-
Howdy! we're looking for donations to finish custom knowledgebase software for this forum. Please see our Funding drive thread
Mini Hiryuu - Mid power ebike
- Thread starter neptronix
- Start date
Decided to make the frame bag support so i can hide my electrics in a bag like before. In this case, since i'm either using a 9FET 4011 or the phaserunner, and either will bolt to the frame bag support for additional controller cooling 
Example of this frame bag support from Super Hiryuu.. all made from home depot parts with a drill and dremel..
After putting the 52v 19.2ah battery in the frame bag, i noticed that there's a sizeable amount of room left. Enough room for one of these in series to get ~66v.
Nice top speed, this would be adequate for 35mph roads that don't have bike lanes. Using flux weakening to achieve this speed would put too much load 52v on the battery.. this would relieve it.
At 30mph, i draw 11.5A thanks to this higher voltage.. that's a 0.6C rate, which is really nice on the battery.. i also get 50 miles of range
Ok, since i'm filling the triangle with batteries.. what to do about water, tools, inner tubes, and, food storage for the long rides this thing is capable of?
I found this rack on ebay.. every part of it is adjustable.. it should allow me to sit the rack really low and forward, taking advantage of the 24" wheel's lower height,, it also has plenty of bolt holes, so i could bolt on a pannier support and have even more storage.
Plan to use a large plastic ammo can bolted to the rack... enough space for 5 1 liter bottles of water.
Example of this frame bag support from Super Hiryuu.. all made from home depot parts with a drill and dremel..
After putting the 52v 19.2ah battery in the frame bag, i noticed that there's a sizeable amount of room left. Enough room for one of these in series to get ~66v.
Nice top speed, this would be adequate for 35mph roads that don't have bike lanes. Using flux weakening to achieve this speed would put too much load 52v on the battery.. this would relieve it.
At 30mph, i draw 11.5A thanks to this higher voltage.. that's a 0.6C rate, which is really nice on the battery.. i also get 50 miles of range
Ok, since i'm filling the triangle with batteries.. what to do about water, tools, inner tubes, and, food storage for the long rides this thing is capable of?
I found this rack on ebay.. every part of it is adjustable.. it should allow me to sit the rack really low and forward, taking advantage of the 24" wheel's lower height,, it also has plenty of bolt holes, so i could bolt on a pannier support and have even more storage.
Plan to use a large plastic ammo can bolted to the rack... enough space for 5 1 liter bottles of water.
 |  |
Interesting rack, claims to carry up to 110 lbs! Is it this one? Bike Rack Rear Bicycle Cargo Rack Luggage Carrier Holder Seat Post Frame | eBay Have you received it yet? How's the quality and will it hold up? I may need one.
Be careful with that rack. The failure point is where the tubing and solid part of the rear support are joined. I had two fail after several thousand miles with not much weight. Check my mod that has been working great:Decided to make the frame bag support so i can hide my electrics in a bag like before. In this case, since i'm either using a 9FET 4011 or the phaserunner, and either will bolt to the frame bag support for additional controller cooling
Example of this frame bag support from Super Hiryuu.. all made from home depot parts with a drill and dremel..
View attachment 353586
After putting the 52v 19.2ah battery in the frame bag, i noticed that there's a sizeable amount of room left. Enough room for one of these in series to get ~66v.
View attachment 353583
Nice top speed, this would be adequate for 35mph roads that don't have bike lanes. Using flux weakening to achieve this speed would put too much load 52v on the battery.. this would relieve it.
View attachment 353584
At 30mph, i draw 11.5A thanks to this higher voltage.. that's a 0.6C rate, which is really nice on the battery.. i also get 50 miles of range
View attachment 353585
Ok, since i'm filling the triangle with batteries.. what to do about water, tools, inner tubes, and, food storage for the long rides this thing is capable of?
I found this rack on ebay.. every part of it is adjustable.. it should allow me to sit the rack really low and forward, taking advantage of the 24" wheel's lower height,, it also has plenty of bolt holes, so i could bolt on a pannier support and have even more storage.
Plan to use a large plastic ammo can bolted to the rack... enough space for 5 1 liter bottles of water.
Post in thread 'My econo-e-bike'
My econo-e-bike
Also, did you figure out your odd CA throttle/power behavior? I’ve had that a few times. Mine is due to a poor connection to my shunt, causing the power reading to go through the roof and cut the throttle due to perceived overcurrent.
Zambam: I just ordered it yesterday.
