New Crystalyte 5403 Review by Doc

[Hyena]

excuse me not reading the whole thread to get an answer to this, but this new x5 looks amazingly similar to the older x5's
they have started making the old ones again?

No these are the 5404 - they're wider than the 53xx, weigh a metric kilotonne and should take a heap of abuse

 

[Doctorbass]

Guys... i'll revise my last post to ensure i was clear, but i said 5mm on each side... not 10mm!

It's 10mm TOTAL.. but it is still very good to fit perfect in most of the frame as well.

Remmember i have to have enough width between the two bearings to have a stable wheel for the lateral forces. :lol: .. in other words i could not just remove like 50mm total and have the two bearing side to side together and have a wheel that can take lateral force :lol:


I will get all requested info you need tonight.

Neilp i'll also have to find a spokes and rim solution as well so with the data i give you, it would be nice if you could share your solution for the spokes and rims.. i was thinking about a 18 or 19" mopped rim ...

Doc

 

[NeilP]

I was wondering if the axle is a knurled shaft pressed into the stator or if it is a splined shaft and a splined stator?

This is something I also discussed with the guys at the machine shop. They thought that if making a replacement axle the spline was probably not even necessary with the large key in the shaft.

I'd be vary wary of using a key alone without any extra clamping. Most keys way type arrangements I have come across usually also have a grub screw or two in there as well to secure it all in place...with any play being taken up by the screw..with the possibility of it being pulled slightly off centre.
I have many agricultural high load examples where the keyway eventually gets slop in it. I would not go with a keyway. Splined gives a much greater overall surface area to hold against

They also questioned if both sides were actually splined to start with or if the harder metal of one groved the spline into the other as the axle was pressed in.

Yes, that is what I wondered. That is what is often known as a knurled fit..the axle is knurled with the grooves and made a press fit in to the housing

 

[NeilP]

Remmember i have to have enough width between the two bearings to have a stable wheel for the lateral forces. :lol: .. in other words i could not just remove like 50mm total and have the two bearing side to side together and have a wheel that can take lateral force :lol:

Umm...lateral forces...Taper roller bearings?

Neilp i'll also have to find a spokes and rim solution as well so with the data i give you, it would be nice if you could share your solution for the spokes and rims.. i was thinking about a 18 or 19" mopped rim ...

Doc

I was thinking 17 inch moped rim I have a 17 x 1.4 at the moment...36 hole, with offset and angled dimpled spoke drillings. Honda C90 front moped rim
Would give a MTB equivalent of about 22 inch.


I had used 12 gauge on my 5304 build. I reckon these 54xx motors with the 5mm spoke hole drillings will easily accept 10 gauge or thicker spokes. even 8 gauge

http://www.newsonsportec.com/spokes-spec.html
OK, maybe 8 maybe a bit much, we have the thickness of the flange and the 'spoke bend diameter' to consider also

I also have a rim (19 inch I think ) off of a Honda Africa twin, which will give a MTB size of about 26 inch. but I think I prefer smaller for better acceleration

I have the wheel sitting here, but it is chromed and rusty and does not look nice. i will work perfectly but just looks very bad.

These people http://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/ can do me a new rim and spokes...but it is expensive £65 for rim and a set of spokes also £65 cut to suit

So that is $210 USD extra for a shiny wheel, or just endure teh rust and spend a lot less on the spokes from another supplier

 

[scriewy]

ehh.... can any 1 say what's the no load speed of 5403 ?

i checked 3 threads and no 1 mentioned no load speed everybody got distracted by mods.

edit: i meant KV or RPM, got answer from Doctorbass in another thread, it's 9.7 for 5403.

 

[Mr Lowbank]

huh, interesting.

i came for a question and got this surprise

anywho, maybe while instaling you guys from the overwhelming crazy STUPID POWER of the motor become frantic & overly excited thus OVERWHELMINGLY start drooling & tightening the nuts and strip the threads ?

i came to conclusion to tighten at about 40-50N, and the rest is upto the torque arm/s, because if you remember from justins tests the nut was loosened newton for newton of tightening the nut by hand, you tighten 30N, it was loosened by amps equating to 30N, tighten 60N - was loosened by amps equating to 60N, and if i recall threads stripped at 100N.

so no point tightening over 60N if you run above 40A, leave it to the toque arm/s.
for lovers of a quicky job if you'l use 15cm long wrench, applying a dead weight (or with your hand) 20kg pressure at the end will give 30N
30kg = 45N
40kg = 60N
if i didn't mistook anything 2 years ago.

doc or any 1 ells ! the question, what is minimum gear puller needed to open 540x, is 6' enough (150mm arms), or need 8' ?

and what about all the users who got original stealth bikes, no axle issues alike ?

i think nikobie offered machining HS axles not long ago.

farfle there's no time limit, 1 axle per day is cool, and no schedule which other day to devote for an axle.

