new cyclone 3000 w mid-drive kit?

[Esting]

Gman1971
it looks like the Cyclone 3000W Upgraded Solid Mounting Bracket $99.95 on the web site.

 

[gman1971]

Thanks!
I looked up the other day but I didn't find it.

So 99 dollars for a piece of steel? wow, thanks but no thanks. I'll stick with robocam's plate.

G.

 

[le15otl]

evolutiongts, what metal piece did you buy which has the bracket to put the bolt through? Or did you machine a thicker bit of metal all the way down and drill through?

 

[DingusMcGee]

I have added a homemade 18v battery pack of Samsung 5s7p 30Q cells to the Luna 52v 20aH pack. The voltage choice was the highest I could add and not exceed the rating of the caps [80v] in the OEM controller. When both chargers are near complete the max voltage on the throttle RO is 79 volts. I could not find any 5 cell Li-ion BMS's in the 40A range or even higher but there were some 18v 10A BMS boards. I decided to go without a BMS as the the strings are 7 cells parallel and to charge them a little less than 4.2 v / cell adds a little safety factor of over voltaging a single cell.

Getting an 18 v charger was a problem of another sort as ebike batteries don't add at the groupings of 18v. But Milwaukee's first lithium-ion V18 chargers are some what adaptable. The V18 chargers center wire connects the batteries BMS to the chargers on/off response circuit. The 5 cell Milwaukee v18 charges it cells to 20.44 v whereas the 5 Samsungs can be charged to 21.0 v. To charge my battery I simply hook the 5s7p pack in parallel to one Milwaukee v18 pack that is partially discharged. The chargers center wire[BMS monitor -- the BMS is in the battery pack of 5s1p cells] must be hooked up to both the charger and a working v18 pack that is partially discharged to get the charger to start.

The pack cells were connected by spot welding using both the riba Croatia car battery spot welder and the Chinese 709A 220v spot welder. The battery pack welder is the better choice. This was my first spot welded pack and it took 2.5 hrs to make. It is luxury to get the pack shape you want.

At just <79 volts no frame twisting going on with my simple ad hoc modifications that stabilized the motor frame at 52 v. Noticeable more acceleration. At the end of the day back in town for a flat pavement top end run on a depleted battery the bike did get 42.4 mph beating the previous fully charged 52v battery record of 41.9mph. But drivetrain is now noisier under full acceleration with the added battery pack. And the OEM controller seems good for another day at 79v and some 3000 watts. The battery pack I added is capable of at least 140 amp output so no overworking it with the current controller [42 amps].

See charger setup:

 

[gman1971]

Hooooly smokes Dingus... congrats... but talk about a cable nightmare!! ahhahaa

I did build the DB25 setup for the Trike so charging the packs is a breeze... 42 mph on an upright bike is pretty darn fast!!

This past Friday I managed to get up to 52 mph on the ebike; but conditions were perfect, a 4% downhill with a good tailwind, 48-13T got to 49, that last 48-11T pushed the bike to 52 before I ran out of downhill; this is the first time I've used the 11T cog on this bike... so I am pretty happy.

G.

 

[gman1971]

Well, after two months in the making, here it is:

The Ultimate thrill ride on three wheels. Without pushing it much it got up to 46 mph... So, once I shunt the controller and push it harder it will will most likely shatter the 60 mph barrier... the magic number!

This was not a "simple" lets bolt a Cyclone 3000W motor onto a KMX trike; I could've bolted the motor to the trike 2 months ago in one afternoon and be done with it, but that would've been too easy; besides, I wanted to prove to those pesky Bafang snobs that you can build a Cyclone 3000W bike/trike that doesn't look like a gawd dang contraption... Instead I set out to design and build a road worthy tricycle that doesn't look like a roll of duct tape on three wheels. This trike has every amenity you can think of (well, except air conditioning, unless you count 2/60 AC??, sorry no heated seat either... ), bluetooth? got it, turn signals? got'em, 6500 lumen headlights? got'em; 1200 lumen taillights? check... Luggage compartment? got one; USB charger? chalk that one up. A horn? yup, is got one, and a freaking loud one... Alarm? you betcha. Not installed yet but it will have a Scorpio SR-i900 with proximity sensor. Nobody is getting close to my trike without me knowing. I am already in talks to Adam to purchase his front suspension kit for my trike; and although it wasn't too bad at 46 mph, I can see how it would improve the ride on rough roads.

