New Member - Maryland ebiker - Build Advice

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So the Dell laptop battery isn't too shabby. Price isn't the greatest but its better than buying new... This is where I got it: http://www.ebay.com/itm/322364758511?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

From 2 battery tests, I calculate the capacity to be around 1750-1900mAh which isn't too far off the 2000mAh supposed rating...
 
I'm also in Bethesda. Ha who would have guessed. Guess I'm not as stealthy as I think. I believe I'd be taking some of the Bethesda Trolley Trail to work and as I get closer down to Battery Ln. I might either take sidewalks into downtown or that trail that goes upto bethesda row... Never biked it so I dunno yet.

Yeah, I know all those areas.
I built my first ebike in 2009.
Funny story, I was browsing in Big Wheel Bikes, when I saw this mountain bike all dusty and neglected in the corner and I asked the sales guy about it. "Yeah, it's a 2003, we lost it in the warehouse and we just dug it out :roll:
It had a big triangle space for batteries, so I bought it for half of the new MSRP(in '03).
I still have it, although it has undergone 4 or 5 motor/battery changes;
100_0076.JPG
But that first build was just a frt. geared mini-motor and a good "rack battery" and although it only did 22 to 23 mph, I rode it all over Beth. and DC. The bike paths over towards Chev. Chase/Kens., the Canal paths, Beach Dr. on weekends and, Breach Dr. at nite when it was closed :D The Capt Park Pol. never bothered me.
I rarely rode on sidewalks or in the traffic lanes, one learns to to pick one's routes, that's half the fun. As far as hills were concerned, there were only a few in Gtown, but there is always a way around them.
All of which brings me to my point.
There are two types of ebikes, those that go up to 25 mph and those which go (much) faster.
The sub 25 mph(assist) bikes retain their bicycle feel, can be built for low cost w/ less ebike dedicated accessories.
Ebike that go safely(sort of)30, 35mph and faster are a whole different animal.
35mph on a bicycle is way fast and pretty soon the rider is thinking about bigger brakes, wider wheels and tires for stability, involved gearing to try and pedal along and more battery(speed takes lot's of batt.). Costs start to snowball.
W/ a commute of only 5 miles, you don't need anything more than a 350 Watt geared mini-motor, even if that means changing your proposed route to stay off busy roads. In fact, you will start to explore different(longer)routes, because ebiking is so much fun you don't want to arrive home yet.
All the time here, we hear about the $600 build that goes 35 mph, but don't think that is something you want, or can, do for long. You don't need the speed, or if you do, buy a motorcycle. Yeah, there are guys on here that have Ebikes that go 40 plus mph and they ride in traffic. But they are Pros and have $1000's invested in their rides. gcindc is one.
Here is a $1000 mini-motor bike I just built;
100_0107.JPG
It goes 20 to 22 mph, is dead Quiet and nobody realizes it's an ebike. I use LiPoly and there's 8Ah packed into the sm. frame bags and water bottle(about 15 mile range, depending on how hard I pedal). I bought the mint cond. 2007 GT bike(Quality bike made in Taiwan) on Craigs. for $350. Used mountain bikes are the best value in ebiking. The ones more than 5 years old w/ 26" wheels are considered obsolete by the serious MB guys and can be had for a song. So if your donor bike doesn't work out, don't give up, save up a little more and start watching Craigs. You'll be glad you did.

P.S. If you are interested in this type of ebike, this would be a good thread to ck. out;
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=49691
 
@rumme:
I'm curious; in a post above, you say both of the following, after specifically advising the OP to get solid inner tubes in a previous post, and it doesn't make any sense, because the first thing you say in a post after he asks how they ride is this:

rumme said:
Forget the solid inner tubes. I tried them and wasn't impressed.

Then later in the same post you say:



Also consider this, the solid air free tires will not only alleviate ANY flat tire problems, but it will mean you will have to carry less tools to deal with flat tires...pumps, axle wrench, patches, glue , extra tube..etc.

Now that I am riding a electric fatbike , my biggest pain in the ass issue is flat tires...I never had the concern with my Giant 700 c electric bike . It had 2 amerityres 700c solid tires on it.

<snip>

Ignore the naysayers who will tell you that going with solid tires isn't worth it. For your needs, I think it is the perfect setup.
 
rumme said:
Heck I was considering if I could get maybe a used or cheap hub motor 250-300w front and 250-500w on the back... Those look to be really low profile and could be a great option. I'll just have to keep my eyes pealed for a good deal on ebay.
There are also some deals in the Items For Sale - New and - Used sections here on ES.
 