Ditto for me
Had what sounded like tweete bird following me on the bommber so tighten axle and he went away second time Tweete bird came back tighten axle and strip thread bugger.

Did you come up with a good solution? can't find nikobie. I'm thinking I would like a new hard steel axle with some big flats to go though some custom fitting torque arms (snug to axle and swing arm) with flanged nuts, should do it .

Has the hardened steel replacement axle ever bee done?
Pointers please
Cheers Jon

 

[Doctorbass]

edit: i meant KV or RPM, got answer in another thread, it's 9.7 for 5403.

I know it's me who measured it :wink:

Doc

 

[Doctorbass]

huh, interesting.

i came for a question and got this surprise

anywho, maybe while instaling you guys from the overwhelming crazy STUPID POWER of the motor become frantic & overly excited thus OVERWHELMINGLY start drooling & tightening the nuts and strip the threads ?

i came to conclusion to tighten at about 40-50N, and the rest is upto the torque arm/s, because if you remember from justins tests the nut was loosened newton for newton of tightening the nut by hand, you tighten 30N, it was loosened by amps equating to 30N, tighten 60N - was loosened by amps equating to 60N, and if i recall threads stripped at 100N.

so no point tightening over 60N if you run above 40A, leave it to the toque arm/s.
for lovers of a quicky job if you'l use 15cm long wrench, applying a dead weight (or with your hand) 20kg pressure at the end will give 30N
30kg = 45N
40kg = 60N
if i didn't mistook anything 2 years ago.

doc or any 1 ells ! the question, what is minimum gear puller needed to open 540x, is 6' enough (150mm arms), or need 8' ?

and what about all the users who got original stealth bikes, no axle issues alike ?

i think nikobie offered machining HS axles not long ago.

farfle there's no time limit, 1 axle per day is cool, and no schedule which other day to devote for an axle.

Ditto for me
Had what sounded like tweete bird following me on the bommber so tighten axle and he went away second time Tweete bird came back tighten axle and strip thread bugger.

Did you come up with a good solution? can't find nikobie. I'm thinking I would like a new hard steel axle with some big flats to go though some custom fitting torque arms (snug to axle and swing arm) with flanged nuts, should do it .

Has the hardened steel replacement axle ever bee done?
Pointers please
Cheers Jon

Tightening the axel should ONLY be done to hold the wheel in place... ( Weight of the wheel on teh bike) NOT to take any torque from the motor.

This is the most common mistake people do.. they thighten and overtighten their axel nut thinking it will reduce the axel play when high torque is applied by the motor... ERROR :x

it's the flat of the axel that is made to take the torque... AND BOTH SIDE AT A TIME.. not only one side.

Then use a proper torque plate..arm made of steel like the QT100 ( DOMEX)

Doc

 

[Punx0r]

While I absolutely agree with the sentiment - don't strip the axle threads in an attempt to stop the axle moving, I'm sure those nuts need to be pretty tight to prevent fretting of the axle/torque arm (maybe excepting pinch type arms).

Car driveshafts transmit their torque by a very nicely fitting spline, but they also need a big ol' nut done up FT to prevent the spline fretting. I don't think I'm making a faux pas comparing the two...

That and you need a minimum amount of stretch in the axle to keep the nuts from working loose. Whether those nuts experience the type of vibration and number of cycles to loosen in the real world, who knows?

Just some thoughts

 

[Doctorbass]

While I absolutely agree with the sentiment - don't strip the axle threads in an attempt to stop the axle moving, I'm sure those nuts need to be pretty tight to prevent fretting of the axle/torque arm (maybe excepting pinch type arms).

Car driveshafts transmit their torque by a very nicely fitting spline, but they also need a big ol' nut done up FT to prevent the spline fretting. I don't think I'm making a faux pas comparing the two...

That and you need a minimum amount of stretch in the axle to keep the nuts from working loose. Whether those nuts experience the type of vibration and number of cycles to loosen in the real world, who knows?