At 21 Wh/mile it will do about 120 miles on a charge... which is double of what I hoped for, on my initial calculations I was accounting mileage using the 46 Wh/mile of my eBike... I guess this thing pierces the air real good with the fairings I built.

Everything in this thing uses solid state MOSFET switches, motorcycle grade turn signal gear and solid state fuses. It has three voltage regulators and in case of failure other regulators can be rewired to take over the duty of the main 12V rail. Everything in this thing has been thoroughly thought out... I also built a HOTAS (for those who know about military aircraft) for my left hand. Which once I finish hooking some of the extra stuff it will also control the Cycle Analyst from the HOTAS so I don't have to bend over to operate it. I already laid the wiring for it, I just need to get it done; but everything just takes time... dang it.

The charging solution right now is done using a DB25 cable for the balancer, but truthfully, there is no point in fully charging the pack ever... really, with 120 miles range is pretty much no point, so I might just charge them in parallel at 300 watts with the LiLo (4.10 per cell) cutoff voltage and be done with it.

The motor mounting solution is totally custom: I will explain with more details how I did it but this was definitively not your average Cyclone 3000W install. It took almost 16 hours of work to settle for a bulletproof mounting solution.

You can see the cowling where all the electronics are stored inside. This will help with rain and most of the road crap in winter.

Another angle

Some close up of the HOTAS (Hands On Throttle And Stick)

And here is me ready to enjoy the first ride... I couldn't wait to feel the beast for the 1st time!!

On the road... woohooo...

Checking the CA after the test ride... just wow... (Yes I know, I love five finger shoes... )

VIDEO RUNNING:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lArVKGgkwTo

VIDEO OVERVIEW:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFC8MRwvgUM&nohtml5=False


Enjoy, more updates as they happen.

G-man.

 

[juanfeli]

De puta madre Tío!

 

[stealth71]

Nice work gman!!

 

[evolutiongts]

Looking good Gman.

I took my KMX off-road yesterday, it was a blast! Drifting it sideways in the dirt, very fun.

These KMX karts are really something else.

 

[gman1971]

I rode it to work today, kind of a gamble with an untested platform but I knew it would deliver so I went for it. Amazing ride and amazing how quick this thing was off the line. I am running it on mode #3, just like the ebike; and although I have the option to chose this time I really see no reason not to run on any other mode but #3. I ran most of the commute on gear #3 (out of 10), batteries weren't recharged prior to leaving home this morning; pack voltage still well above 67 volts so this thing barely moved. I'll probably recharge the packs to 4 volts tonight when I get home.

I noticed the trike it uses a lot less power to cruise at 30 mph than the eBike did, plus the headwind/sidewind doesn't mean much while riding this. Pedaling along was fairly easy, you just have to watch for the potholes.

The only thing is that I had to watch for cars a lot more, but ironically cars now leave me a LOT of room so its all good.

I have to get the chainguide if I plan on using this on pedal power but for now is operational, so that is just a lower priority. I also have to finish hooking up the few remaining things to the HOTAS, add some custom decals to the cowling and install the alarm. Along with some other misc things.

Pics of it during daylight are coming...

Cheers.

G.

 

[gman1971]

De puta madre Tío!

Gracias tio. It truly was worth the 2 month "lead time" ...

I waited to get the motor last b/c I knew that if I would've just gotten the motor sooner I would've just bolted it and ridden it looking like some contraption captain with things hanging off the trike... so I waited until I had the trike nearly built to get the motor...

G.

 

[gman1971]

More updates.

I finally ordered a chainwheel guide pulley, which will allow me to run the dual chainring at the front; and that will virtually eliminate any chance of the two chains from hitting each other (hasn't happened, but that is one of those thing you don't want to wait for it to happen)

I reccharged the pack to 4.10 volts per cell using LiLo. I am getting low 30s Wh/mile at 30mph average so I think it should be good for quite a while. 2400 Wh capacity / 33 Wh per mile = 72 miles at mph. Took about ~10 hours to recharge from 3.69 to 4.10 @ 300 W so is not too bad.

I had to tighten a few bolts and use red loctite on the rack (was coming lose)

I also had to beef up the hard cases mounting solution and now its rock solid all rattling noises in the back are gone. The two XML2 leds at the back stopped working, didn't like the direct drive so I am off to purchase two more MT-G2 for the back. Those MT-G2 leds are much better for this kind of duty cycle than the XML2... I will probably order the 4000 K color instead of the 5000K, these are going to be behind a red lens cover anyways...

