Nazca Pioneer solar recumbent build

I ordered that MPPT charge controller from GRIN, and it will get here...someday. In the mean time I had some fun modeling up the solar panels and rudiments of a frame to hold them. After exploring carbon fiber a bit, .049" wall aluminum tubing appears to be sufficiently stiff, strong, light and affordable. (Easton aluminum tent poles are super attractive, but not strong enough without some kind of spaceframe 😭) Fancy features:
  • Taking advantage of the panels' rigidity, each is supported at just three points. The central tube provides torsional stability.
  • The same mounting points also allow stacking one panel atop the other for tight spaces or high winds (or mounting just a single panel)
  • The canopy will be supported at each end of the central tube, allowing pivoting for sun tracking

I'm slightly terrified how this thing might handle in crosswinds, but bikes with canopies are already out there so I think I have to give it a try...

Solar canopy view 2.jpg
Solar canopy view 1.jpg
 
These (or something v. similar - I know Grin sometimes negotiates tweaks to products they resell) are also on Alibaba for under $20 excluding shipping/import duty, see here: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/400W-MPPT-SOLAR-CHARGE-CONTROLLER-99_62573798904.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_image.772733c9SPlgqS - be careful not to get the step-down version which seem more common.
 
matmaxgeds said:
These (or something v. similar - I know Grin sometimes negotiates tweaks to products they resell) are also on Alibaba for under $20 excluding shipping/import duty

I did notice that, but for now I'm enjoying the shipping time/tech support/greater general confidence of the thing working I get from GRIN.
 
I'm enjoying your build so far. I too embarked upon a journey of recumbent/solar last year as well. My project began in earnest this year (over in the Ebike Build Threads - Full-fat Tandem Tadpole Trike). Like you I was first inspired by seeing a lot of stuff that Grin has done with practical ebikes and solar, and of course the Sun Trip videos and such. I've done a geared hub motor, and then when the wiring issues and general, fiddly, complexity of the CA V3 put me off, I switched to a mid-drive Bafang BBSHD. My interest initially was cargo hauling and that seems to be where mid-drives work better than hub motors, but as I'm eyeing solar recharging, or even solar power for the e-assist down the road, I maybe be looking at switching to hub motors, or possibly hub motor done in mid-drive fashion maybe. It seems like direct drive motors are the best when you're doing solar on a bike because you can get the benefit of regen. I'm fairly budget-limited right now though, so I just have to work with what I have. I may still try solar with the mid-drive, but I won't see nearly as many benefits as I would if I had a hub motor, or motors. I think the Grin tandem trike (with the rear rower attachment), used dual hub motors in the front wheels. I'm also not sure how well hub motors and the like would play with the large wheels I'm running on the current configuration of my tandem trike/cargo hauler. I'm not an engineer, and I'm kind of envious of anyone who is able to easily make sense of all the things that figure into incorporating solar into an ebike. I wish there was a good tutorial to follow along that explained things in a fairly easy manner for those of us who need a little more help getting up to speed on all the technical aspects. One other thing - I like your choice of recumbent frame as well. I lusted after a Nazca frame a few years back when I started to look more seriously at recumbents, but they were out of my price range then, and these days I prefer the stability of a trike anyway. There are certainly a lot of images out there of various Nazca bents being used in touring mode, so you've certainly chosen a robust frame for that.
 
kiltedcelt said:
... kind of envious of anyone who is able to easily make sense of all the things that figure into incorporating solar into an ebike.

And I envy your facility with a welder! I'm definitely more confident around math and CAD than serious fabrication work. Nice build thread you have started.

With the mid drive you'll really want to pay attention to the chain line and idlers, huh. The chain will be so long that it could wear really slowly tho, maybe?

Justin at GRIN recorded some seminars about motors that go from the basics (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c96n0Ma2rLY) into pretty hairy detail (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxJe_gygRGU). (Mostly talking hub motors because that's his jam.) They were useful when I was planning my build and going totally off the deep end on simulations and calcs. Geared hub motors like the MAC and GMAC can have great torque even in larger diameter wheels, but small wheels do seem to give a performance advantage with hub motors.

