Note 5A charge limit.
Investigate recommended charge rate for new pack.
Charge via BMS bypass might nearly double reasonable charge rate. ... ? - monitor carefully!

Normal-typical Li-ion 18650 cells are nearly universally recommended as maximum .5C charge rate.

So, with this pack, when new, a charger of 10A if BMS bypassed for partial charge.
If pack is somewhat degraded ...
Genuine MeanWell S-350-48 might be ideal.
350w / 54.6V = 6.41A regulated charger, in one unit!

 

[striider]

Well, that's the funny thing, I found the exact same BMS rated differently individually on aliexpress - 15 amps.

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/48V-30A-13S-BMS-used-for-lithium-ion-battery-assembly/1250293246.html?spm=2114.32010308.4.53.3z2zfU

Hey, here is another factor: I also have a HLG-320H-54A that I got for 6 amp charging on the road. It has adjustable current AND voltage. Works great, but now I wondering if it could work in series with one of these S-320. I think I know the answer, nope, as they won't adjust down below 54v collectively.

 

[DrkAngel]

One of my threads ... somewhere, will try to find and post link, explains a method of running regulated and unregulated power supplies in parallel.

Not what I was looking for ... but similar. - Bulk + Balance Charger!

"Using a large capacity bulk charger in conjunction with a balance charger
Many use a larger - cheaper bulk charger to quickly charge their batteries.
Others, for convenience or safety reasons, use a balance charger.

I say "why not use both, at the same time?"
If you set the bulk charger to a slightly lower voltage and add a blocking-directional diode, it can be run paralleled with a balance charger!

eg. Initial charging will use the full 7A of the bulk charger and the full 3A of the balance charger.
When voltage drops to the bulk chargers set limit it will cease contribution and the charging, and balancing, will be solely handled by the balance charger. (Diode is to isolate the bulk charger, preventing voltage feedback.)

This, effectively will give you a 10A balance charger for the cost of a 3A balance charger, a 7A bulk charger and a < 50¢ diode."

Please note:
This method is hypothetical and will vary greatly with different components and applications.

Paralleling a regulated PS with an unregulated PS to create an equivalent regulated PS, for charging, of combined amperage.

With battery near empty ... (usable or recommended empty ~37V)
1. Set desired voltage then attach Amp regulated PS and note voltage sag
2. Add blocking-directional diode to unregulated PS (add Amp meter, for initial adjustment)
3. Set unregulated PS voltage to ~same "sagged" voltage as regulated, power on and additionally attach to battery
(When initially attached, will output 0 Amps and diode should prevent any voltage backwash)
4. Adjust voltage, (do not exceed final charge voltage!!!), of unregulated PS upwards until amp output is at its limit, or desired output (leave safety margin!)
5 Temporarily disconnect and confirm output voltage is safely below final charge voltage!
To use
You should always engage regulated PS 1st! - disengage last! (or unregulated PS will draw too many amps and fault)

You now have a much more powerful charger that only adds charge during the previous CC portion of the charge cycle.
Most useful for quick "pump ups" when battery is low.
While this can greatly speed up the CC (Constant Current) portion of the charge cycle ... it will not speed up the "Stage 2" CV (Constant Voltage) portion of the charge cycle.
(Some CC portion of charge is converted to CV, but at a higher Amp rate)

Warnings:
Check with manufacturer for maximum charge current of battery and BMS! (might want to bypass BMS with unregulated PS?)
Ensure no charger will exceed final charge voltage!
Monitor charging to ensure no problems, heat etc.
Rig is calibrated for only the pack it was set up on! Should be re-calibrated periodically to accommodate normal battery deterioration

 

[dnmun]

if you have a power supply or charger which has current limiting then you can use it in series with the meanwell power supplies with no current regulation. that will allow the power supplies to run at then normal output voltage and the charger would adjust the voltage level to match the voltage of the battery being charged.

for 13S of limno2 like that then use 54.6V for the final voltage to balance the pack under the BMS.

 

[DrkAngel]

[text sequestered by moderator pending review]

 

[striider]

I like this idea:
Paralleling a regulated PS with an unregulated PS to create an equivalent regulated PS, for charging, of combined amperage.

Would these 3 of these diodes soldered together in parallel be suitable to put into my "boost cable" from the S-320 to the HLG-320H-54A or is there a better choice? I am a network guy, not an EE, and a search about calculating such things was inconclusive.

 

[DrkAngel]

I like this idea:
"Paralleling a regulated PS with an unregulated PS to create an equivalent regulated PS, for charging, of combined amperage."

Would these 3 of these diodes soldered together in parallel be suitable to put into my "boost cable" from the S-320 to the HLG-320H-54A or is there a better choice? I am a network guy, not an EE, and a search about calculating such things was inconclusive.

Recommend ≤5.5A PS outputs @ 54.6V, (running at <100% of rated generally better for longevity)
Running 1 S-320-48 in parallel with your HLG-320H-54A could give you an initial 11A charge rate.

(Tuning multiple S-320 in parallel with HLG-320H-54A might be "touchy"-difficult to get exactly proper)
But, that being said ...
Running 2 S-320-48 in parallel with your HLG-320H-54A could give you a 16.5A charge rate.
Running 3 S-320-48 in parallel with your HLG-320H-54A could give you a 22A charge rate.