E-HP: thanks for your advice; the design doesn't look particularly strong, but it does look amenable to being bolstered. I have some thoughts in mind because i want this rack to sit very low.
E-HP: thanks for your advice; the design doesn't look particularly strong, but it does look amenable to being bolstered. I have some thoughts in mind because i want this rack to sit very low.
Nomadstealth
100 mW
I’m using the same rack without any problems . I took mine apart and re-assembled it differently to how it is in the picture . I flipped the rear supports from one side to the other and upside down , that way the larger tube is at the bottom and everything isn’t pushing on the telescopic part .Decided to make the frame bag support so i can hide my electrics in a bag like before. In this case, since i'm either using a 9FET 4011 or the phaserunner, and either will bolt to the frame bag support for additional controller cooling
Example of this frame bag support from Super Hiryuu.. all made from home depot parts with a drill and dremel..
View attachment 353586
After putting the 52v 19.2ah battery in the frame bag, i noticed that there's a sizeable amount of room left. Enough room for one of these in series to get ~66v.
View attachment 353583
Nice top speed, this would be adequate for 35mph roads that don't have bike lanes. Using flux weakening to achieve this speed would put too much load 52v on the battery.. this would relieve it.
View attachment 353584
At 30mph, i draw 11.5A thanks to this higher voltage.. that's a 0.6C rate, which is really nice on the battery.. i also get 50 miles of range
View attachment 353585
Ok, since i'm filling the triangle with batteries.. what to do about water, tools, inner tubes, and, food storage for the long rides this thing is capable of?
I found this rack on ebay.. every part of it is adjustable.. it should allow me to sit the rack really low and forward, taking advantage of the 24" wheel's lower height,, it also has plenty of bolt holes, so i could bolt on a pannier support and have even more storage.
Plan to use a large plastic ammo can bolted to the rack... enough space for 5 1 liter bottles of water.
The bolts that come with the rack are made of cheese , I’ve replaced them all with something decent .
Okay, some wrenching later.. i've wired up an emergency disconnect for the phaserunner, in case it decides to go WOT with no ebrake on me again ( i'm still somewhat traumatized by that event )
In addition, i did hit all the connections with a swab + isopropyl alcohol and noticed the connectors on the CA were a bit oxidized.
Built the frame bag support so the battery can stay forward.. and wow, i have more space than i expected. I could fit a 12FET infineon controller in there.. AND a 4s 20AH lipo!
There is a small amount of battery sway, just like with the bike's predecessor. This time, i'd like to build a lateral support so there's zero battery sway.
But at least the bike is rideable and doesn't look as much like a contraption anymore!
In addition, i did hit all the connections with a swab + isopropyl alcohol and noticed the connectors on the CA were a bit oxidized.
Built the frame bag support so the battery can stay forward.. and wow, i have more space than i expected. I could fit a 12FET infineon controller in there.. AND a 4s 20AH lipo!
There is a small amount of battery sway, just like with the bike's predecessor. This time, i'd like to build a lateral support so there's zero battery sway.
But at least the bike is rideable and doesn't look as much like a contraption anymore!
Smart! think i'll do the same, in addition to adding some more support.
Actually, if it's low enough, there will be more overlap/insertion of the solid arm and may not be as prone to breaking. I'd just keep a good eye on it. Both times it broke while out riding. Luckily I usually carry a roll of electrical tape in my bag, so I was able to wrap half the roll around the parts to make it home.
I only had my controller mounted underneath, and couple of lipos in the rack bag, so 4 or 5 lbs. The adjustable arms work great as the front vertical support though. You may want to consider front supports if you're putting a battery on it. The angled/vertical flat metal piece used for additional front support contributes the the failure by placing lateral force on the leg; it's the design flaw. So removing that and adding an actual front support may also eliminate the chance of failure.
It's a decent rack otherwise; I'm thinking the 3rd time is a charm.
EDIT: I got mixed up on your build thread. Should be sturdy enough if you're not regularly carrying much weight back there.
Last edited:
Nomadstealth
100 mW
If you want the best rack out there , Aeroe is what bike packers use . They're extremely strong and solid (35lbs capacity) and extremely pricey for what you get .
Attachments
Nomadstealth
100 mW
Nomadstealth
100 mW
I'd say that the unusual design puts a lot of people off , they don't look like a regular rack at all .
The support that they've got is the strongest that I've ever seen .
The rack that you've got will probably do the trick , keep this one in mind if things go wrong .
The support that they've got is the strongest that I've ever seen .
