MXUS DD rear hub motor (from cell_man)

[Burtie]

Link to sale thread with specs: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=19971


The kit arrived well packed and undamaged.

Externally this motors look very similar to a 9c type motor, but bears an 'MXUS' manufacturer logo, and the disc brake side cover has a slightly different profile.

I have never owned a 9c motor, I am just judging by the photos and descriptions I have seen of the 9c on this forum.
I have also not opened the motor yet to establish how similar the internals are.

The motor kit included a motor laced into a double walled 26 inch rear wheel with serious looking (12g?) spokes, a 22amp controller, a thumb throttle and a pair of brake levers with switches.

I had no problem attaching a 7 speed freewheel and an 8 inch 6 bolt disc rotor to the motor, within the standard 135mm rear dropout width.
There was plenty of room between the motor and the disc to fit a modern hydraulic disc brake calliper (eg. Hayes Stroker Ryde) -no problem.

I bought the motor expecting it to work as low maintanance commuter transport -which it does very well. This is the slower wind version, it has a maximum speed of about 22 - 23 mph ( 35 - 37 kph) @48v which, for me, is enough for cycle paths and local 'lazy' commuting.
With the standard 22amp controller @48volts (about 1,150watts peak), this motor barely ever gets warm. If you are a performance addict, there is probably plenty of potential to boost this motor with lots more power before it will complain.

I believe cell_man can now also supply a higher speed wind version of this motor (about 20% faster).

I fitted the kit with 12S 15ah LiPo batteries to a basic dual sus mountain bike about two weeks ago.





No rear brake caliper fitted yet (awaiting funds :| ), 10mm spanners used as torque arms .

Apart from being a great and economical commuter, suprisingly this bike (completely standard motor kit) also proves to be quite a bit of fun off the road ...

Until now, I have been more used to Cyclone and RC type builds, ...I cannot get over how quiet these Direct Drive hub motors are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITIoz6UzJ-M
[youtube]ITIoz6UzJ-M[/youtube]




This kit in its standard form will not turn your bike into any road/dirt burner, but it certainly provides a lot of bang-for-buck.

Easily fitted, and with lots of upgrade potential, this kit comes highly recommended 8)






Burtie

 

[Burtie]

...

The supplied 9 FET controller looks pretty weather-proof, if mounted so the wires exit underneath,
and, it never seems to get even slightly warm

 

[mst3kpimp]

sweet.. you guys looked like you were getting some great performance out of those kits. I'm going to have to try one on a 36v setup.

 

[mst3kpimp]

so its ok to run 48v with the 22amp controller? I thought you needed I higher rated controller for such a setup.

 

[Ypedal]

Most 36v controllers work perfectly fine at 48v, but to go 60v + you need the upgraded controller.

I missed the DD comment before watching the video and cringed at the thought of shock load on gears lol.. the DD motors will take alot more abuse without complaint !.

Double check your spoke tension after a few runs ! :wink:

 

[Burtie]

so its ok to run 48v with the 22amp controller? I thought you needed I higher rated controller for such a setup.

As Ypedal says, the 36v controller works fine at 48v, and you get the associated increase in performance, no problem.

The only slight side effect you will notice from going to 48v is that the battery state indicators on the throttle no longer read correctly, because they are calibrated for 36v.

If this bothers you, it is very easy to insert a 12v zener diode in series with the battery sense lead to the throttle. The battery state indicator will then give a meaningful reading again (If anyone wants details of this mod, I could write it up in the technical section).

...Double check your spoke tension after a few runs ! :wink:

Thanks Y, -I dont usually give the bike such beating on its regular run to work, but I will be sure to keep an eye on the spokes from time to time :wink:

Burtie

 

[Burtie]

While I had the rear wheel removed, to fix a tyre, I couldn't resist having a look inside...







Look familiar? ... -I think so.

c.f. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9215&hilit=nine+continent&start=45#p147093






Burtie

 

[deVries]

While I had the rear wheel removed, to fix a tyre, I couldn't resist having a look inside...
Look familiar? ... -I think so.

Sooo, you're indicating a motor similar to a 9c? :wink:

Can this be purchased in an 8x8 wind?

