Oregon Manifest: Designing the ultimate modern utility bike

gogo said:
Slick design. I've been anticipating the fixed-to-the-frame front cargo shelf with full size front wheel. Batteries in the tubes and hidden wiring is very slick. That front tire seems undersized, though. Let's face it, you're going to slam into some road irregularities when you cant see what's in front of your contact patch.


That's why I'm modding my wife's project frame to accept the yuba bread basket.

http://yubaride.com/yubashop/product.php?id_product=70


slightly off topic, but Yuba's prices all went up recently. I bought this thing at $129.xx and now it is $138.xx
 
Faraday Porteur: Plenty of room in the triangle for a real battery. Article in electricbike.com, Chromoly frame TIG-welded, A123 cylindrical LiFePO4s inside the horizontal top-tubes of the frame, so...looks clever and slick but not much room any serious Ah...(full disclosure: I am a spell-checker for electricbike.com) http://www.electricbike.com/faraday/

rear-faraday.jpg
 
spinningmagnets said:
Faraday Porteur: Plenty of room in the triangle for a real battery. Article in electricbike.com, Chromoly frame TIG-welded, A123 cylindrical LiFePO4s inside the horizontal top-tubes of the frame, so...looks clever and slick but not much room any serious Ah...(full disclosure: I am a spell-checker for electricbike.com) http://www.electricbike.com/faraday/

rear-faraday.jpg


It's about time someone got the batteries inside the tubing.
 
How about this entry? 20" wheels, made to actually carry a bunch of stuff, motorized with a stokemonkey mid-drive system.

https://clevercycles.com/blog/2011/09/22/xtravois-2-0-our-oregon-manifest-bike/

6172855210_f4d2203940_b.jpg
 
vodid said:
How about this entry? 20" wheels, made to actually carry a bunch of stuff, motorized with a stokemonkey mid-drive system.
Beauty vodid... Just need a pic of the bike showing a nice piece of ash, a big price tag and I believe you may be golden...
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said:
"It's about time someone got the batteries inside the tubing."

I disagree. I bet 80% of the people on this forum thought about it and didn't because there's just not enough room. A 10 mile range is pathetic and yet people are buying them... Also, the chromoly tube wrapped around the batteries isn't the lightest and most efficient way of packaging a battery.
 
hate to say this but batteries in the tubes have been done before
...works great, until the batteries swell causing instant fail
 
Ah, the faraday. Pretty nice. The black bike in the earlier posts not so much.

I still believe if you want to put batteries in the tube great, but do enough to be useful, otherwise you are only creating a bike which will be extra heavy to get home when they run out of charge or a pain to deal with when they die a miserably shortened life.

I also still believe ebikes are thoroughly different creatures from regular bikes. Great possibilities unfulfilled represents either an appalling lack of imagination, poor execution, or market inertia. The faraday does a lot to help in all three of these dimensions.
 
John in CR said:
With that attitude pedalists will quickly get left behind as ebikes go mainstream. I do however question the utility of typical ebikes though. To me electric cargo type bikes are drastically more useful vehicles, whether the extra space is for cargo or passengers.


It comes down to economies of scale. A normal bike is bad at carrying cargo because it's minimalist and only meant for a rider. The moment you start extending the wheelbase, even just a little, it makes a big difference.

Think about how many car loads of stuff a semi tractor trailer can haul. Hundreds, and yet it's only about 4-5x the footprint.


So I totally agree, John. I've been trying to improve the cargo carrying of my normal ebike and it's really hard to carry anything larger than a grocery bag. (You could carry 4-5 bags, with dual panniers front and back, and a big front basket like I have now.) But large items are a serious challenge. I had to tie this 24"x24" air filter to my backpack today. It weighs a couple ounces and is an inch thick, but no where to secure it safely.
 
Where's the love? That is a flat-out beautiful bicycle. It's an elegant design, well executed. Looks like a blast to ride. Way nicer than the commercial ebikes on offer (excluding Croborg and Stealth) and more capable than a lot of them.

Look, I get that it's not what most of us on this forum go for, me included. But I'm still surprised at the hostile reaction. Sounds a lot like jealousy to me. Face it, if this guy ever decided to make a burly, high capacity cargo bike it would blow doors off most of the bikes on this forum. Instead he decided to make a super slick hipster bike with space for a bag of groceries and range for a couple turns around the block. And he did a hell of a nice job.
 
meh...
I triked my new 100lb shed-in-a-box (that was coming apart at the seams) back to da ranch with little effort.
The hardest part was moving the box over to the trike.
No need to balance the box 'just so'
Cargo trikes forever! :lol:
 
Is it me or does this white bike have a really high stand-over? That can't be a good thing.

Looks fancy and nice, and surely extremely expensive. One of the main benefits of ebikes is economics. When you start out with a $3,000+ price tag, that sort of kills the money saving aspect for a lot of people.

Can a manufacturer build a quality longtail cargo bike and sell it for under 2k? I've seen the Yuba Mundo, and it's got bottom of the barrel components, you can see they cut a lot of corners to save $50 off the production on a $2800 msrp bike.