On 3rd gear I managed to hit 40 mph on a downhill. I am basically a 3rd gear only kind of deal, I might try 2nd gear today but I suspect the chain on this thing is going to last a long time.

I do need suspension on the trike. At 30 mph potholes and other crappy road issues are not good.

I also noticed the crajb freewheel might fail. I hear some weird noises coming from inside and I can feel some resistance to the rotation. This is one of those items where you do not want to wait until it fails either. I'll probably swap for a spare I have... but I might use the freewheel that is on my ebike. Could also be related to the chain going throught he wrong side of the 2nd idler wheel... not sure.


G.

 

[adam333]

Great job Gman =)

The overall look is clean and well done. I also like a lot your fairing and the HOTAS.

Just make sure some fresh air can reach the controller so it don't overheat.

Also, 21 Wh/mile is pretty good...

 

[markz]

Can this kit be placed on a Townie 7D with ease?
Its a feet forward kind of bike, but where the crank is, theres a little horizontal bar before it angles upward.

 

[gman1971]

Can this kit be placed on a Townie 7D with ease?
Its a feet forward kind of bike, but where the crank is, theres a little horizontal bar before it angles upward.

Looks like there is plenty of room, I would see what kind of bottom bracket that bike has. If you don't know take the bike to any local bicycle shop and ask them what kind of bottom bracket it has. If it has a regular threaded 68mm, then you're good to go.

G.

 

[gman1971]

Great job Gman =)

The overall look is clean and well done. I also like a lot your fairing and the HOTAS.

Just make sure some fresh air can reach the controller so it don't overheat.

Also, 21 Wh/mile is pretty good...

Hey Adam, thanks! Can't wait to have your suspension on this guy!

Good point on the controller, thanks. I will put a temp sensor on the controller as well as on the motor, or some ducting that will scoop air to cool the controller...

The good thing is that so far I've kept it under 2 kW for most situations; but its easy to let it romp and peak at 3 kW. Gear #2 and Gear #3 are my main gears ATM, (36T and 32T sprockets, on the 42T sprocket it will do 26 mph.. so its all good) Once I work out all the kinks I'll shunt the Cyclone controller to get me 60 amps, which should be a hair short of 4.5 kW at 72V... and then I'll see how close I can get to 60mph.

The freewheel at the crank spewed its guts all over the floor when I was taking it out of the crank. Looks like it came unbolted and what held the innards was so lose that when I took it out of the crank everything came apart... oh well. I replaced it with a spare one I had and used red loctite to hold the stuff together, plus I added a few washer to the mix to prevent any possible unthreading.

The turn signal relay is not flashing when I am running all the headlights and ground lights... sounds like the DC-DC step down is not holding its voltage under load, so I'll investigate this weekend...

I just need to iron the few kinks of what I have now before I tackle more stuff. I have the alarm, the horn and the XHP70 ready to go... just need some time to get it all done and not have to fix stuff.

G.

 

[1KW]

what battery size to commute 28 miles roundtrip with? Would you long month users of the cyclone kit not hesitate, or just get a hub motor...bbshd wouldnt be quick enough for the commute due to 2-3 miles that 35mph would be needed.

 

[gman1971]

what battery size to commute 28 miles roundtrip with? Would you long month users of the cyclone kit not hesitate, or just get a hub motor...bbshd wouldnt be quick enough for the commute due to 2-3 miles that 35mph would be needed.

Hub motor can potentially be a range killer if you have big climbs around your area...

In my 1900 mile experience cruising at 30 mph to work, doing 35 mph average on a conventional upright is going to require around 45 Wh/mile, and that's average, it could be a lot worse depending on wind, height changes, and then there is a 60 miles roundtrip...

Working out the math: 60 miles per day x 45 Wh/mile average = 2700 Wh to cover 60 miles @ 35 mph.

So in battery terms that would translate to either:

61,000 mAh 12S Lipo (44.4V)
40,5400 mAh 18S LiPo (66.6V)

Well, thats a lot of capacity (to put it in perspective thats 300 more Wh than I currently carry on my trike)... it can be done, but your ebike will be more like a battery pack on two wheels than a bicycle. Plus recharging such large pack at 300 watts will take close to 10 hours...

G.

 

[1KW]

my bad, 30 miles would be 15 there and 15 back. So essential half. If I can cut down the cruising to say 25-28 when needed it should be doable with 16ah?

 

[juanfeli]

I use 2x 6S 16000mAh Multistar. I have ridden with very light pedaling 17 miles with 300 feet of elevation at an average of 25 mi/h on a 29er.
At the end there was around 30% or 20% left in the batteries.