Cell_man?

 

[liveforphysics]

You know what helps in a big way to make the 9C (and this motor) kick ass and not melt? They don't mandrel wind over sized coils and drop them into the slot, they actually hand wrap them so they don't have a huge pile of end-turn resistive copper losses.

Cell-man rocks. Great stuff, great prices.

 

[cell_man]

Thanks Luke

These motors aren't 9C but I think they are every bit as good and dare I say it I think they have better built wheels after some of the complaints I've read on that subject. The rims and spokes are not top notch but the wheels are actually well put together, tough, well trued and the spokes are very well tensioned. They also use a good method to build the wheels which works well IMO when you are using a combination of: a big diameter hub; 1 cross lacing; and thick spokes.

Burtie had the standard slow wound motor (255rpm at 36V no load for a 26" rim) but most that I have supplied recently are a faster wind, 305rpm at 36V. I've checked and I can supply the kits minus the standard controller with a 20USD discount and I have 6, 9 or 12 Fet Infineons fitted with IRFB4110s and 100V caps to replace it if required.

 

[Tom Tom]

Burtie had the standard slow wound motor (255rpm at 36V no load for a 26" rim) but most that I have supplied recently are a faster wind, 305rpm at 36V. I've checked and I can supply the kits minus the standard controller with a 20USD discount and I have 6, 9 or 12 Fet Infineons fitted with IRFB4110s and 100V caps to replace it if required.

Is the standard slow wind motor similiar to a 6x10 9c slow wind motor?

 

[cell_man]

Is the standard slow wind motor similiar to a 6x10 9c slow wind motor?

As I said it is 255rpm no load at 36V for the standard 26" kit. That equates to about 18mph (28kph) on a 36V 12S LiFePO4 pack, give or take.

 

[psycholist]

Burtie,
Impressed by your review, I just ordered the same slow-wind kit from cell-man.
I notice that this kit does not include the thin, “double D” type axle washers that mount INSIDE the frame.
Viewing the photos, it appears you installed the torque washers inside the frame.
Looks to be a good compromise since I will be using a torque plate.
I have an aluminum frame and am considering doing the same.
Did you have to spread the frame or force the wheel, or did it just drop in with little effort?
Do you feel this is a fairly robust installation? I’ll be powered with ~12s2p lipo.

Where’d ya get the 7-spd freewheel? Is it decent quality?

 

[Burtie]

Hi psycholist,
Glad you enjoyed the review, we had fun making it

The wheel dropped in pretty easily, I just spread the dropouts a few mm by hand pressure.
I used a couple of 10mm spanners for torque arms. They are too hard to saw, so cut them using a cutting disc on a dremel.
The resulting installation is very robust.

7 speed freewheel was one I removed from the old wheel the bike came with, -nothing special.

I am sure you will like this kit, I had lots of plans for upgrades and mods to it, but I havent bothered yet, because it works well just the way it is.

Keep us posted with your progress!

Details on one home grown future upgrade here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=19054&start=135#p360346

Burtie

 

[John in CR]

My guess is that the parts came from the same or similar factory, but the similarities end there. Notice the 6x9 designation? That means it must have a larger gauge magnet wire, because it doesn't appear to be short on copper, so it's 9 turns of 6 thicker strands. That doesn't mean anything without knowing the exact gauge of the strands, except it's an indication it didn't come out of the same factory. It makes sense that a factory or factories would make identical stators, rotors, and covers. China needs about 10 million ebikes a year just for itself. They come out of hundreds if not thousands of factories, and they share designs a lot over there, with many identical looking products coming out of different places. I know for a fact that the emoto hubbies I use are made in multiple factories, but I only trust those from the one I deal with which [supposedly] holds the china patent for the design.

Then the labor intensive part of gluing magnets, winding, wiring to turn it into a motor is done at multiple separate sweatshops, some better than others. What I like are the thicker phase wires. My old version 9C had phase wires that I would call "phase threads", not phase wires. Mine were thinner than those in the photo above. Hopefully 9C made a similar upgrade. At least we know the MXUS did.