Just some thoughts

Well I have more than 14 000km done in electric bike and always used the same principle for attaching the axel to the frame with the torque arm and never had any axel problem.. and i overpower in the 10kW+ all motor i use...

All people that used the same principle as i suggested also never had any problem

: Two good torquer arm made of steel 2 lock nut and two nuts + thighten them in their specs with a torque wrench and that's it...

But as well if you use regen It might add some stress due to the play in teh axel- torque arm.. but all my ebike with regen dont have problem.


now let's go back to the original thread subject :wink:

Doc

 

[Punx0r]

If you're torquing them up then that's a lot more than it takes to just stop the wheel falling out My wheel holds itself in place with the nuts completely removed.

 

[scriewy]

Mr lowbank go there
Subject: 5404/5403 The good The bad The ugly

if you'l do a new axle that's great as well, though the price might be not low 100$+, unless you find singapor mechanic he'l do you for 50$, or chinese engineer work you out for 30$, or a kid take care of you for 20$.

 

[Allex]

If I would to upgrade the power of my Bomber, I believe it uses a 5403. How much kWs can this stock motor take without modifying it? Well maybe replace the phase wires, but thats it! I am after more torque, the speed is enough.

 

[NeilP]

Neilp i'll also have to find a spokes and rim solution as well so with the data i give you, it would be nice if you could share your solution for the spokes and rims.. i was thinking about a 18 or 19" mopped rim ...

Doc

A long time ago...but I have now built the wheel
I went with 17 x 1.4 alloy rims 36 hole

Single cross.
Little bit of bend on the spoke where it exits the nipples, even with single cross but did not want radial

done the front wheel too.

Think overall diameter with those tyres was a little over that of a 24 inch MTB wheel and tyre

What did you build ?

I still have not got the bike finished. I am waiting to get some time on my mates milling machine to build my usual style big clamping dropouts. overkill I know..butI like it that way.

I may even replace the axle before I start...same or thicker still than my 5304 re-axle


View attachment 5



View attachment 1



My old 5304 axle Mk2 and clamp

 

[wojtek]

yes I agree with Doc.

I am using this simple aluminium solution [not only steel!!!] and it is good enough for 7KW+ bursts !!! just because the wheel is securely fastened and no play on the axle possible.

90kmh in GoOne Evo: http://youtu.be/Pw8y1XBoAx8

 

[NeilP]

very similar to mine..a simple clamping system. Mine is aluminium too.

I was thinking of making a bigger axle simply because it is easier to fit bigger phase wires, temp sensor wires etc on the bigger design I used.

Stupidly I do nto remember if I kept the dimensions of my new axle, so i would have to machine a new one from experimentation again ..damn

 

[splitfire]

Need help here. I was about to rethread my crystalyte 5403 axle but I dont know the diameter and the pitch.... I measured it I got 14mm and pitch size is 1.5 im not sure if am right. Thanks

 

[splitfire]

Never mind I got it right its m14 x 1.5mm pitch. Just to let you guys know.....thanks

 

[wojtek]

I would also need exact measurement of the 54xx axle..

 

[John in CR]

Use good clamping torque arms and axle nuts can become unnecessary. On my 100mph hubmotored ebike the axle nuts are only there for decoration and to cover the threads of the axle, so I don't rip my shins open bumping into them. They're only 1 notch past hand tight, and have no use in holding the motor in place.

 

[splitfire]

can somebody post a pics of their axle clamps and how to make them. I am using 5403 hub i rethread the axle its kinda lose but is not that bad. Just want to be on the safe side. My bike is running 50mph (80kph) max speed. I dont know if it requires a clamping on the axle. and i am going to replace my phase wire. Is there anyone who replaces their phase wire with 12gauge? 12gauge looks like it has a fewer conductor compare to the original ones and 12gauge has a thicker insulation, will it still fit ?

 

[Ypedal]

Get teflon coated wire ( high temp very thin insulation )

and yes, you need clamping torque arms on an 80 kph rig.

 

[Allex]

Not the speed that you should think about but the power(torque) you are producing during acceleration and regeneration. That is where the axle wants to twist this is why we use torque arms.
I used 10AWG turnigy wires in my 5403, to make it fit without mods I removed silicone and used shrink tube. Doc actually used Turnigy 10AWG wires on his motor but he squeezed them WITH silicone insulation!
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=62650

 

[splitfire]

Ypedal. Where can I get that teflon coated wire.

 

[Ypedal]

http://www.powerwerx.com/wire-cable/ptfe-high-temperature-stranded-wire.html