With my bike I've seen regen as high as 20% on certain hilly routes, but I secretly wonder if all the power makes it back into the battery. I try to limit the regen current to like 15 amps for the sake of battery health but my setup would be capable of well more. (Note also that the CycleAnalyst calculates regen percent as energy regenerated divided by the net total energy used, which feels a little dishonest. I think a better metric would be energy regenerated divided by the total work the motor did.) Solar and regen both matter when you are trying to stretch range between recharges, but a bigger battery is the other way to reach that goal. Unless you want to go all the way off grid! That's my someday dream.

I hear fat tires give a great silky smooth ride, but at higher speeds (like over 30 mph) full suspension becomes an asset for safe handling.

The solar components seem plug and play once you pick out the right modules, but it can take some hunting to find those right modules. It's mostly comparing max and min voltages and current limits so that every link in the chain is happy. This blog post was super helpful: https://solare.bike/2020/12/27/designing-a-safe-and-efficient-solar-ebike/

My first Dutch adventure recumbent love was the Optima Condor, but that went out of production ages ago. When I saw Nazca was closing up shop I couldn't let the chance slip away again! They were letting the Pioneer frames go for a quite reasonable price, but surely more than the raw materials you have welded up.
 
Thanks for the fabrication envy! As an engineer, you clearly also have facility with CAD programs and one of my big tasks as soon as I'm done with the major fabrication on this build is to delve into Fusion 360 so I can create some better parts for things like my idler pulleys, and then either go to the maker space and learn how to machine them myself, or send out to have the parts created by a service like Send-Cut-Send. I'm not 100% certain if they are only flat-stock cutting and drilling, or if they have the ability to machine more complex parts. When I originally bought my first e-assist it was only for making a cargo bike less of a chore to ride - loaded or unloaded. Out of that grew a desire to use cargo bikes for more than just hauling and for stuff like carrying camping gear and the like. Long range batteries became my end goal, but solar recharging was also on the table, but say 5 years ago there didn't seem to be as much in the way of less expensive, viable photovoltaics that could be used on a bike. Also, it seemed like most of the ebike crowd was more concerned with recharging a battery up to full capacity, rather than bypassing a battery and running a motor directly off solar panels.

It seems now, like most of the "solar pioneers" like you, Solar e-bike and Justin at Grin (and I'm sure many others), are concentrating on how to make touring with solar a more viable way to cover greater distances due to the motor assistance extending range, but not necessarily being rigidly tied to opportunities to recharge along the way. I've seen a few e-bike touring distance records set in recent years but they're all dependent on large capacity batteries and frequent stops a convenience stores and the like where the rider is able to steal a little top-up. Seems like it's a MUCH better route to incorporate solar into the mix as it lessens that dependence on recharging infrastructure. Anyway, I guess tying in with that is that my mid-drive motor is great for the torque for hauling weight and it can be geared down for hill climbing so the motor rpms stay high which is better for cooling, but the lack of regen capability seems like it potentially limits some of the benefits of solar on the trike. Granted, Chicago and the surrounding countryside for 200 miles is flat AF, but we don't always plan on living here. Ideally we want to move to Colorado or New Mexico and both of those states would be great for solar but they also have hills and mountains.

I like how Grin did dual hub motors on their trikes and they probably benefited more output-wise in their case by sticking with 20" wheels versus the monster 26" full-fat that I've chosen. As you mentioned, 26" fat tires *can* offer a kind of crude suspension just from volume alone, but my reasoning was a few criteria. I wanted all three wheels to be 26" to allow getting on/off the trike to be easier (my wife has balance/coordination issues), and that also allowed for a higher ride height which equals better traffic visibility, and finally I'd envisioned being able to handle some light off-road riding which would be difficult without the traction and clearance of the bigger tires. Currently those tires are set up with tubes, but the plan is to switch them all out to tubeless once the trike is built and all the other kinks are worked out.