The rack that you've got will probably do the trick , keep this one in mind if things go wrong .
Attachments
Speaking of things going wrong..
I decided to give it a pilot run and the phaserunner is acting up again.. doesn't respond to throttle.. 12000W shown on the CA and the wrong voltage also..
Unplug the CA, reboot, and still not working.
The only change i made is adding a longer disconnect switch - which worked by the way.
I think the controller is cursed and it's time for a new one.
I decided to give it a pilot run and the phaserunner is acting up again.. doesn't respond to throttle.. 12000W shown on the CA and the wrong voltage also..
Unplug the CA, reboot, and still not working.
The only change i made is adding a longer disconnect switch - which worked by the way.
I think the controller is cursed and it's time for a new one.
Got the controller to work again this morning. Seems to be failing with a throttle overvoltage error intermittently, jiggling cables does not help. Restarting the phaserunner with the emergency on/off switch does. Most times, hitting the ebrake, then the throttle allows me to resume throttle.
While playing with the bike, it let out a 0.1 sec blip of full power unexpectedly afterwards.
"I warned you the bike was dangerous" comes to mind, haha.
Outside of the annoyance, the ride was fun! On slight downhill segments i was hitting 35mph on a fully charged battery and keeping up with speeds in the car lane when the bike lane disappeared.
The ride was surprisingly comfortable on our crappy streets and it felt like a dual suspension bike with a crappy rear suspension. I almost feel like i could get away with 40mph, but i'd feel scared of potholes. I think the seatpost is doing most of the work, and this suspension action could be improved further.
Definitely gonna throw some 4S lipo in series so i can have enough power to take the car lane on the 35mph streets around here. I've tasted it already and it was sweet.
Talked to grin, no ETA on phaserunners still. I think they've been out for 2-3 months?
Also can't find any USA sellers of 72v capable 30-40A programmable controllers with the appropriate accessories at all, did the DIY parts scene die here? So basically i'm looking to get things from China.. IE weeks out.. not very appealing!
I have an Infineon clone 12FET 4011 that sat in the same storage for 3 years. It had some white residue on part of the board. Hit it with isopropyl alcohol, and it cleaned up. Under the microscope i can't see any area shorted and the board traces look allright / not damaged.
I'm going to rewire the Infineon clone to the L10 connector, add an emergency battery disconnect, and cross my fingers that i have a working bike.
While playing with the bike, it let out a 0.1 sec blip of full power unexpectedly afterwards.
"I warned you the bike was dangerous" comes to mind, haha.
Outside of the annoyance, the ride was fun! On slight downhill segments i was hitting 35mph on a fully charged battery and keeping up with speeds in the car lane when the bike lane disappeared.
The ride was surprisingly comfortable on our crappy streets and it felt like a dual suspension bike with a crappy rear suspension. I almost feel like i could get away with 40mph, but i'd feel scared of potholes. I think the seatpost is doing most of the work, and this suspension action could be improved further.
Definitely gonna throw some 4S lipo in series so i can have enough power to take the car lane on the 35mph streets around here. I've tasted it already and it was sweet.
Talked to grin, no ETA on phaserunners still. I think they've been out for 2-3 months?
Also can't find any USA sellers of 72v capable 30-40A programmable controllers with the appropriate accessories at all, did the DIY parts scene die here? So basically i'm looking to get things from China.. IE weeks out.. not very appealing!
I have an Infineon clone 12FET 4011 that sat in the same storage for 3 years. It had some white residue on part of the board. Hit it with isopropyl alcohol, and it cleaned up. Under the microscope i can't see any area shorted and the board traces look allright / not damaged.
I'm going to rewire the Infineon clone to the L10 connector, add an emergency battery disconnect, and cross my fingers that i have a working bike.
Last edited:
So this cheapo adjustable rack came out allright. It's clearly made of chinesium and could use additional strengthening.
I'm able to just hook the bottom portion to the dropout area for better strength and less motion.
The medium sized ammo box can open about 33%, which is acceptable.
The angles are as such that i could easily use the vbrake posts as additional rack support and improve the stiffness of the rack, which is currently 'close enough for government work', but not ideal.
I need about 17 inches of pannier to completely hide the motor, or 15 inches to hide enough of it. Looking for some panniers now.
I'm able to just hook the bottom portion to the dropout area for better strength and less motion.
The medium sized ammo box can open about 33%, which is acceptable.
The angles are as such that i could easily use the vbrake posts as additional rack support and improve the stiffness of the rack, which is currently 'close enough for government work', but not ideal.
