Off-The-Shelf Ebike. Worth it?

[JuiceMeUp]

Over the I've last decade, I've built a number of DIY e-bikes.
Several Hub drives and 2 mid-drives. All in the 2 - 5 KW range, retrofitted to DH style bikes.
They are all gone now as my Surron has been so awesome to get my e-fix on.

I'm now thinking of something a bit more accepted by the wider community. Something with pedals that doesn't look like a garage experiment, and rides more naturally.

I'm thinking about something like a Levo or similar and de-restricting it (yeah, I know warranty, blah blah. Lets skip over that bit)

I thought I'd ask a community of DIYers if any of you have gone down this route and what you think of the modern Off-The-Shelf bikes that are now on offer.
Do you have one? Do you regret buying it and sold it soon after? Do you find it a great alternative to a high powered home build?

 

[amberwolf]

You might look at similar threads, like some of the ones in this list:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=build+buy&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search

 

[Drunkskunk]

" S-Works Turbo Levo SL $13,525
....doubles your effort with as much as 240 watts of silent and powerful assistance...."

I have no problem paying a premium price for a premium product, however I insist that the product actually be premium.

I also have no problem with off-the-shelf ebikes, either. I even bought one once. Granted, I so modified, altered, abused, torched, cut, sawed, and hammered that thing until it was a true Frankenstein build, then cut apart and used in several other ebike builds and a door stop. The thing I found is, as a builder, I would never be happy with something dreamed up in a marketing committee to appeal to the widest audience possible, cost the least possible to achieve a good ROI, and was "safe" enough to be both legal and not get the company sued. I want more quality, fun, and danger in my bikes. I also need to tinker.

I'd say go for it, but pick something good.

 

[MadRhino]

I have built many ebikes too, and very powerful ones for dirt and street. While I never reconsidered replacing my fast street commuter for anything else, I too have been thinking of a Levo to ride the mountain in a near future. My dirt bike is wonderful, but there are many reasons that are making me think that my days speeding the trails in our mountain are soon over.

First I have tried the late Levo and really enjoyed the ride.

Second, they are promoting and organizing the mountain for tourists for many years now, and it is getting difficult to find riding hours when the trails are clear of tourists,trekkers and dog walkers. I have to ride at 5 or 6 AM now, or very bad weather.

Third, I will be 73 in july. I am still in very good shape and look 20 yrs younger, but I have no illusions. Every crash reminds me that sooner or later, my age will catch up and show on my old bones.

Fourth, well, the money doesn’t follow us in the grave. What is 10K worth today...

I am waiting... want to try the new Santa Cruz ebike built on the Heckler. Santa Cruz and Specialized always been my favorite rides. Not buying one without trying the other.

 

[markz]

Them "legal" watt's are not enough power, thats why the bbshd is nice to install on a nice brand name bicycle.

 

[MadRhino]

Them "legal" watt's are not enough power, thats why the bbshd is nice to install on a nice brand name bicycle.

The Levo that I have tried was feeding 565w at max setting and weighted 17kg. Probably can be tweaked to 750 without any mod. Yet, after being used to feed 25kw, 500 or 1000 watts wont show much difference. It is just a different experience, back to bicycle feel. You know, the plain pedal early DH bikes that I have been riding 25 years ago were about the same weight as the actual Levo, and very far from its smooth ride and handling quality.

 

[__mike]

Over the I've last decade, I've built a number of DIY e-bikes.
Several Hub drives and 2 mid-drives. All in the 2 - 5 KW range, retrofitted to DH style bikes.
They are all gone now as my Surron has been so awesome to get my e-fix on.

I'm now thinking of something a bit more accepted by the wider community. Something with pedals that doesn't look like a garage experiment, and rides more naturally.

I'm thinking about something like a Levo or similar and de-restricting it (yeah, I know warranty, blah blah. Lets skip over that bit)

I thought I'd ask a community of DIYers if any of you have gone down this route and what you think of the modern Off-The-Shelf bikes that are now on offer.
Do you have one? Do you regret buying it and sold it soon after? Do you find it a great alternative to a high powered home build?

Hi mate,

I’ve built a few hub powered bikes up in the past in 2-4.5kw configuration. I’m into my mountain biking and dirt biking and own a couple of each. I want a surron and been following them from the beginning on here and Facebook but a little on the fence atm for my needs plus concerned about size having never seen one except at a distance on a path.

Last year I bought a new 2019 Giant trance e+1 for $5250au in Australia. The levo is over priced here and you need to spend crazy money for similar spec. I fitted a badass box to derestrict the speed limit - it’s wireless and clips over the speed sensor halving the output signal. Our Distributor is in port Douglas. I can cruise high 30’s km/hr and with the rpm up can pedal 40-42kmhr on the flat w/ neutral wind limited by gearing. I removed the b’box when I took the bike in for 2 free services and nothing was said. It’s a clip on and clip off affair. There’s a hack you can do on these models for free with a magnet but youll then have some lag.

I enjoy my mountain biking and the bike is an absolute blast, inspires so much confidence / very stable / great traction and shock absorbing with the big tubeless 2.6tyres. I mainly use power setting 2-3 and could potentially get 3hrs+ ride time but I’m usually spent by then and seem to be using higher settings now. I like climbing regardless whether on an ebike but I’m now jumping obstacles on the way up! Around the suburbs the bike is fun and stays in the highest setting - stair climbs / limestone wall And steep embankment drop offs / can jump stuff you couldn’t without the assistance. My hub powered bikes were more fun around the burbs though and I’m toying with the idea of building another. The weight in the back wheel was just horrible for mountain biking and decent size jumps.

Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any other questions . I tried to upload a photo of my trance but the size is a little large

Mike

 

[electric_nz]

I love the idea of a super reliable commuter, DIY efforts usually come with some level of reliability issues. But you certainly pay top dollar for them.

As a project, I thought it could be quite good to find a used factory ebike with dead battery and fit external controller, throttle and higher voltage battery, but usually the nylon gears look quite weak and flimsy and wouldn't likely allow for decent power.

There are a lot of models with a Bafang hub drive though, presumably these could be hot rodded and still keep the standard look...?

 

[MadRhino]

Well, DIY is the way to performance and self maintenance. When you had built it yourself, you can diagnose and fix it.

For me it would be a big step back in those matters. Compromise, ebikes always been about priorities and compromises. Giving up ultra light motorcycle style for a light weight bicycle feel, is a new priority that won’t come without compromises. Relying on dealer service and guarantee, or their parts availability at least, is something to worry about when you always done everything by yourself. But, I know that I won’t be able to build a 17 kg ebike that rides as good as a Levo. I can build performance within a reasonable weight expectancy, but to achieve even a low power pedelec that is a good ride and make it 17 kg, does require financial, technical, and fabrication means that I don’t have.

 

[markz]

Buying an off the shelf ebike means you will be waiting for parts from the shop, waiting and waiting, then when they do fix it, and it breaks down again with exact same problem, then you will be waiting and waiting and waiting.

Buy a plug & play ebike kit from the likes of www.ebikes.ca or www.em3ev.com and put it on a bicycle you already have, well you will be waiting a week for a part to be shipped to you if you buy on the same continent.

The premium you pay for the Levo's of the world, is the light weight and how the bike feels. Engineering if you like electronics and wheel speed sensors with their cables catching on something and making the $Levo's of the world useless for a month. Or, talk to the men over at www.ebikes.ca and get the part the next day. Good luck getting that kind of speedy parts in hand with Levo's of the world.

 

[MadRhino]

Buying an off the shelf ebike means you will be waiting for parts from the shop, waiting and waiting, then when....

The premium you pay for the Levo's of the world, is the light weight and how the bike feels...

Specialized has the best guarantee of the industry. They lend you another bike while you are waiting, and replace everything they can't fix.

And yes of course, the cost is about weight and handling. What else could be a better reason?
I had spent that kind of money anyway, to build the light weight motorcycle performance that I’ve been riding for years.

 

[litespeed]

MadRhino,

I’m with you. Well, kinda! I have a 14.5 KW 65+mph bike and now I wanna get a off the shelf bike. I’m a bit turned off about the small battery and lack luster speed/power. I do like the idea of being able to peddle the whole time (my bike sucks To peddle over about 23 mph...cadence sucks at about 120.) and super light like a bicycle. Although I like the high dollar bikes I’m looking in the under 5K range. I like the Frey bikes (compromise of good power/battery with a little more weight/less refined than the high dollar bikes), the Giant bikes and a few others. Thinking used might be a good route minus worrying about the aforementioned lack of parts support.

I’m in my early 50’s and would tell you I look like I’m in my forties......in pretty good shape for 6’ 4” and 210 lbs......wanna keep it that way and exercise more. I feel my strength and stamina slipping away day by day.

Let us know what you end up with.

Tom

 

[markz]

Off the shelf ebike would mean 750W power levels at best.
Then there is Luna Cycle and the like, which would be off the shelf complete ebikes but higher power levels.
Then Em3ev but both need putting together, but you'd get the frame and all the parts.

So, does "Off-The-Shelf" mean ready to ride, which means going to the local bicycle store for an ebike.
Or, does it mean a getting the frame, getting the other components and doing a little putting together.

In which case, yeah the last one, for sure.

 

[MadRhino]

MadRhino,

I’m with you. Well, kinda! I have a 14.5 KW 65+mph bike and now I wanna get a off the shelf bike. I’m a bit turned off about the small battery and lack luster speed/power. I do like the idea of being able to peddle the whole time (my bike sucks To peddle over about 23 mph...cadence sucks at about 120.) and super light like a bicycle. Although I like the high dollar bikes I’m looking in the under 5K range. I like the Frey bikes (compromise of good power/battery with a little more weight/less refined than the high dollar bikes), the Giant bikes and a few others. Thinking used might be a good route minus worrying about the aforementioned lack of parts support.

I’m in my early 50’s and would tell you I look like I’m in my forties......in pretty good shape for 6’ 4” and 210 lbs......wanna keep it that way and exercise more. I feel my strength and stamina slipping away day by day.

Let us know what you end up with.

Tom

I am going to buy a Specialized turbo s-work Levo or a Santa Cruz Heckler. I would never buy one of the manufactured ebikes that I can build as good by myself.

My goal is to have better daytime access to the mountain trails, and to return to light weight bicycle handling MTB.

I will not quit riding my fast ebikes, for city commuting especially where motorcycle performance is my priority.

My powerful dirt bike is going to be my country place bike, dirt and road.