I've run tubeless on several bikes now, and the decrease in rolling resistance is well worth it, assuming you've picked decent quality tires with a supple casing. Also, the lack of needing to mess around with tire patching in case of punctures is well worth it, especially on a trike equipped with disc brakes where one not only has to remove the wheel, but must also detach the disc caliper as well. Incidentally, if I had this all to do over, I'd have done Sturmey-Archer drum brake hubs especially because you can get one that has a dynamo built in. Anyway, digression aside, tubeless = lower rolling resistance, and the particular tires I chose - Schwalbe Jumbo Jim has the lowest rolling resistance of ANY fat bike tire, and it's actually even got respectable numbers when compared with tires much smaller in volume. Don't be afraid to go "big" on your recumbent. I don't know the rolling resistance numbers on the Schwalbes you picked out, but the might even be some others that are better. Flat protection isn't always the end-all be-all, especially if you can set them up tubeless. The flat protection layer often makes the casing less supple and the tires will eat up more watts just keeping them rolling compared to more supple tires, especially if run tubeless.

If I'd have known about the Nazca close-out... *maybe?* I might have seen about picking up a frame? Probably not I think. The other reason for picking a trike design (besides cargo hauling stability and stability in tandem-mode), was stability for myself. In the last 10 years or so of car-free living and using a bike to get around almost exclusively, I've racked up a LOT of miles and with high mileage comes higher incidence of "something will happen to you eventually." Luckily I've only been hit by a car twice in 20 years, and the most recent time was a year ago in snow/ice and I was just tapped from behind by a car sliding into the intersection. Neither the bike nor I was injured. However, in those 10 years of 2-wheeled riding, I have jacked up a hip badly in a crash, a wrist, a knee, and a broken rib. All those were from crashes of just me riding along, sometimes wet pavement, sometimes icy, but all made worse by the force that hits you when you fall off a traditional up-right bike even at low speed. I almost bailed a couple times when I had my 2-wheel Bacchetta Giro 20 recumbent a few years ago and I just felt the instability, especially in low-speed riding wasn't worth the lighter weight, higher speed trade off of 2-wheel vs trike. So, trike it is for me going forwards. Also, my own engineering interests seem to lie down this whole solar/utility avenue, and that just seems to work better on three or four wheels. I'm already planning another couple trikes and velomobiles!
 
kiltedcelt said:
or send out to have the parts created by a service like Send-Cut-Send.

...

I've run tubeless on several bikes now, and the decrease in rolling resistance is well worth it, assuming you've picked decent quality tires with a supple casing. ... Don't be afraid to go "big" on your recumbent.

...

I almost bailed a couple times when I had my 2-wheel Bacchetta Giro 20 recumbent a few years ago and I just felt the instability, especially in low-speed riding wasn't worth the lighter weight, higher speed trade off of 2-wheel vs trike.

For work I've ordered from Xometry and ProtoLabs several times and usually been pleased with the results. Those outfits do CNC as well as sheet metal. When spending my own money, though, I'm more inclined to bodge stuff together in the non-CNC machine shop I have access to.

The Nazca already has the biggest tires it can fit in the rear dropouts (55-559 Schwalbe Pick-up). I looked around a bit for 26" tubeless tires but was underwhelmed with the options. Because the motor is helping out I let rolling resistance drop down the list of priorities... Back on page 1 of this thread, Peterfr12 showed how he extended his rear fork to fit a wider motorcycle tire.

My first recumbent was a Rans Rocket with twin 20 inch wheels and it had hugely twitchy handling! By comparison the Tour Easy is famously stable at speed, though it takes concentration when grinding up hills at 4 mph. The Nazca Pioneer feels rock solid with two hands on the bars, but prone to a little shimmy if you take one hand away. Maybe worse around 10 mph? It's never tried to amplify and run away like a speed wobble. I changed the geometry when I put on the suspension fork, though, so maybe it's my own doing.
 