Now for some compliments on the Faraday- integrated automatic lighting, clean look, likely lightweight enough that it pedals nearly as good as a normal bike so range isn't as big of an issue. You probably CAN get a legit 10wh/mile for 12 miles range. Decent front cargo rack.
 
Suspect said:
A 10 mile range is pathetic and yet people are buying them... Also, the chromoly tube wrapped around the batteries isn't the lightest and most efficient way of packaging a battery.
But if the tubing is already there, then not adding some other packaging for the battery is saving weight and space on the bike. ;)

10 miles would be plenty for many of the things that I need a bike to do, and the same is probably true for most people that would want a bike like that. All of my major grocery-getting and work-commuting is within 8 miles of here, worst-case including some headwinds. My main problem would be that I couldn't carry all the things I need to on a bike like that, and that I can't really pedal on many days, but I'm not the usual target for such a bike. ;)


My primary issues with the bike itself are that it's price is quite high which will keep it out of the hands of many people, but mostly that it's lighting is extremely insufficient. At least it has some, but it needs to be much more obvious and have a much larger surface area plus brightness. Bicycle-type lighting is simply not enough to stay safe in most places.
 
Wired magazine just did an interesting article on that Faraday bike:

http://www.wired.com/reviews/2012/08/faraday-porteur/

The founding editor of wired magazine recently was trying to decide on which commercial electric bike to buy for a summer road trip. His choice after extensive research and test rides? A 100 watt gruber assist bike with the motor in the seat tube and a 200 watt hour battery. I think it cost over 3.500 shipped from Germany.

Here is his story off his website about choosing an electric bike:

http://kk.org/cooltools/archives/6239

Anyway his plight and his final decision were kind of an eye opener to me that many people in the public are not looking for just pure performance per dollar.
 
Green Machine said:
Wired magazine just did an interesting article on that Faraday bike:

http://www.wired.com/reviews/2012/08/faraday-porteur/

The founding editor of wired magazine recently was trying to decide on which commercial electric bike to buy for a summer road trip. His choice after extensive research and test rides? A 100 watt gruber assist bike with the motor in the seat tube and a 200 watt hour battery. I think it cost over 3.500 shipped from Germany.

Here is his story off his website about choosing an electric bike:

http://kk.org/cooltools/archives/6239

Anyway his plight and his final decision were kind of an eye opener to me that many people in the public are not looking for just pure performance per dollar.

He's well into the trip now, cycling down the Pacific Coast and blogging it on Google+ .

From three days ago:


Battery technology does not increase at Moore's Law speed. If it did, we'd have pennies with the power of cars. But it IS increasing at a steady rate, and we now have small hand-size batteries that can get you up a hill. This photo shows my e-bike battery and charger. I did not get to weigh either before I left, but I estimate the battery to be about 3 pounds (or 1+ kilos)., and the charger at 2 pounds. The battery is Lithium-ion and takes about 3 hours to recharge. The lights on the side indicate capacity, here shown as 100%. Fully charged the battery will give me enough assistance for one day. The caveat is that I am only using the electric assist on steep uphills. But there are plenty of these along the Oregon coast. Some of the long hills require that I run the motor for 20 minutes or longer since I am pedaling in low gear and going up slowly. (The motor turns the crankshaft at a steady "normal" rotation.) This is an electric assist bike which means it is assisting me as I pedal (and believe me I am still working hard). On days with a lot of hills, I will recharge the battery at lunch in a restuarant. I carry a smaller spare charged battery but have not used it yet.

While the battery is charging next to me while I recharge my own bodily battery with food, I have been struck by how powerful this technology is. Little electrons are pushed into the small cylinders, and with that stored energy, it is able to move all of me and my gear uphill for several hours! But so will a plate of pancakes!

I am using this cool e-bike from Gruber in Austria called the Vivax because while pancakes will get me up the hill, my old legs don't go fast enough to keep up with my 15-year-old son and 16-year-old nephew. The battery is my fountain of youth, giving me back the legs I had when I rode my bicycle along the same route 35 years ago on pancakes alone.

P1200344.JPG
 
That's fine if you want to just ease the burden of the steep hills. Nothing much wrong with that. On the spectrum of assistance levels, it's just too close to 'nothing' to be appealing to me or most of us on this forum. But you really miss out on the beauty of electric power at that level. Give me my 1300watt hub motor and it's puts a smile on my face all the time. That's real transportation, not "easing the steep hills".
 
Beachcruzer said:
Where's the love? That is a flat-out beautiful bicycle. It's an elegant design, well executed. Looks like a blast to ride. Way nicer than the commercial ebikes on offer (excluding Croborg and Stealth) and more capable than a lot of them.

Look, I get that it's not what most of us on this forum go for, me included. But I'm still surprised at the hostile reaction. Sounds a lot like jealousy to me. Face it, if this guy ever decided to make a burly, high capacity cargo bike it would blow doors off most of the bikes on this forum. Instead he decided to make a super slick hipster bike with space for a bag of groceries and range for a couple turns around the block. And he did a hell of a nice job.

I'm definitely jealous! I wish I'd been able to launch a kickstarter project for a version of my latest bike with the kind of success they've managed. ...maybe next spring.
 
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