I need about 17 inches of pannier to completely hide the motor, or 15 inches to hide enough of it. Looking for some panniers now.
Shouldn't be too hard to find. Most of mine are all in that range. Still might not be able to cover the whole motor because to avoid heel strike you may have to mount the pannier further rearward which would leave the forward part of the motor "uncovered." Depends on your shoe size and preferred foot placement on the pedals.
I was thinking of ones that are very flat and have a narrow pocket at the bottom. Instead of ones that are like actual bags.
They're barely panniers.
I've seen such a thing on the internet ONCE. i imagine i will probably have to build it myself.
Laptop bags sewn to some canvas could work really well. They're quite thin and i think one intended for a 15" model would hit that 14" tall width. The interconnecting canvas could be made a little longer to give us the full 17" of motor covering.
Yeah, these wouldn't store much but tools, tubes, a spare controller, and some protein bars. But the ammo can can fit the rest of long distance biking needs.
I might have to give up my wonderful 110mm width BB ( totally roadbike like ) but that's okay.
They're barely panniers.
I've seen such a thing on the internet ONCE. i imagine i will probably have to build it myself.
Laptop bags sewn to some canvas could work really well. They're quite thin and i think one intended for a 15" model would hit that 14" tall width. The interconnecting canvas could be made a little longer to give us the full 17" of motor covering.
Yeah, these wouldn't store much but tools, tubes, a spare controller, and some protein bars. But the ammo can can fit the rest of long distance biking needs.
I might have to give up my wonderful 110mm width BB ( totally roadbike like ) but that's okay.
Some notes.
I love having this rack so low. It's easy to use it to pick up the bike.
I took the bike sans battery & controller on a short pedal ride. The grin all axle has pretty low drag. I think it's okay to ride as a pedalbike while i sort these other issues out.
I really like the standover height with the 24.2" wheel. The bike is unacceptably tall for me with a 26" wheel.
26/24" is awesome and i love how the less tall rear wheel gives me so just enough cargo room for a 6L box.
I love having this rack so low. It's easy to use it to pick up the bike.
I took the bike sans battery & controller on a short pedal ride. The grin all axle has pretty low drag. I think it's okay to ride as a pedalbike while i sort these other issues out.
I really like the standover height with the 24.2" wheel. The bike is unacceptably tall for me with a 26" wheel.
26/24" is awesome and i love how the less tall rear wheel gives me so just enough cargo room for a 6L box.
Last edited:
Opened the infineon again to check for the return of that white corrosion.
Found little specs of it still hanging out, so decided to instead of Q tip it with isopropyl, attack it with a toothbrush.
What i really don't want is a short when i plug this controller in.
Let it dry for an hour. Results look good. Cleaned parts of the board look like they had some protective layer partially stripped or affected, but at least we don't have the short prone problem.
Rotated the throttle out a bunch of times to hopefully break up any corrosion inside, if present.
I decided to do a light test on the controller by programming it. Had to run the programming software in compatibility mode on Win 10.
Controller programmed just fine!
I plugged the controller in and it fired right up, spins smoothly as expected, buzzy 9C sounds as expected, ebrake handle shuts off the throttle. System check complete.
No erratic behavior from the CA, wattage readout is rock solid, it was all over the place with the phaserunner.
I'm waiting on a spintend controller but this should do nicely for now
Found little specs of it still hanging out, so decided to instead of Q tip it with isopropyl, attack it with a toothbrush.
What i really don't want is a short when i plug this controller in.
Let it dry for an hour. Results look good. Cleaned parts of the board look like they had some protective layer partially stripped or affected, but at least we don't have the short prone problem.
Rotated the throttle out a bunch of times to hopefully break up any corrosion inside, if present.
I decided to do a light test on the controller by programming it. Had to run the programming software in compatibility mode on Win 10.
Controller programmed just fine!
I plugged the controller in and it fired right up, spins smoothly as expected, buzzy 9C sounds as expected, ebrake handle shuts off the throttle. System check complete.
No erratic behavior from the CA, wattage readout is rock solid, it was all over the place with the phaserunner.
I'm waiting on a spintend controller but this should do nicely for now
OK, i seem to have forgot that these infineon controllers from em3ev.. when you program them, you get double the amps you expected. I was running 65A batt and 180 phase 
Power was thrilling but the motor got quite warm in a short period of time.
I was very impressed by it ( considering i have inadequate wiring ) and also the em3ev battery's tolerance level for such abuse.