The solar bits work! One of GRIN Tech's value adds is putting Anderson connectors on the solar charge controller, but the first thing I did was rip them off because I'm doing XT60's all over. (The bike will also be getting a terminal block where the battery discharge leads, motor controller input, solar controller output, and tail light all come together.)
PXL_20210507_185158293.jpg
Interestingly the housing looks like a die casting (some zinc alloy?). Weight as shown is 16.5 oz/468 g. Critically this module should be able to handle both of my panels in parallel, which a single Genesun GVB-8 (or a generic blue CTK300) could not to do.

I took everything outside and alligator clipped it together. The charge controller gives live readings of input and output voltage and current, though ironically it is very difficult to read in direct sunlight. (It also does not play well with cell phone cameras as the digits strobe rapidly.) Still, you should be able to make out the readings in this short video where I shaded the panel with a piece of carboard to see how fast it the MPPT algorithm recovers output amps. It sprang back above 50% in less than a second, and settled back to 1.8A in maybe 2-3 seconds overall? I declare it good enough for a hobby project.

[youtube]S5d75L2st7s[/youtube]

With no battery connected, the output readings go blank. In that state the +/-/OK buttons let you set a target voltage the controller won't exceed. (EM3EV suggested 57V max for regen, so that's where I'll start.) With the battery attached the readout appears to display the actual voltage at the battery leads.
 
After our recent back-and-forth, I priced out solar panels and other connector bits from Grin and it comes to probably around $1370 minus tax/shipping which I guess isn't *too* bad? It's less I think, than what I thought it would be. I was just re-watching all the construction videos Grin did for the Solar Trip trike build and it has me thinking about hub motors again. Also, see just how much Grin is able to fabricate in-house due to their suite of tools has me a little jealous. I can get access to some stuff like that through a local maker-space though. It makes me wonder if there would be any market to being a US-based consultant or fabricator of e-bike solar setups. It seems right now that anyone doing a solar e-bike is doing it as a solo DIY project. While it's cool that people want to experiment with it, I want to see it evolve somehow to become more than just one-off DIY projects. It'd be neat to figure out some way to promote it in more of a big way and maybe somehow see if it can get more widespread acceptance. Right now it's still very fringe, even in the e-bike community. Someone had a discussion over in the Bentrider community about utility recumbents, and I'd like to see something more along those lines in the e-bike community - more attention to utility e-bikes and I think solar has to be a big part of that utility discussion. It's great that so many people in this community experiment with e-bikes, but SO many of the builds are SO impractical. Just built for speed or scooting around in the woods or whatever, with few people actually focusing on practical applications of e-bikes beyond "practical" being defined as maybe carrying a couple bags on a rear rack. I want to see "practical" include extensive range and cargo hauling capacity and off-grid ability to power/recharge. Not quite sure how we go about bringing the whole utility/solar thing to the forefront of e-bike discussions. Maybe we do a US-based Sun Trip - coast-to-coast to promote the concept and get a lot of media coverage. Maybe it dovetails in with the proposed "Green" infrastructure bills that have been proposed. Just some thoughts.
 
Electric cargo and kid-hauler bikes are great and their use is growing rapidly. I kinda feel like solar is going stay fringe, though, because almost all trips start and end at a building with electrical power. I'm taking the bike to a friend's cabin in a few weeks and even there I can use an inverter to top up from the cabin 12V solar setup. Besides unsupported touring, can you think of a scenario where solar is more appealing than just carrying moar batteries?