So little deviation to my original plan...

I'm now looking at These: https://www.fasttech.com/products/6499503

Seems to have amazing capacity and plenty of discharge... And best thing too is the price... Looks like compared to the Samsung ICR18650-26F batteries that I was originally planning on doing would be $150 for this, and ~$130 for these... I could even get a few extra to weed out the bad ones... Hopefully 15% off at fasttech will come out here in a little bit and I can get them all for $110 which is a steal deal!

I'm planning on just a 26 cell battery which with the 5000mAh for each cell, that should get me 10Ah like I need...

I can still use a 13S bms correct? on 26 cells?
 
amberwolf said:
@rumme:
I'm curious; in a post above, you say both of the following, after specifically advising the OP to get solid inner tubes in a previous post, and it doesn't make any sense, because the first thing you say in a post after he asks how they ride is this:

rumme said:
Forget the solid inner tubes. I tried them and wasn't impressed.

Then later in the same post you say:



Also consider this, the solid air free tires will not only alleviate ANY flat tire problems, but it will mean you will have to carry less tools to deal with flat tires...pumps, axle wrench, patches, glue , extra tube..etc.

Now that I am riding a electric fatbike , my biggest pain in the ass issue is flat tires...I never had the concern with my Giant 700 c electric bike . It had 2 amerityres 700c solid tires on it.

<snip>

Ignore the naysayers who will tell you that going with solid tires isn't worth it. For your needs, I think it is the perfect setup.


Another poster said " forget the solid tires " ...I just quoted his statement and replied .

I am a huge fan of solid air free tires for any bicycle that will be used on flat surfaces where the rider needs reassurance of never having a flat tire to make them late for work/ appointments, etc. This is especially true for the O.P., since he said he only weighs 160 lbs. The big key in using air free tires is making sure you have a well made rim and properly adjusted spokes and do not hit potholes or go trail riding. If the O.P. was gonna be doing any of those things, or if he weighed 280 lbs, then I would agree that solid air free tires may not be a god choice.
 
Philaphlous said:
So little deviation to my original plan...

I'm now looking at These: https://www.fasttech.com/products/6499503

Seems to have amazing capacity and plenty of discharge... And best thing too is the price... Looks like compared to the Samsung ICR18650-26F batteries that I was originally planning on doing would be $150 for this, and ~$130 for these... I could even get a few extra to weed out the bad ones... Hopefully 15% off at fasttech will come out here in a little bit and I can get them all for $110 which is a steal deal!

I'm planning on just a 26 cell battery which with the 5000mAh for each cell, that should get me 10Ah like I need...

I can still use a 13S bms correct? on 26 cells?

You mentioned you wanted a geared hub motor. I sent you a PM .
 
There's a slim chance we may end up living in the city which then could bring my commute down to <4.5mi and mostly city streets/sidewalks. If that ends up happening I'm considering more the geared hub route since it is supposed to have better torque and riding ability. Where I stand right now, if I end up riding to work which is still an if, the quicker non-geared might be a better bet.

I think I'm going to start out with a small "backup" battery using the laptop cells I've harvested. It seems they can actually hold a decent capacity somewhere in the 1750-1950mAh according to my calculations... I'll build just a quick little 3Ah pack with 26 cells to test out how well I can put cells together before I spend all the money on the bigger cells...Yea it'll cost more money but I'll get some good practice in soldering and wiring everything up.
 
rumme said:
Another poster said " forget the solid tires " ...I just quoted his statement and replied .

No other posters in this thread prior to your post said that, so I'm curious where it's quoted from. I couldn't find any instances of the quote anywhere on the forum other than here, either (in your two posts and my one):
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=%22forget+the+solid%22&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search


Also note that in your post it is not in a quote or using quotation marks, so it is written as if you were saying it yourself.

I'm only even bringing this up at all because it doesn't make sense that you would say something and then contradict yourself. It can be important to use quotations correctly so people don't misunderstand you.
 
I need to create a poll...

I'm trying to decide between the two battery packs! Advice would be appreciated

Both Batteries are 48V 10Ah

1. Samsung ICR18650-26F - This would be a 52 cell battery for 10Ah along with a 13S controller. Max amp draw I'd see per cell would be about 4.5A which would set me around 1000w at a full charge... I could see upto probably 5A per cell. I'd be purchasing these: https://www.fasttech.com/products/0/10002357/6499800-authentic-samsung-icr18650-26f-3-7v-2600mah which would total around $150 for the battery.

