I have Electrical Gremlins! please help!

[MarkJohnston]

Hello,

I've been recently having a lot of INTERMITTENT issues with my bike. It all started with my controller when I shorted it. Now the hall sensor only works INTERMITTENTLY. When the hall sensor is plugged in I will get voltage/wattage drops. Suddenly the bike will jerk (best way I can describe it, like regen but I don't have that). unplugging hall sensor seems to work but now I have noticed new issues.

I noticed my batteries are discharging UNEVENLY. I have two hooked up in parallel. They only discharge UNEVENLY INTERMITTENTLY. They only do it sometimes. I smelled burning coming from inside the battery CASE. I opened it to find the Fuse plastic on the DISCHARGE side completely melted, and the plastic housing BURNT. However the FUSE still works. Oddly enough it seems. I still replaced the fuse and tried the battery again and it discharged EVENLY this time. Knock on wood that fixed it. The issues is I have two other batteries of the SAME MAKE AND MODEL, and they also do the same thing. Sometimes they DON't discharge, also sometimes they don't CHARGE EITHER, or don't reach nearly full charge and cut off early...

What's going on here ebike wizards? I have some ideas but I first want to hear what you guys have to say just so there is not bias because of what I think is the problem.

UPDATE:

Ok so I've read all the answers so far. Here is maybe why I am experiencing the issues.

1) The controller was shorted out and is affecting wattage and output. It could be causing SURGES in the electrical system causing the LEDs to be damaged (hooked up straight to battery no fuse). REad above about how the controller works better without the hall sensor. Sometimes it still cuts out there(interference from a radar tower maybe? It always cut out in the same spot on my commute or maybe it's just a sharp turn that throws off the sensors.)

2) the batteries are getting old and the BMS is old or damaged. IT's not giving the right commands to the battery. I did short out the battery a couple times I think.

3) A lot of the wires in the Parralel wiring harness that I made have lots of broken strands under the electrical tape. There is mechanical stress on the wires they are constantly being bumped and pushed on. This is where they are soldered to the connector. The solder has come loose many times so I Carry multiple harnesses.

4) I use cheap chinese chargers that I got for $10 YEARS ago. I've done hundreds of charges on them. Maybe using those chargers over time has ruined the batteries? I wonder. I just didn't know how expensive ebikes could be. I just wanted one. I didn't think long term.

 

[MarkJohnston]

Oh yeah and scratch the part about the not charging. They DO charge but sometimes they don't reach a full charge when they should. It's like they get cutoff. Super weird. Not sure what is going on.

 

[floydr]

Not a electrical or ebike wizzard but more info is needed: type of battery, nominal voltage of battery packs, Pictures of the battery pack esepically the fuse would help. stop using the batteries until you determine what is wrong.
Determine where the short is.
I would start by tracing wiring making sure for shorts. it could be a spot that only touches the frame of the bike intermittently.
later floyd

 

[E-HP]

Oh yeah and scratch the part about the not charging. They DO charge but sometimes they don't reach a full charge when they should. It's like they get cutoff. Super weird. Not sure what is going on.

Can you describe what you mean by the two packs are parallel? It they are electrically paralleled, then the will both always remain at the same voltage, and would discharge proportionally. Are you using some sort of device (diodes, etc.) to manage the "parallel" connection?

 

[AGS]

Is your dual battery module working correctly? If it is malfunctioning the battery with the higher charge may be charging up the other battery too quickly which could overload the bms and cells In both batteries.

This would explain the melted fuseholder in your battery. It looks like it was being charged too quickly by the other battery and the dual battery module wasn’t either limiting or preventing the charging current.

Some modules switch between the two batteries and some cleverer modules use both batteries simultaneously and charge one from the other, but these modules need batteries of the same voltage unlike the switching modules.

 

[E-HP]

Is your dual battery module working correctly? If it is malfunctioning the battery with the higher charge may be charging up the other battery too quickly which could overload the bms and cells In both batteries.

This would explain the melted fuseholder in your battery. It looks like it was being charged too quickly by the other battery and the dual battery module wasn’t either limiting or preventing the charging current.

Some modules switch between the two batteries and some cleverer modules use both batteries simultaneously and charge one from the other, but these modules need batteries of the same voltage unlike the switching modules.

Sounds like a module that's supposed to make it safer to operate with two batteries creates a bigger safety concern when it malfunctions.

 

[AGS]

I was diplomatically enquiring if the op has fitted a module or just connected the two batteries directly in parallel. It’s very dangerous not to fit a module because the batteries can explode.

 

[MarkJohnston]

I was diplomatically enquiring if the op has fitted a module or just connected the two batteries directly in parallel. It’s very dangerous not to fit a module because the batteries can explode.