For long distance touring, a much smaller market than around-town cycling, one format I could see getting traction is a self-contained solar trailer housing panels, battery and motor. (That's actually how Mickael Joguet who inspired my bike build did it in the Sun Trip 2018.) A trailer like that could clip on and off a regular bike pretty easy, though you'd still need to integrate a throttle or pedal assist sensor. See e.g. https://www.lasuntravel.com/trailer
 
I'm not sure if solar can move *beyond* fringe, but I'd like to see it do so. Where I think it has more possibilities beyond long distance touring, is cargo hauling in cities where the sort of "last mile" delivery vehicles like Bullitt cargo bikes or quads like the Velove Armadillo could benefit from onboard solar panels that can help keep a battery topped up while an e-HPV is extensively racking up mileage around a city doing deliveries. Also think it might be beneficial with things like velomobiles that are e-assist. There is usually an expanse of deck in front of the rider that could be utilized for solar recharging. There *may* be electricity available for most point-to-point trips, but I think it's the accessibility that is still an issue. Having to carry a cord to charge or top up a battery only works if outlets or charging stations are accessible, and in many cases that isn't going to be an easy solution until there are bike racks with integrated e-charging stations. Also, think about how current bicycle parking is entirely built around locking up regular bicycles. Recumbents are more difficult to lock up at most racks and once you get into cargo bikes or things like trikes, forget it. There's a thread about practical, "utility" recumbent usage over on Bentrider and one of the things I brought up there is that I'd like to see recumbents become a MUCH bigger part of sustainable human-powered transportation going forwards. I think there are numerous benefits to recumbents that just need to be brought more mainstream which I think will result in potentially prices coming down and greater acceptance and adoption. I think integrated solar in some regard is definitely going to need to be a big part of sustainable, convenient e-utility cycling, be it regular bikes, recumbents, or recumbent trikes or whatever.
 
Did you panels manage to make 60% of sticker power on solar ?
I have been enjoying my Nazca , running 1200 peak power to the DD motor. With the sine-wave controller the only noise is the wind. I wish there were more quiet helmets around.
 
marka-ee said:
Did you panels manage to make 60% of sticker power on solar ?

I'm chagrinned to admit I still haven't wired the solar panels to the battery after that preliminary test with alligator clips. Next up is to lay out the solar canopy, then measure the cable run lengths, then solder stuff, then actually plug it in...

Your silent drivetrain must be dreamy! I'm enjoying the GMAC motor but it does have some gear whine.
 
After a long summer vacation followed by months of stalling, the bike battery finally has a permanent home. I ended up making it from .090" aluminum sheet and architectural U-channel (https://www.mcmaster.com/9001K89/), pop riveted together. Compared to the earlier battery position behind the seat it brings a lot more weight to the front wheel, which was part of the intent.
PXL_20211031_193917806.jpg
PXL_20211031_193935186.jpg
PXL_20211022_223450605.jpg

The box attaches with a fat hose clamp and an M12 machine screw at the braze-on meant for the underseat steering pivot. It feels rock-solid, but the weight is kinda cantilevered out under the suspension pivot so I'll be keeping an eye out for cracks developing...
PXL_20211031_194029814.jpg

The original intent was to make the battery removable without tools, but in my zeal to minimize size I gave that up to fit the Baserunner motor controller inside the box. The battery can still come out with four screws, but it's a pain and I'll surely regret it in the future.
PXL_20211027_011623275.jpg
 
Very nice work! I love the final result as long as like you said no cracks form. Do you plan to cover it with vinyl?
Now I'm wondering why I didn't think of U channel, and will probably steal that idea from you in return :)
 
thundercamel said:
Do you plan to cover it with vinyl?

I am ignorant of vinyl covering technologies! But I reserve the right to cover it with stickers.

It turns out you need heavy duty equipment to bend thick (e.g. .090") aluminum sheet, so U-channel was the fallback solution. Then there were issues with the pop rivet tails sticking too far inward to clear the battery and it took some creativity to get tool access inside the box and grind them down.
 
