I am still getting used to the idea of the change, and slowly processing the implications of it thru the molasses I use for brains....
Being unable to properly put any of my own thoughts into words, I'll quote what feel like the same things I feel others have said better.
justin_le said:
Let me clarify that for me the issue isn't whether or not I see ads myself, or if the core/paying members of ES see them. It's the principle that I or others would be contributing information for free and for the general benefit of the community, only have that information 'cashed in' by a forum owner or add click recipient for their own monetary gain, even though they weren't the ones to produce the valuable information in the first place.
This ^^ is what has been bothering me without me being able to realize it. Everything I do in life except here on ES is for some other entity, making money for them with whatever work I do, usually minimally compensated or not compensated at all. Here on ES it's uncompensated as far as a paycheck goes, but it makes me happy to help out, and sometimes I get rewarded by members who contribute toward my projects in various ways--most of those contributions are the only reasons I still have CrazyBike2 up and running, plus DayGlo Avenger as a spare.
But it isnt' about the compensation--it's about the fun, and the spirit of helping out those that need it, spreading the Electric Revolution, teaching those that want to learn so that they can continue on like many of us have. That's why I spend just about all of the "free" time I have here on ES; even when I can't sleep properly what I tend to do is browse ES and look for threads that need help in them (or nuke spammers if I'm too tired to help).
Miles said:
My preference would be:
Separate page for the "Online Market", with ads to generate revenue.
Forum page to be kept as is (sans "Online Market").
No ads on the forum page for registered members.
I agree with the above except I would have no ads on any forum page at all--only in the market. No ads based on any forum content.
johnrobholmes said:
Indeed. Plus an easier way to pay for some type of donation/ membership that would allow for yearly renewal. Wisely put.
I don't like the idea of targeted ads and click through stuff either. Vendor supported revenue, yes. Google ads, no.
Ditto. I have google crap on my blog because I desperately need the tiny bit of revenue it generates (so far, one check for a bit over $100 in the 3-4 years it's been up and running, and no sign of a second one, probably for another year or two).
Miles said:
How about:
Chinese wall between the "Forum" and the "Marketplace".
No "monetising" of forum content.
"Marketplace" to fund itself and the "Forum" - through ES community related commerce and not Ads from outside.
No membership fees or levels of membership.
Ditto. But if there have to be ads, only in the market, and again, not based on, generated from/by, or linked from any of the forum content.
If the forum does end up with ads on it, which essentially mean someone is making money off of the stuff I do for fun and free (and worse, that it's Chinese manufacturers and worldwide ebike and other companies that don't give a rat's whisker about ES or it's members or the content that's getting them profit), I wont' delete my stuff, but I don't think I'll add any more. If I have to post in an ad-based environment, I'll just do it on my own blog, where at least it's "just" me that gets "paid" for the work I'm doing, albeit a very tiny tiny bit, and not very often. (though of course, all the google ads still point people off to those very same companies I'd despise getting free links from ES by ads here...which probably makes me a hypocrite, but I don't know what else I could do besides remove the google ads and turn away a tiny source of income I could really use).
I have other issues with the changeover to different forum software/etc., but have been assured that this will be minimalized for me and others with similar problems to me, so we'll have to see how that works out.
I'm perfectly ok with a transition of the forum to "own itself", and expect this to be kind of rocky at least at first. I don't know Trevor either, but can hope that things will be ok. If they're not, well, we'll all find out eventually if that's the case, and so we'll be able to decide what to do then.
For now, I'm willing to wait and see what happens.
Hopefully no one goes and starts deleting their stuff...that would really be a tragedy, as it is like ripping pages out of my mind and my life, when I run across threads I enjoyed or contributed to, that are now full of holes. It makes me really sad.
FWIW, it is difficult for me to believe or understand that I might actually have a voice in any changes at ES, because I have been thru many major changes at every place I have ever worked at, including complete corporate buyouts and company shutdowns, as well as numerous management changes. Each such change has always brought major changes to what I have to deal with at work, and it has almost never been happy for me, almost always makes things harder (sometimes so much so that I would've quit if I could've gotten another job fast enough). Partly due to AS, I have lots of quirks I have to force myself to work around as much as I can, but stress doesn't take a light toll on me, and I'm easily stressed out by *any* change, much less major ones (some of the work changes made me seriously ill for months at a time).
I also strongly dislike conflict, and I really hate to see friends (or anyone, really) fighting with each other, or even in major disagreement...I often end up retreating my own opinions for fear of pushing others away, as it is pretty hard for me to make friends, and I don't ever want to lose the ones I manage to actually make. That makes me unsure of what I feel, and what I ought to do/say.
So I'm still getting used to the idea of the changes, and that I might have some say in them, as part of the membership...I've never had a say in how things go before. So it might be a while before I figure out how I can and should react, and what I should do.
For now, I'd say everyone needs to decide for themselves, but I would wait and see how the changes go before deciding.