2. LiitoKala 26650 3.6V 5000mAh - This would be a smaller 26cell design that would still be 10Ah with a 13S controller. Max amp draw I'd see per cell could be all the way upto 9-10A which kinda gets me worried since that's pretty high per cell... I also believe I've calculated this correctly since it'd be 13 cells in series.

I'm also looking at some ebay deals on battery lots to maybe see if I can get some laptop batteries and find some good cells from them also...you know. the super cheap way. The new battery pack that I bought would be around $1.56 per cell and the capacity is at least 1750mAh so it's not terrible but I'm hoping maybe some genuine used packs could get me around 2000mAh...we'll see.
 
amberwolf said:
rumme said:
Another poster said " forget the solid tires " ...I just quoted his statement and replied .

No other posters in this thread prior to your post said that, so I'm curious where it's quoted from. I couldn't find any instances of the quote anywhere on the forum other than here, either (in your two posts and my one):
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=%22forget+the+solid%22&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=all&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search


Also note that in your post it is not in a quote or using quotation marks, so it is written as if you were saying it yourself.

I'm only even bringing this up at all because it doesn't make sense that you would say something and then contradict yourself. It can be important to use quotations correctly so people don't misunderstand you.


I see the confusion now.

SOLID INNER TUBES VS SOLID TIRES.

The solid inner tubes, I tried, and wasn't impressed.

The solid tires, I used for 2 years, and loved them.

One poster responded that they tried the solid TIRES for 1 minute, and hated them.
 
docw009 said:
I've never owned a front hub motor, so what do I know, but why front hub?

A front wheel is less compromised structurally by having a hub motor.

A front motor results in wheels that are more equally loaded, especially when combined​ with a front battery.

Using a front hub motor avoids​ drivetrain compatibility issues. Use whatever number and range of speeds you like.

Front hub plus rear pedal drive = 2WD.

Front hub cables can be shorter and simpler than rear hub cables, minimizing weight, clutter, and resistance losses.

Front hub conversion is mechanically easier, and switching back and forth between pedal-only and motor assist is less complicated.

As for the OP's questions, yes a front hub motor is totally adequate to do a five mile commute, a rigid MTB is fine, and complying with your location's limitations on e-bikes will still get you to work faster and better than your car. Please don't ride on sidewalks when you have practicable alternatives (which isn't always, I know), and please don't go faster than normal bikes when you're on a bike path or bike lane.

You might have a faster bike with a big heavy motor and a big heavy battery, but you'll have a better bike and a better ride with a lightweight motor and battery. It's something to consider.

If you load up a bike with lots of power and weight, so it's no good to pedal and thus you ride it like a motorcycle, then what you have is a weak, crappy little motorcycle. But if you have a normal bike with a little extra boost to get you there​ faster with less effort, then you still reap all the benefits of cycle commuting-- with healthy, mood-improving, stress-relieving exercise built into your daily routine. You could easily be a lot happier in the long run with a bike that's totally legal where you live.

Edit:

Oh, and about those foam tires? Garbage. They ride terribly and beat your wheels to pieces. If it were that easy, it would be very common. But it's not, because solid tires suck.
 
rumme said:
SOLID INNER TUBES VS SOLID TIRES.

The solid inner tubes, I tried, and wasn't impressed.

The solid tires, I used for 2 years, and loved them.

One poster responded that they tried the solid TIRES for 1 minute, and hated them.
Ah. Could you post some links to the tires you are using, and the tubes you did not like?

I have not seen solid tires, only the tubes that can be put inside regular tires.

(well, I've seen "solid" tires decades ago but they were basically just solid rubber with what looked like cored-out holes radially thru the tread, on kids' bikes; I've never used them, just the solid tubes, which are problematic for my purposes).

Is there a wide selection of solid tire treads by the manufacturer you use? (if there is only one tread available, it may not suit everyone's riding needs, even just on the street).
 
amberwolf said:
rumme said:
SOLID INNER TUBES VS SOLID TIRES.

The solid inner tubes, I tried, and wasn't impressed.

The solid tires, I used for 2 years, and loved them.

One poster responded that they tried the solid TIRES for 1 minute, and hated them.
Ah. Could you post some links to the tires you are using, and the tubes you did not like?

I have not seen solid tires, only the tubes that can be put inside regular tires.

(well, I've seen "solid" tires decades ago but they were basically just solid rubber with what looked like cored-out holes radially thru the tread, on kids' bikes; I've never used them, just the solid tubes, which are problematic for my purposes).

