Norco Empire 5, 80100, HV140, Neugart

[Timma2500]

This bike was my 1st ebike build some years ago but due to the Banebots planetary gearbox constantly breaking, it didn't last long before i sold off the Astro 8150 i used and built another bike using a more reliable Cyclone system.

The time has come to start rebuilding the bike along similar lines but with a few key changes.

Specs: C80-100 130kv motor (unmodified), HV140 esc, 12s lipo 12 or 15ah lipo, CA RC current limited to 5kw, Neugart 5:1 planetary gearbox, TryAll ISIS 170mm trials cranks, 128mm Truvativ DH bb, Eno crank freewheel, 2 x 34t crank chain rings, 11t-34t Shimano XT 9spd cassette.
Frame details will include scoops for motor and esc cooling, internally mounted CA and internal cable routing an extended wheelbase to 1200mm

Driveline will consist of primary HD #25 chain and 25t / 40t sprockets, the 5:1 PLE80 gearbox, 14t / 34t Cyclone freewheel to cranks.
I could have used smaller #25 sprockets but chose to keep the tooth count up higher to minimise wear on the smaller motor sprocket.
It will also have an idler / tensioner to maximise wrap around on the motor sprocket for the same reason.

Gearing will be higher (19.428 : 1 total reduction) than the original bike and the Cyclone bike for a few reasons. I won't be doing massively steep hills with the bike due to the HV140, i don't want to load it up at slow speeds. Secondly, i noticed with my other chain drive bikes that they suffered from chain skip in the higher gears over rough ground at highish speed due to the low tooth count in 8th and 9th gears. This time around i'm gearing it to get the same speed in 6th gear (17t) that the others did in 9th gear (11t). The remaining 3 gears will be used for chasing Kim when he finishes rebuilding his cruiser :wink:

The downside is i won't be able to match cadence with the motor at its higher rpms but thats fine

Speed in gears at WOT, based on 85% no load motor speed @ 47v:

1st: 32kph / 20mph
2nd: 36kph / 23mph
3rd: 42kph / 26mph
4th: 47kph / 29mph
5th: 54kph / 34mph
6th: 64kph / 40mph
7th: 73kph / 46mph
8th: 84kph / 53mph
9th: 99kph / 62mph














View attachment 3



I'm now sorting out frame details and should be starting the chop next week or the week after.

Target weight will be 23 - 25kg with 12ah.

Paul

 

[kfong]

Nice work as usual!

 

[Spicerack]

Keep it coming Paul! I'd love to do the same...just spare funds are a problem- especially for the neugart drive!

 

[Whiplash]

I'm curious about this drive setup now that we have a fairly reliable setup with the RC/CA. I might have to blow the dust off the 63/74..

 

[Timma2500]

Thanks guys

Andynogo - tell me 'bout it, it was over $100 in freight alone from the States...

Whip - start blowing that dust buddy! And upsize to an 80100 :wink:


Paul

 

[Ratking]

Looking forward to see this build. Don't be shy with pictures and info.

Your weight goal is also very impressive. I think mine is close to 45kg, but that is with two motors, controllers and 20Ah 44.4v etc. Getting close to half that is not bad. Not bad at all

 

[rodgah]

good news Paul

I'm too broke to get mine finished. The frame needs to be changed and I think its too far gone to cut up and start again so another donor frame is needed . I may still make a BB mount enclosure for it who knows :lol: . Will be good to see how yours gos though, full steam ahead.

Rodger

 

[dingoEsride]

Looking forward to seeing another impressive build Paul and this one should sound better than the coffee grinder cyclone motor

 

[Timma2500]

Looking forward to see this build. Don't be shy with pictures and info.
Your weight goal is also very impressive. I think mine is close to 45kg, but that is with two motors, controllers and 20Ah 44.4v etc. Getting close to half that is not bad. Not bad at all

I'll try to keep it as detailed a build as possible.

Weight goal was a rough guess so i'll tally up some weights:

Starting bike (original bike): 15.5kg
New frame insert: 2 - 2.5kg
Motor + Neugart: approx 3.9kg
12s 12ah nano lipo: 4kg
Misc parts - CA RC, ESC, wiring, sprockets etc: 1.5 - 2kg

= 27kg - 28kg with good weight distribution. I'm happy with that considering my M3 bike will go up to 38kg next week with 15ah 20s on board (up from 10ah).
They will be two very different bikes though, the Slope Style Norco has only 5" of rear suspension travel / air shock, the DH Intense has 9.5" / long coil shock, mid drive weight distribution vs heavy hub motor etc. Considering you have two motors, controllers, 20ah etc, 45kg is pretty good, especially with the power its capable of! 8)

good news Paul
I'm too broke to get mine finished. The frame needs to be changed and I think its too far gone to cut up and start again so another donor frame is needed . I may still make a BB mount enclosure for it who knows . Will be good to see how yours gos though, full steam ahead.