John

 

[psycholist]

Thanks Burtie! it’s comforting to know I can anticipate a trouble free installation.
Just checked out your link. Very impressive! Looking forward to your load test results!!

 

[dogman dan]

I was also thinking, it sounds like the slow one is 6x9 rather than 6x10. A 6x10 won't go faster than about 15 mph on 36v.

 

[cell_man]

I was also thinking, it sounds like the slow one is 6x9 rather than 6x10. A 6x10 won't go faster than about 15 mph on 36v.

That is the standard wind for a 26" kit. There is also a 700C motor that is a little slower again. I have the details somewhere of the turns for each motor. I really must start calling them by their winding configuration, it's much cooler and I'm sure it adds considerable perceived value to them :lol:

I've run these DD motors on the dyno actually and was very pleasanly surprised at how efficient they are as well as the power output. There's nothing wrong with these motors and they are every bit as good as the 9C. The wheels are better built too.

 

[cell_man]

I've just checked and the various DD motor options are as follows:

wheel turns no load (36V) loaded (36V)
16" 4 410 375rpm
18" 6 370 335rpm
20" 7 335 295rpm
22" 8 305 265rpm
24" 9 275 240rpm
26" 9.5 255 225rpm
28" 10 240 215rpm

I normally supply the 8 turn motor for 26" kits as most complained the standard wind is too slow for them. The above are the standard figures. Their loaded RPM are very optimistic IMO and my tests back this up. Expect the on road loaded rpm to be about 80-85% of the no load at reasonable speeds, not 90% as is claimed. The manufacturer claims 32kph on 36V for the above standard windings, reality is about 28kph on 36V if you stick to the standard wind, at least for the 26" DD kit I tested. They must do their calcs based on a 45kg lady and a good tail wind :lol:

The 700C motor would be a 15mph motor at 36V in a 26" rim.

 

[jonescg]

For what it's worth, Katherine has a cell_man kit on her bike. It's one of these motors on a 700C wheel, a new 9 Fet infineon controller (not that the one supplied was bad, just a mis-diagnosis of a throttle problem) and she runs it at 45-50 V. Top speed without pedalling is about 35 km/h, and about 50 km/h with a brisk pedal in top gear. According to the Cycle Analyst the going rate is 10-11 Wh/km at an average speed of 21 km/h but she likes to let it do a fair bit of work . Max current draw from the battery is 75 A but it really is only brief. Only annoying thing is that the regen doesn't work on the new controller. It's a good way to preserve your disc brakes.

Two thumbs up for cell_man! (Unless you're Persian, then I wouldn't use that gesture )

 

[cell_man]

Hi Chris,

I have a sneaky suspicion the 700C kit I supplied you doesn't have the faster wind that I requested. A check of the no load would confirm that, the data is above in my earlier post. Regen can be enabled on the controller, it just takes a link to be fitted I believe. I'll dig out some info on it and try to work out what exactly needs to be done.

10 or 11Whrs/km is not bad for a bike that will do 35kph unassisted. I would expect those sort of figures on a 25kph bike with little or no pedalling.

Has the higher current controller (30A instead of 22A) given the bike a bit more get up and go?

Apologies Burtie for crashing in on your thread.

 

[jonescg]

Yeah she can definitely feel a difference. Really hauls off the line now compared to before. Personally I can't feel the difference, but then again, I'm a Honda Blackbird at full-throttle kind of guy Would be great if the regen worked - it's a handy feature which can save a set of pads every 6 months. I don't know what the top speed without load is, since the speedo pickup is on the front wheel.

The motor is definitely quality stuff

 

[cell_man]

Coming from a couple of sports 600s the rush of a 500W ebike isn't exactly life changing IMO either With that controller it should be hitting 1500W max input power, so it shouldn't be too shabby especially with the fairly slow wind on that motor.

I'll try to get the details of the re-gen sorted. It's not difficult to implement I believe, just need to sort out the exact details.

 

[dmitriy1976]

Hello.
I bought your (500 W DD Rear motor with 305 RPM +26" DM24 (CNC) rims
IRFB Infineon 4110 Controller 9Fet).
Can you get the program to configure the controller?