new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[lukashanak]

How many amps and phase amps have you set it to? Do you know the temp of the motor while riding and what does the sensor measure, coil temp?
How fast does it get to 100C or whatever your limit is if you hammer it?

You can just change the gearbox grease, it made it quieter for me, mobiltemp shc 100, designed for electric motors with high heat.

Not sure exactly, but something about 130A battery and 330A phase.
Temp sensor I have on motor body ouside on thermal paste hidden below silicone. Temps not sure. Sensor shows a few degrees lower than is real. 45°C for shutdown motor and 40°C for lower power. I can reach it after 2km of WOT. I usualy ride in technical terrain in woods that temps not problem in colder weather. But I plan some coooling mod for summer. Or 4800W cyclone if this dies...

 

[lukashanak]

And I'm using field weakening. It makes about 30% more rpm. Less changing gears for short bursts.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Its easy. Only 4 bolts on output shaft side. Then take gearbox out and take out lock rings on gears.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Q4XnKGF1QrdRRvqCA

Can you share a bit about your 150a setup? I have a 4kw motor too, curious how it handles it.

Sorry, I was kayaking last weeks.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/A4xLD8bL7atkThEo9

What do you want to know?
Its cyclone 4kw mounted on Specialized Epic. Upgraded motor mounts, freewheels, steel chainrings (big on motor for lower forces on bike chain and cog), brakes, shorter trial isis cranks, steel gears in gearbox now,sabvoton 72150 controller and 3x10ah +3x8ah lipos (18s 18ah pack). Now thinking about gearbox oil mod and some cooling mod for motor. I have temp sensor and controller limits power when overheated. If i dont ride to hard, its ok but summer wil be worse...

Ha, you came to the same conclusion I did with my 4K. Mine maxes at around 80A but it has so much torque its just unusable in lower gears. Switched to the smaller 34T sprocket to get the power back as top speed. I can get to 50mph pretty easily. I use a couple of giant 20Ah lipos backed up with a couple of 36V 4.4Ah triangle batteries that happened to fit in my battery bag, so 4 batteries total. Also, a tensioner sprocket siding directly on a brass tube I placed over a guard mount bolt.

 

[lukashanak]

After many problems with chain slipping, broken chains..... I ended on 22/30 tooth on motor chain and 36/11-36 on back chain. Lower forces to bike components and with this power I can still climb everything. But cant use cranks at high speeds, but my power is inappreciable to motor. And chain slipping is gone and after 500km back chain still OK. Original freewheels are dead. Now I have rebuildable freewheels from white industries and time will show. And cyclone bearings on isis shaft cracking from last week. Looks like chinese cant make good bearings.

 

[Tommm]

Yea, you don't even need reduction with 5kw+ on a bike other than the 6:1 inside the motor. 1:1 for high speed, 1:1.5 for climbing.

Anything inside the realm of pedaling cadence will be destruction on the bike cogs, forget it.

 

[SwampDonkey]

After many problems with chain slipping, broken chains..... I ended on 22/30 tooth on motor chain and 36/11-36 on back chain. Lower forces to bike components and with this power I can still climb everything. But cant use cranks at high speeds, but my power is inappreciable to motor. And chain slipping is gone and after 500km back chain still OK. Original freewheels are dead. Now I have rebuildable freewheels from white industries and time will show. And cyclone bearings on isis shaft cracking from last week. Looks like chinese cant make good bearings.

Awesome bike! Im new to this, where did you find the freewheel with large cog mounted directly to the cyclone's shaft? I have a feeling mine wont last long. Also, I started a thread about this bike and the problems Ive had with damaged chainrings. Im sure aluminum is totally out of the question at this level. What have you found that survives the horror of 150A?

Also, are you still using the stock throttle? I found a MUCH better one that happens to be cheap as well. Just installed it today and the amount of control I had vs. the stock throttle is beyond words. I was actually not terrified of my own bike for a change lol. Before it was like riding the back of an angry lion or something.

Yea, you don't even need reduction with 5kw+ on a bike other than the 6:1 inside the motor. 1:1 for high speed, 1:1.5 for climbing.

Anything inside the realm of pedaling cadence will be destruction on the bike cogs, forget it.

Very true. Direct drive would be just fine, maybe with a longer chain going directly to the rear cassette. Unfortunately Im looking to sell this bike so I wont be able to tinker with it much longer.