Hey mate, how is the sunny coast treating ya? Bugger, in what way does the frame need modifying? I thought you had all that sorted? Yeah this one will be fun but maybe a bit brutal :lol:

Looking forward to seeing another impressive build Paul and this one should sound better than the coffee grinder cyclone motor

Cheers Mark. Yeah it'll be quicker than the Cyclone bike but due to the HV160 / 80100, it wont be as smooth or user friendly either.
Sound wise, it'll be interesting to see (hear?) what it sounds like with the planetary gearbox, prob not much different to the coffee grinder Cyclone!

The HV160 above is no typo, i ordered a HV160 ICE2 yesterday mainly for its data logging.


Paul

 

[rodgah]

Hey mate, how is the sunny coast treating ya? Bugger, in what way does the frame need modifying? I thought you had all that sorted? Yeah this one will be fun but maybe a bit brutal

Sunny....pitty the surf is flat every time Im home . I dont want to use the mega wide BB, and since the frame is 110mm wide there is no way I can use a standard width BB unless there's a chain somewhere that bends corners :lol: . In some respects I have given up on the idea since the GNG kits have come out, but I know that power level wouldn't interest me for very long.

 

[Timma2500]

Could you use a similar DH 128mm bb to what this bike uses? Its a little wider than standard but not as wide as the cyclone style units...

Nah you don't wana go GNG, stick with the higher HP outrunner :wink:


Paul

 

[crossbreak]

Nah you don't wana go GNG, stick with the higher HP outrunner :wink:

I can sign that but you high power guys have to upgrade your drivetrain. The GNG does about the most a regular one can take, the tiny sprockets at the wheel just melt. You should get one step further and drive the rear wheel directly from the motor.

 

[mwkeefer]

While I'm in chase of a nice build up like the Norco (am actually here looking for banebot transmission information CIM80 specifically) perhaps as a second stage reduction but then I see some neat mach up of a radial drive pushing gears on the bottom bracket and think only... Now why doesn't that actually mount (optionally) to the bottom bracket in addition to the down tube (just random whirring)... then I see a knock on GNG?

GNG is a lot of things but look at alternatives in non hubbie variety:

Complicated and expensive reductions
Expensive motors (Astro's are worth it, don't get me wrong)
A world of work and assembly and experimenting (which can be fun)
That's only for a left side drive presuming you go as simply as a Recumpence v4 drive and eliminate mounting and primary reduction issues
I forgot batteries...

Now look at GNG - Stock version 1.0
I have bolted onto Dahon 7 speed and used stock controller - as of now the connections for the halls are soldered and insulated but I ran out of time so the Phase lines are stripped folded and rammed into their respective ports on the stock controller - this I believe has caused some irradic behavior and much as I want to replace the controller with a 6 fet lyen programmed my way... I still want to collect the data of my various power levels.
One of the RPM sensors I'm using (Gave up on EagleTree mostly as they don't do what I want, wrote my own logging to an SD card or streaming over TCP/IP) monitors Motor RPM, Rider Cadence, Bike Attitude and Orientation (Incline, Decline, Direction NSEW)...
Long story I have lots of work to do but I can attest the stock controller managing 15 and even 16S without issue.. Id stay at 15 without a CAP upgrade and perhaps the low voltage rail recalculated but all in all it's a great solution - it's got issues, so does everything ... for the 8lbs a stock system weighs in at - I'm willing to live with it as a 400.00 starting point.

That said - Im still in search of the right bike FS or HT to build a dual Davinci drive system onto as my final build... for myself

-Mike

 

[bose]

Hi Timma2500,

Seems as if you built a pretty solid crank freewheel setup there with your own spacers. Remember that there were some more details on that in your old thread that now lacks information. Could you please post some details of the chainring and freewheel setup here? Like closer pics on the back and in between?

Are both your chain rings hanging on the inside of the freewheel? Is there a particular reason not to put one on each side?

Cheers!

 

[Architectonic]

This is still one of the coolest bikes on ES, just wondering how you were going with it?