 

[gman1971]

my bad, 30 miles would be 15 there and 15 back. So essential half. If I can cut down the cruising to say 25-28 when needed it should be doable with 16ah?

If you go with just 16,000 you'll most likely need a charger at work @ 35 mph. That will be charging packs twice a day.

So even with 16,000 mAh you'll be pushing it to get 30 miles of range even at 25 mph; Lithium packs hate to be pushed when low in capacity. I would go with at least 20,000 mAh, no less; a 30 mile round trip commute is a significant distance. You also need to consider batteries will degrade real fast once you start charging them twice a day; to shed some light my 2 6S Multistar 12,000 Lipos have almost 200 cycles on them now and I can tell you they don't hold the voltage as good as they did when new; so plan for gradual capacity reduction after the first 50 cycles or so; and if you live in a cold climate factor a 20% capacity reduction due to cold temps... LiPos hate cold.

My round trip to work is ~17 miles and riding my upright ebike it takes around 18,000 mAh on average @ ~30 mph average. This is the reason why I built the trike with 80 mile range, so I don't have to recharge batteries twice a day, now it will be more like once or twice a week, so the packs will last a very long time.

G.

 

[gman1971]

I use 2x 6S 16000mAh Multistar. I have ridden with very light pedaling 17 miles with 300 feet of elevation at an average of 25 mi/h on a 29er.
At the end there was around 30% or 20% left in the batteries.

Again, that's not enough for a 30 mile round trip on motor alone without recharging at work. I would assume 1,000 mAh per 1 mile.

G.

 

[juanfeli]

G, have you or have plans to plug your CA to the Cyclone Controller or shunt?

 

[gman1971]

G, have you or have plans to plug your CA to the Cyclone Controller or shunt?

Not at the moment. I am using the CA external shunt on the trike, but since the controller is inside the body I might get to do some more interesting things this time around. Not sure, right now I am still working out the kinks of the setup, but so far looks like its holding real well.

The new freewheel is holding well, no issues at all. I am getting more comfortable taking fast turns with the trike, and I did today one roundabout at 30 mph without much of a worry of tipping; in fact, I think the motor up front has made the trike way more stable at speed since there is more weight over the front wheels. Definitively feels like a race car... its very quick off the line so it surprises all cars when I punch if off the line and it just jumps ahead; I've managed to keep up with a car that was gunning it up to 35 mph, after 40 mph the trike seems to accelerate much slower. Today I also put the trike at 50 mph without even trying on a small downhill. I suspect that on 4.5 kW it will definitively break 50 mph on flats, and while it might or might not be able to break the magic 60 on flats I am sure it will do 60 with ease on slight downhills around here. Problem with going that fast tho is that the batteries drain FAST... and even with 70 mile range, going past 30mph you start to really eat the range away. Right now I think the baggy wind cutting pants and my baggy bright orange coat are not helping my aero; plus the two hard cases on the back are also taking its toll. I'll probably test the trike this weekend with light clothes and no hard cases to see how fast I can get it on 3 kW, then it will be mod the shunt of the controller to get 4.5 kW.

On another note, I had to replace the two rear XML led emitters for a single MT-G2, which puts about 3000 lumens, so it is a heck of a lot brighter and less messy than the two XML in series (plus now I only need one housing)

I can safely say that at the speed I am cruising (30mph average) it will do about 70 miles on a single charge so I am happy with the results. That's basically 4 days commute without recharging... not bad.

I am getting around 30-35 Wh/mile with 30 mph cruise or around ~50 Km/h for those SI people out there. You can definitively tell it takes a lot less power to cruise at 30mph than the eBike did, and especially so when there is any headwind. On my eBike on a windy day it would take about 1600 watts to cruise at 30mph (if you could get there), on the trike, on a similar windy day it takes less than 1000 watts to easily cruise at 30.

G.

 

[le15otl]

1KW, my regular commute is almost exactly 28 miles. I use 2x multistar 20000mah 6s in series and its been pretty good. I only use max 17ah of the batt on the ~28 mile roundtrip in a hilly area averaging about 30mph.
I'd recommend the same battery capacity to be sure you can run the trip reliably and without draining the battery very low each run.
Alternatively 4 x 10ah 6s instead since i think they are on offer at hobbyking now

Of course range depends on your/bike weight and the terrain etc, but i reckon you'd be safe with 12s 20ah