 

[lukashanak]

On motor is 20mm shaft adaptor for trial freewheel.
http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=1927
And 22 tooth trial freewheel.
http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=2267

And on cranks is Ultra heavy duty freewheel from sickbike parts(made by white industries too)
Booth are rebuildable. Can buy pawls, bearings....

And chairing I buy with biggest weight instead of normal bikers
But I drive some time 38 tooth aluminium chainring and no problem. I think, that chain kill your chainring when is too long.
But the key is that you must lower forces. You can make it by bigger chain speed. For that I use 22/30 teeth on motor chain.

Throttle I have original halfhand from cyclone kit. Sabvoton controller can make my throttle curve so its ok for me. But give a tip, when this die I will try it. And best instead of original cyclone controller which is speed controlled throttle, is torque controlled throttle. It feels like motorbike or car. More throttle = more phase amps.

 

[SwampDonkey]

On motor is 20mm shaft adaptor for trial freewheel.
http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=1927
And 22 tooth trial freewheel.
http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=2267

And on cranks is Ultra heavy duty freewheel from sickbike parts(made by white industries too)
Booth are rebuildable. Can buy pawls, bearings....

Throttle I have original halfhand from cyclone kit. Sabvoton controller can make my throttle curve so its ok for me. But give a tip, when this die I will try it. And best instead of original cyclone controller which is speed controlled throttle, is torque controlled throttle. It feels like motorbike or car. More throttle = more phase amps.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicycle-Throttle-Ebike-Thumb-Accelerator-Speed-Control-Shifter-Without-Handlebar/254177959381?hash=item3b2e2fddd5:m:m6ex6IgKRPVG8BoYGCVUJ8Q

Im also using a bluetooth controller on mine. The stock throttle always seemed to "jump" even when twisted very slowly. I grabbed one of these (below) on Ebay for 25 bucks. I had a Domino (very good) throttle on another bike, and this one is just as nice as far as being smooth from a stop up to top speed.

 

[lukashanak]

On motor is 20mm shaft adaptor for trial freewheel.
http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=1927
And 22 tooth trial freewheel.
http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=2267

And on cranks is Ultra heavy duty freewheel from sickbike parts(made by white industries too)
Booth are rebuildable. Can buy pawls, bearings....

Throttle I have original halfhand from cyclone kit. Sabvoton controller can make my throttle curve so its ok for me. But give a tip, when this die I will try it. And best instead of original cyclone controller which is speed controlled throttle, is torque controlled throttle. It feels like motorbike or car. More throttle = more phase amps.

Im also using a bluetooth controller on mine. The stock throttle always seemed to "jump" even when twisted very slowly. I grabbed one of these (below) on Ebay for 25 bucks. I had a Domino (very good) throttle on another bike, and this one is just as nice as far as being smooth from a stop up to top speed.

Trust me....I had cyclone bluetooth controller. Torque based throttle is another level. The power is MUCH more controllable. Its not comparable.

 

[SwampDonkey]

On motor is 20mm shaft adaptor for trial freewheel.
http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=1927
And 22 tooth trial freewheel.
http://www.staton-inc.com/store/index.php?p=product&id=2267

And on cranks is Ultra heavy duty freewheel from sickbike parts(made by white industries too)
Booth are rebuildable. Can buy pawls, bearings....

Throttle I have original halfhand from cyclone kit. Sabvoton controller can make my throttle curve so its ok for me. But give a tip, when this die I will try it. And best instead of original cyclone controller which is speed controlled throttle, is torque controlled throttle. It feels like motorbike or car. More throttle = more phase amps.

Im also using a bluetooth controller on mine. The stock throttle always seemed to "jump" even when twisted very slowly. I grabbed one of these (below) on Ebay for 25 bucks. I had a Domino (very good) throttle on another bike, and this one is just as nice as far as being smooth from a stop up to top speed.

Trust me....I had cyclone bluetooth controller. Torque based throttle is another level. The power is MUCH more controllable. Its not comparable.

Interesting. Gotta have the right controller, right?

 

[Tommm]

I had the cyclone controller, now a different one from the same brand. What fixed throttle for me: "adjust accelerator curve" in options and buying a higher quality throttle. That option makes the throttle curve more logarithmic, with a similar effect as a torque throttle.