The battery mount is holding up and I ride the bike in to work...sometimes. (31 miles round trip)

I've been having fun learning a new FEA program and analyzing solar panel mounting structures. The solar canopy has some very contradictory requirements:
  • Rigidity for safe handling in traffic
  • Light weight
  • Panels tilt for low sun charging AND to get through narrow passages
  • Low height to catch minimum wind
  • High height for headroom to sit up and balance on unstable surfaces
  • Buildable by me (no welding)

The first concept analyzed has a "picture frame" of angle extrusion, but this appears way too flexible for the job. The first three natural frequencies simulate at 11.8, 12.5, and 17.8 Hz. Better is possible!
Solar bike 04 snapshot.png
mode 1.png
mode 2.png
mode 3.png

A second concept uses beefier 1"x2" and 1.5x1.5" aluminum tubes and gets the lowest vibration mode up to 18 Hz. But running a tube down the centerline cuts into headroom, meaning everything needs to move upward by a few inches!
06 mode 1.png

Concept three uses lightweight Easton tent pole tubing and gets rigidity from triangulation. Having a clearer view forward is certainly appealing, but the "V" post concepts need more complicated tilting mechanisms...can't have it all...good thing I'm not in a hurry... 🙄
Tetra concept.png
07 mode 1.png
 
I iterated the solar canopy design some more and wound up with something that should be light-ish, pretty stiff, and makeable without CNC. Time to get some metal and hack it up!

The struts are mostly aluminum angle, with a few tubes where needed.
Solar bike 10 narrow tetra.png

FEA suggests the lowest vibration modes are at 22+ Hz. A twisting mode comes first:
09 alt rear angle mode 1.png
Then a fore and aft mode:
09 alt rear angle mode 2.png

A simple prop tilts the panel up for charging when the sun is low and to get through narrow gates, and stows away when not in use. I still need to craft a mega-kickstand to park the bike without disaster.
Solar canopy tilted 30 deg.png
Solar canopy tilted 45 deg.png
Solar canopy tilted 73 deg max.png
 
Did you ever measure how many real watts the panels can produce for charge ?
I've been enjoying my Nazca again now that the weather is OK again.
 
Very cool project. You are planning on having that panel (which is wing shaped from a side view) able to be quick released for the windy days, right? Getting blown into traffic or into a ditch was always a concern for me when commuting on my fully faired recumbent e-bike in gusty high winds. Did you get feedback from those solar ebike guys who did this to see how they handled the winds? I'm thinking a single wheel trailer with a tilting deck would allow you to keep riding on those windy days. Also maybe a mechanism to attach it to the side would allow more predictable handling in high side winds.

Warren
 
marka-ee said:
Did you ever measure how many real watts the panels can produce for charge ?
I've been enjoying my Nazca again now that the weather is OK again.

To my chagrin I'm only now finishing the parts for the solar panel mount, so I still have no watts measurements to share 🙄 The Sun Trip people from France are coming to California and we will do a five day solar tour! That's what it took to get me to finish the project! Details at https://www.thesuntrip.com/en/2022-sun-trip-america-test-edition/
 
www.recumbents.com said:
Very cool project. You are planning on having that panel (which is wing shaped from a side view) able to be quick released for the windy days, right?

Yes I'm acutely aware of the risk! Advice from people who have ridden this configuration has has been all over the place.
One rode from France to China and said only two days were too windy to ride. Others have got knocked over under various circumstances. One maintains an overhead structure is fine as long as it is very rigid. Several said the panels don't grab much wind as long as they stay horizontal.

For my bike, I will start with a single panel mounted and see how it handles. If that proves out, then I can try both panels. The canopy is locked in a horizontal position for riding and only tilts for stationary charging.
 
All the bits are machined and I have begun fit-up on the bike.
PXL_20220423_181803560.jpg

The clamps will live on the bike permanently, but the "keystone" parts can lift off to turn the solar bike back into an ebike.
PXL_20220423_185723982.jpg

The overall structure matches the CAD model pretty well, but there's not enough clearance from the tips of my bike shoes to the front struts. I did not put bike shoes in the computer model! But I have ideas how to fix it.
PXL_20220423_234738671.jpg
PXL_20220423_234751097.jpg
PXL_20220424_004110485.jpg
 
All the mounts are now tapped and the struts are bolted on. From here the pace of progress should pick up. I could be cruising on solar power as soon as next weekend!
PXL_20220502_040749820.jpg
PXL_20220502_041515956.jpg
 
Back
Top