Is there a wide selection of solid tire treads by the manufacturer you use? (if there is only one tread available, it may not suit everyone's riding needs, even just on the street).

I believe I purchased amerityre , but I think there are other brands on the market now.

I used the 700c solid tire and for flat road driving, I loved them. Used them for about 2 years, and never had to worry about a flat.
Are they a bit different then normal tube tires ? Of course they are . But when used on flat roads or the side of highways for commutting, I loved em. They also last a lot longer then normal tires, as far as the tread wear.

I know Chalo hates them, and that's fine, but IMHO they have many benefits when used for the correct situations. If you install them on a strong rim, properly spoked and don't go offroad and do jumps over curbs , they are a good alternative when flat tires are trying to be COMPLETELY avoided.
 
Chalo said:
docw009 said:
I've never owned a front hub motor, so what do I know, but why front hub?


Oh, and about those foam tires? Garbage. They ride terribly and beat your wheels to pieces. If it were that easy, it would be very common. But it's not, because solid tires suck.

I have found most people who claim they are garbage, have never used them, or used them improperly. I got over 2 years of use from solid tires in a 700 c GIANT hybrid ebike.

I imagine some people who try them, think they can go off road or jump curbs with them . I used them as they were intended, for finished/flat road/highway use and loved them. It took away the biggest headache of using a bicycle/ebike.

FLATS.....Now that Ive moved onto electric fatbikes, I do miss the days of NEVER having to worry about
a flat tire , carrying a extra tube, a pump , patches, glue , tools ,etc. This is the peace of mind solid air tires can give, when used for the correct bicycling situations.
 
I have dealt with problems and maintenance on literally thousands of bikes during my many years as a cycle mechanic, but I've only encountered a handful of foam tires. Every single one of the bikes that was fitted with them had major wheel problems-- flat spotted rims, loose spokes, and worse. Not one of them had wheels that withstood the beating from such tires.

Tires are suspension for your wheels. The loads applied at the contact patch get distributed all around the wheel by a pneumatic tire. A foam tire loads just the part of the rim directly over the contact patch. It's the difference between a wheel that endures normal use reliably and one that doesn't.
 
I'll probably start out on air tires and maybe if I can get some more $$ toward it, try out some airless tires or foam innertubes...

So back to battery talk...lol


Looks like there's going to be a 10% off easter sale at fasttech. I already have 13 batteries for 1 48v bank, 9 of the laptop 2000mah batteries and 4 samsung ICR18650-30A batteries. That should make around a 1.75-2Wh 48V bank, then I'll hopefully pick up half or the entire rest of the batteries I need with the easter sale. My 48V charger is on the way and I'm also looking at some pretty cool watt/amp/volt gauges also... Still no ETA on when I'll actually get the bike...lol
 
Have you guys seen a custom made battery housing that fits around the frame of the bike? What I mean by that is like a 3/4 U shaped battery that will sit on top of the main top frame rail... That way it'll be big, secure, and somewhat concealed as it will look like a beefy part of the bike...
I've been looking at battery housing designs and none really appeal to me.. I'm hoping to make a U shaped battery housing with fiberglass mat/cloth and house all 56 cells along with the 13s BMS...

Also, deans ultra connectors ok or something else is better?
 
There is a whole thread full of homemade battery boxes
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12847&hilit=show+us+battery
, if you need ideas. :)
 
Just saw my 2nd ebike this past weekend. Must have been a small little geared 250w motor but the bike was definitely a custom ebike since it had a spot for the battery. Guess I'm not alone!

I'm going to get as many 18650 cells possible and see if I can get a battery pack over 10Ah. More cells will give me less current draw per cell which is good. I've also read that some people have used desoldering wick as their battery soldering connector. That sounds like a great low resistance option and I'll go down that route.
 
Ok so progress is under way!!!

Items I currently have now:
1. 60w soldering iron with multiple tips
2. 60/40 solder
3. Hot Glue gun and 25 sticks of glue
4. IIRC 84 18650 cells currently, expecting 21 more for a total of 105. I'll eliminate some bad cells and keep just the best for my 91 cell battery
5. 150A power analyzer - Includes Watts, amps, volts, all the good stuff!
6. Basic 2.5A 48V charger.

And this is where my question begins...

It's going to take a HECK of a long time to charge my battery with only 1 2.5A 48V charger... Would it be possible to wire 2 chargers in parallel so I can double my amperage? On the out for the BMS to the charger, could I split the cable and have 2 charging ports? Is that possible? I want to have them in parallel and not series..lol that'd be a nice fail...