 

[SwampDonkey]

I just snapped my half-link chain yesterday on my 6Kw cyclone. Before it broke it visibly stretched. Went back to 25H chain since Ive never had a problem with it. I just accelerated HARD up the steepest hill I could find with the 25H and no stretching. I think this might be the appropriate motor-to-chainwheel chain for high power rigs. It looks to be about 50% more beefy than the purple halflink I was using, if not more.

 

[Grantmac]

When I built my new motor mounts I sized them exactly to be tight with a 410 sized chain. I've heard half links can't take as much power.

 

[aCeMadMod]

Look like #25h chain you can use with cyclone 3000 watt power Fine


Good luck Killing your motor with 150 Amp.

My test were done under water and sill motor boiled the water in a very short time
The wire can't take the amps


I am upgrade to new cyclone 4800 watt motor.
I get 10/ percent better More range.

Better fill. Less wates

Yes half link do get longer. From tox I use in a short time.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Look like #25h chain you can use with cyclone 3000 watt power Fine


Good luck Killing your motor with 150 Amp.

My test were done under water and sill motor boiled the water in a very short time
The wire can't take the amps


I am upgrade to new cyclone 4800 watt motor.
I get 10/ percent better More range.

Better fill. Less wates

Yes half link do get longer. From tox I use in a short time.

Im at around 85A Im thinking, and using a 4000W motor. Im skeptical about the "4800W" having superior copper fill and internals, besides steel gears. I hope Im wrong and we have a legit "super-cyclone" I can upgrade to. I jut rode 5 miles this afternoon at 35-45 mph and the motor was just warm, not hot. Weather was cool and beautiful though, so im sure that helped. New chain held up perfectly!

 

[lukashanak]

How many amps and phase amps have you set it to? Do you know the temp of the motor while riding and what does the sensor measure, coil temp?
How fast does it get to 100C or whatever your limit is if you hammer it?

You can just change the gearbox grease, it made it quieter for me, mobiltemp shc 100, designed for electric motors with high heat.

Thanks for tip. Its much quieter now.

 

[lukashanak]

I take some inspiration by aCeMadMod with cooling. Tested yesterday. I drive my trail from work to home about 6km. Most uphill. Ride hardest as I can and i cant overheat it.
Used https://www.arctic.ac/eu_en/f8.html (left side rotation fan) which I have unused at home on motor shaft and made some holes to airflow.

So I changed battery amps from 130 to 150A and field weakening from 40 to 50A.

And I can confirm, that newer cyclone motors have 110°C temp fuse. I never trigered it, but its here.

 

[Tommm]

And I can confirm, that newer cyclone motors have 110°C temp fuse. I never trigered it, but its here.

How do you spot the fuse?

Did it get stronger 130 to 150 or just hotter? :lol:

 

[lukashanak]

L

How do you spot the fuse?

Did it get stronger 130 to 150 or just hotter? :lol:

I think both. If I use high revs, no problem with heat now.
You can see fuse on left side by the winding on my photo. White thing, 110°C on it.

 

[district9prawn]

You can see fuse on left side by the winding on my photo. White thing, 110°C on it.

On your motor was the temp sensor just hanging loose like that originally or did you pull it out to show us? Should really embed it in the windings.

 

[Tommm]

You can see fuse on left side by the winding on my photo. White thing, 110°C on it.

On your motor was the temp sensor just hanging loose like that originally or did you pull it out to show us? Should really embed it in the windings.

Haha, it might be the usual cyclone way: good idea, lacking execution.

 

[matt912836]

Hoping i could get some help diagnosing a problem with my 3000w cyclone motor after a small crash. I've had this thing as reliable as can be for a a lot longer than I expected for now. Once I got all the chain and crank alignment issues sorted, I've been running full 72v 40a power with no problem. 48t front chainring to a 28t rear so big gears only, at 72v makes this thing literally a wheelie machine, even at speed. Motor gets warm at best after trying to be as hard as possible on the motor, pulling non stop wheelies from dead stops, even with long full throttle runs and field weakening on max, I could never get the motor to get even warm enough for concern.

Until now.

While replacing my rear wheel axle from a snapped qr to a solid 3/8 axle, I must have gotten a tiny bit of grease on my brake rotor. I noticed this when I took the bike back out and immediately went to wheelie and tried to feather my rear brake to drop back, instead the bike slowly fell backwards and looped out. Absolutely no external physical damage to the motor or drive train at all, mount or chain line, nothing bent at all and everything looks fine and lines up just like before, atleast externally. I was able to get back on and ride just fine and nothing externally changed.