Knowing that i'm abusing the tar out of my batt/motor, i dialed the power down 66% and rode a short distance while being very nice to the throttle.
The torque arm bolt came loose and was making rattly and grinding sounds whenever i hit the ebrake or throttle.
I retightened it, and suddenly, the motor stopped working. Upright, with the rear wheel in the air, twist of the throttle would create a brief jiggle of motion and no more.
Disconnected and reconnected power. Wheel in the air, i got the motor to spin once, then it went back to the judder when hitting the throttle.
Symptoms consistent with hall wiring problems.
Good thing i made it up the hill before the bike quit. Pedaled home.
With the bike upside down i can't reproduce the problem again. This reminds me of the issue with the phaserunner.
I suspect that there is a wiring fault in the motor from the factory.
Opening the motor requires de-spoking it, so a quick inspection is not possible.
I don't have a bike shop in the area that's willing to work on an ebike motor to retension the spokes. I've never done that before and would like it done by a professional. This may mean sending it back to Grin.
I believe the solution for diagnosis involves the bike being in an upright orientation on a bike trainer to apply some load, using the phaserunner to act as an ebike tester so i can see what's going on.
There is no way i overheated it, the ~4kw blast was ~1 min in duration, and i've abused a very old 0.5mm lam 27mm 9C for 10 minutes at a time and it survived it.
I'm thinking this bike is going to be down for a few weeks and that sucks. We only have a few weeks before it becomes way too hot to ride.
Power was thrilling but the motor got quite warm in a short period of time.
I was very impressed by it ( considering i have inadequate wiring ) and also the em3ev battery's tolerance level for such abuse.
Knowing that i'm abusing the tar out of my batt/motor, i dialed the power down 66% and rode a short distance while being very nice to the throttle.
The torque arm bolt came loose and was making rattly and grinding sounds whenever i hit the ebrake or throttle.
I retightened it, and suddenly, the motor stopped working. Upright, with the rear wheel in the air, twist of the throttle would create a brief jiggle of motion and no more.
Disconnected and reconnected power. Wheel in the air, i got the motor to spin once, then it went back to the judder when hitting the throttle.
Symptoms consistent with hall wiring problems.
Good thing i made it up the hill before the bike quit. Pedaled home.
With the bike upside down i can't reproduce the problem again. This reminds me of the issue with the phaserunner.
I suspect that there is a wiring fault in the motor from the factory.
Opening the motor requires de-spoking it, so a quick inspection is not possible.
I don't have a bike shop in the area that's willing to work on an ebike motor to retension the spokes. I've never done that before and would like it done by a professional. This may mean sending it back to Grin.
I believe the solution for diagnosis involves the bike being in an upright orientation on a bike trainer to apply some load, using the phaserunner to act as an ebike tester so i can see what's going on.
There is no way i overheated it, the ~4kw blast was ~1 min in duration, and i've abused a very old 0.5mm lam 27mm 9C for 10 minutes at a time and it survived it.
I'm thinking this bike is going to be down for a few weeks and that sucks. We only have a few weeks before it becomes way too hot to ride.
Last edited:
Dry heat, yes, but intense sun radiation ( 4500 ft. altitude ) beating up your skin and dehydrating you. We also get dust storms during the middle of summer. We also have severe ozone pollution during that period, which can be life threatening for me.
That usually keeps me off a bike from July-September. I'm sort of pondering whether i just want to ride with a gas mask on lately.
We have just a few more weeks where morning ( 7am ) is under 80F.
In a fit of rage i've ordered a RH212 fast winding in a 24" with the fastest shipping option.
Why? i think i could use that extra torque capability ( less heat + less battery draw during acceleration like this ).
I'm also impatient right now.
Looks like the Spintend VESC is in the USA, that means i should get it by the end of the week.
I would be nice to see what sensorless mode looks like with the all axle.. is it stuttery or buttery smooth.. we'll find out!
Last edited:
After several maladventures attempting rim straightening/spoke tightening during the earliest phases of my bike-riding career (preteen and early teen years), I too had a long-standing phobia against working with the spokes.
But a recent cracking rim led me to do my own repair-- re-lacing a new stronger rim onto my rear dd hubmotor. Closely following the helpful Grin videos, combined with some helpful suggestions from our members here on ES resulted in a delightful successful wheel rebuild.
For me, the most important ingredient was a high quality tight fitting spoke wrench.
Your project would be even easier as you don't have to measure and calculate for correct spoke length.
Similar threads