I was originally thinking a fiberglass battery housing would be excellent for my needs...however, after taking a trip to the hardware store I'm no longer convinced... The fiberglass is pricey and would take a heck of amount of time to build the actual mold and everything for it. I'm still working on a solution. Possibly a piece of plastic pipe or bent lexan plastic sheeting shaped into the battery shape I'm looking for...not sure. My whole idea is to have all the wires self contained in the battery case so I can easily attach and detach the battery with ease...
 
There is a thread in the Battery section for Show Us Your Homemade Battery Housing with many ways to build them, if you need ideas. It's linked in my previous post for you.


Some chargers share current well, and some don't. The Meanwell HLG PSUs I have share just fine. The generic chargers I tried once before did not--only one of them ever provided current at a time, though either would work separately just fine. I don't know exactly why, but I expect it has to do with how they sense voltage and decide how much current they should be putting out based on that.
 
Hey guys. Going to get my bike shipped tomorrow so I should have it next week! With that I also ordered my hub motor kit and a few bike mods. Ordered a new front tire and inner tube. Speedometer, and thumb gear shifter for my right hand. I definitely want to get a new handlebar but I've read my bike is so old the standard handlebar diameter isn't the same. It's an old but in really good condition trek 80c. It's similar to the trek 800 which at this point is a vintage bike. I believe the frame is steel and should be pretty sturdy. I really want to get a new stem and riser bar along with a new handlebar but I'm not sure how the stock handlebar that goes into the fork works....
 
Front 1000w motor, solid tires... a bike that only one rider out of hundreds will like.

Of all the riders I know, not a single one did like riding solid tires. More than half of those who build a first bike with a front hub, will build a second with a rear hub.

Give yourself a chance. Build a receipt that pleases the most ebike riders. On a frame like yours, add a short travel suspension fork, even a used one will do fine. Buy a good suspension seatpost, because you won't be standing on the pedals anymore. Use a rear motor and torque arms each side or best, make your own torque plates. Buy wider, better tires than those that are on the bike, and don't ride them high PSI. Fit the battery in the front triangle, either in a frame bag or a dolphin case. You don't need a big battery to ride 10 miles, so no reason to be cheap: make it with the best cells. High C rate cells will last longer, and let you upgrade the power when the day comes that you feel for more. You will not need as many gears as there is on the bike, simplify.

Post a pic when your bike is completed.
 
MadRhino said:
Front 1000w motor, solid tires... a bike that only one rider out of hundreds will like.

Of all the riders I know, not a single one did like riding solid tires. More than half of those who build a first bike with a front hub, will build a second with a rear hub.

Give yourself a chance. Build a receipt that pleases the most ebike riders. On a frame like yours, add a short travel suspension fork, even a used one will do fine. Buy a good suspension seatpost, because you won't be standing on the pedals anymore. Use a rear motor and torque arms each side or best, make your own torque plates. Buy wider, better tires than those that are on the bike, and don't ride them high PSI. Fit the battery in the front triangle, either in a frame bag or a dolphin case. You don't need a big battery to ride 10 miles, so no reason to be cheap: make it with the best cells. High C rate cells will last longer, and let you upgrade the power when the day comes that you feel for more. You will not need as many gears as there is on the bike, simplify.

Post a pic when your bike is completed.


Thanks for the advice. Just a few things...

1. I did purchase a rear hub. The front hubs look really dorky to me and having rear wheel drive only sounds practical to me...
2. I thought about the airless/solid innertube but 1 the inner tubes were as expensive as the tire... and I've heard other people mentioning they don't like how it rides. So I figured I'll give my try at regular inflated tires and try that for a change.
3. I think I'll need a wheel spoke wrench... I'm 99% sure when I get my bike the tires will be crap..
4. Do I also need these "rim tape" or spoke protectors???? http://www.ebay.com/itm/26-Mountain-Bike-Rubber-Bicycle-Rim-Tape-Inner-Tube-Protector-Spoke-Wheel-Strip-/351827237571?hash=item51ea899ac3:g:cRsAAOSwOdpXx8lu
5. Even though I have a Trek 80C, I'm pretty sure the 80C (sport) is almost the same as the 800... I'm trying to find out the diameter of the handlebar before I have the bike. Any advice? I believe its around a 2002 model... https://www.bicyclebluebook.com/searchlistingdetail.aspx?id=37561 Well, just found the technical manual for the 800 which says 25.4mm going to go with that!
 
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