Now, the motor itself seems to be slightly inefficient and feels like it wont spin as fast as easily, top speed definitely feels a little off, it seems to sag the battery more on hard pulls and field weakening definitely seems to be taking more effort from the battery. Yet nothing sounds different at all, theres no crunching noise like a plastic gear broke, no grinding or rubbing sounds like something broke inside, nothing sounds different at all. But something is definitely wrong now as the motor definitely gets almost hot on full power. It gets warmer than it did before on full power even if I dial the power back. And for the simple fact I feel like I lost all ability to do long controlled wheelies as that instant snap from rpm-based torque seems to be almost gone :x

Ideas?

 

[Tommm]

Hoping i could get some help diagnosing a problem with my 3000w cyclone motor after a small crash. I've had this thing as reliable as can be for a a lot longer than I expected for now. Once I got all the chain and crank alignment issues sorted, I've been running full 72v 40a power with no problem. 48t front chainring to a 28t rear so big gears only, at 72v makes this thing literally a wheelie machine, even at speed. Motor gets warm at best after trying to be as hard as possible on the motor, pulling non stop wheelies from dead stops, even with long full throttle runs and field weakening on max, I could never get the motor to get even warm enough for concern.

Until now.

While replacing my rear wheel axle from a snapped qr to a solid 3/8 axle, I must have gotten a tiny bit of grease on my brake rotor. I noticed this when I took the bike back out and immediately went to wheelie and tried to feather my rear brake to drop back, instead the bike slowly fell backwards and looped out. Absolutely no external physical damage to the motor or drive train at all, mount or chain line, nothing bent at all and everything looks fine and lines up just like before, atleast externally. I was able to get back on and ride just fine and nothing externally changed.

Now, the motor itself seems to be slightly inefficient and feels like it wont spin as fast as easily, top speed definitely feels a little off, it seems to sag the battery more on hard pulls and field weakening definitely seems to be taking more effort from the battery. Yet nothing sounds different at all, theres no crunching noise like a plastic gear broke, no grinding or rubbing sounds like something broke inside, nothing sounds different at all. But something is definitely wrong now as the motor definitely gets almost hot on full power. It gets warmer than it did before on full power even if I dial the power back. And for the simple fact I feel like I lost all ability to do long controlled wheelies as that instant snap from rpm-based torque seems to be almost gone :x

Ideas?

Take it apart then. See if the shaft moves as easily as it did before. Same with the freewheel.

 

[flat tire]

Ideas?

The motor is made for bottom dollar by people who don't care that much and you slightly damaged some insulation / started to connect a winding to the stator or another winding when the internals were shocked / moved around slightly upon crashing. Happens all the time in these cheap chinese motors when ridden hard or crashed.

The damage is probably terminal and the only solution is to rewind the motor. Preferably with a decent magnet wire and properly isolated stator next time. Then you need to epoxy the windings so they can't move around.

 

[matt912836]

Ideas?

The motor is made for bottom dollar by people who don't care that much and you slightly damaged some insulation / started to connect a winding to the stator or another winding when the internals were shocked / moved around slightly upon crashing. Happens all the time in these cheap chinese motors when ridden hard or crashed.

The damage is probably terminal and the only solution is to rewind the motor. Preferably with a decent magnet wire and properly isolated stator next time. Then you need to epoxy the windings so they can't move around.

Take it apart then. See if the shaft moves as easily as it did before. Same with the freewheel.

I was really hoping it was just a bearing gone bad or something, but upon further inspection, the top bolt on the drive side the motor holding the motor onto the mount happens to have sheered off right at the beginning of the threads. I will have to use a left handed drill bit to get the threaded piece out the motor, hopefully this was the original problem but honestly not sure as I'm only noticing this now after continuing to ride the motor hard (wheelies and all) and almost having the motor chain snap on me. And I dont think I could have rode it that hard again with this bolt being loose this whole time. Now i see why the chain almost snapped, because the motor is now moving in the mount. Only thing is it definitely wasnt doing this immediately after the crash, it's only now the motor is clear its loose.

Anyone know the size of the bolts that are on the freewheel side of the motor? Its atleast an inch and a half before the threads actually begin.



Also, if this doesnt fix the problem, wheres the easiest and cheapest place to source a replacement motor? I see some replies about it being $99 for a new one shipped..