Yeah. No module. I've been doing this for years FYI. I've racked up thousands of miles. They're two of exactly the same battery. Also my LED headlight burned out at 500 hours of service. Its connected direct to battery. The headlamp should've lasted at least 5000 hours, but I did let it over heat and get wet. It did last a couple years that $8 headlamp. The chip shortage putv them out of business. Should I connect a fuse inline with the new light? Its a light $20

 

[E-HP]

Yeah. No module. I've been doing this for years FYI. I've racked up thousands of miles. They're two of exactly the same battery. Also my LED headlight burned out at 500 hours of service. Its connected direct to battery. The headlamp should've lasted at least 5000 hours, but I did let it over heat and get wet. It did last a couple years that $8 headlamp. The chip shortage putv them out of business. Should I connect a fuse inline with the new light? Its a light $20

Can you describe what discharging unevenly means?

 

[MarkJohnston]

Can you describe what discharging unevenly means?

I mean by that I will have the two batteries equally charged to a .10th of a volt. I will hook them up in parallel and go ride the bike. I will notice while riding that there is less amperage because one of the two batteries is not out putting anything. When I go back to look at the voltages one of the batteries will have DRAINED slightly and the other will be very warm and have way less voltage.

 

[E-HP]

I mean by that I will have the two batteries equally charged to a .10th of a volt. I will hook them up in parallel and go ride the bike. I will notice while riding that there is less amperage because one of the two batteries is not out putting anything. When I go back to look at the voltages one of the batteries will have DRAINED slightly and the other will be very warm and have way less voltage.

So you disconnect the batteries from each other and they have different voltages?

Sound like a battery fire may be in your future unless you take care of the bad battery.

 

[MarkJohnston]

So you disconnect the batteries from each other and they have different voltages?

Sound like a battery fire may be in your future unless you take care of the bad

IT's probably fine lol. Worst case scenario I'll jump off or be quick enough to rip the battery out and throw it on the road to burn itself out(get it while it's smoking. ) You guys give advice that's too cautious. I would never have had the ebike journey I have if I was at all cautious lol.

I charge the batteries inside my oven. I really should get a chemical fire blanket though lol.

I am just not good at building batteries. It's confusing, and dangerous. But I am watching youtube videos about how to do it. I know someone who almost burned down an apartment complex tinkering with batteries. I kind of have a back yard so I guess I can do it outside.

 

[MarkJohnston]

I've updated the thread at the top. Check it out if you please.

 

[tomjasz]

What's going on here ebike wizards?

Running parallel isn’t worth the time amped/or energy

 

[MarkJohnston]

Running parallel isn’t worth the time amped/or energy

I get that. Others have said different but I am inclined to agree with you. The issue is making one huge battery would be hard and also getting a chassis to bear the weight of such a large battery. It would need a lot of modificatio, fab, carpentry, welding, electrical work. I don't have friends like that. I wish. I would like to build an actuall electric motorcycle that could go 300 MPH and have a 300 mile range, but I thats a pipe dream and not what this forum is about

 

[Two4Seven SuprDan]

i would definitely do something about your wiring situation, and then check the batteries and make sure its not a wire preventing the even discharging of current from both packs. melty wires in the harness is not risk management and would definitely cause all sorts of anything you can imagine to not work the way it should.

 

[99t4]

3) A lot of the wires in the Parralel wiring harness that I made have lots of broken strands under the electrical tape. There is mechanical stress on the wires they are constantly being bumped and pushed on. This is where they are soldered to the connector. The solder has come loose many times so I Carry multiple harnesses.

Hmmm quite the puzzler but this janky wiring harness may be at least part of the problem. In my experience, INTERMITTENT problems are most often caused by wiring/connector faults. Why not get that cleaned up and see if that has some positive effect? What's up with the solder coming loose? That's not a good sign under any circumstance. What's causing that? Hope you didn't learn your soldering technique from latecurtis.

Edited to add: Parallel batteries are not an inherently dangerous setup if they are engineered and used intelligently.

 

[tomjasz]

engineered and used intelligently.

That's a big caveat IME.

 

[Blacklite]

Slightly OT but this thread is giving me strong memories of LateCurtis... Those that have been on this board for a while will remember.
I think the "A lot of the wires in the Parralel wiring harness that I made have lots of broken strands under the electrical tape" and the "solder has come loose many times so I Carry multiple harnesses" is what's done it.

 

[MarkJohnston]

Slightly OT but this thread is giving me strong memories of LateCurtis... Those that have been on this board for a while will remember.
I think the "A lot of the wires in the Parralel wiring harness that I made have lots of broken strands under the electrical tape" and the "solder has come loose many times so I Carry multiple harnesses" is what's done it.

OK...

I just work with what I have. I.dont have all the money in the world for this. Right now I'm looking at buying an RV. Don't have any money for this. I recycle wire out of stuff

 

[MarkJohnston]

OK.

I am pretty sure I figured out what happened. The wiring harness I use to run two batteries in parallel had a positive terminal wire hanging on by barely a strand. IT was trying to draw 1000 watts through a tiny little strand instead of the normal high gauge. Surprised I didn't notice it. I guess what I need to do is use a clamp to take off mechanical stress from those wires. IT is mechanical stress and not a poor solder job, mind you. This time.

I still don't know why it didn't charge evenly that one time, it may have been because the BMS needed an error code reset? Idk. It seems like a fluke because my cheapo $10 Chinese Tangs chargers are still working fine, I have done thousands of charges on these and have put 10k miles on the bike thus far.