Ping 48V15Ah WTF

[garyhgaryh]

Gary,

I just recently switched my entire bike over to Anderson connectors. I recommend ordering from:
http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpoles/housings-contacts/
I ordered a total of 30 cases and contacts and the total was $25 including shipping.

Those are excellent prices on the connectors. With shipping, I was able to get them for about $3/ea with the prongs.
You can get some good deals on ebay.

I also ordered a 16T southpaw freewheel so I can get some much needed speed. Look fwd to that shipment.
Gary

 

[garyhgaryh]

I think a good cell would hold the surface charge longer, but really, they are all good enough. Your battery is new right Gary? It won't be acting "normal" till you get a few cycles on it. It sounds like you have a good pack, sometimes a ping pack will take several charges to get all the led's lit. It's ok. All your led's eventually lit, and they will all light sooner in the future unless you are pulling too much amps. The pack will balance lots faster when it's broken in a bit.

The pack is not balancing when you unplug the charger. But it is losing the surface charge, that will dissapear within less than a second when you twist the throttle. Pings bms is set up to start balancing when the cells get overcharged. How can that start balancing some more when they start to be less charged? If you use an sla charger that doesn't reach 60v, you'll never see the bms doing anything to balance the pack.

My battery pack is used off ebay. Got it from someone who bought it end of last year.

So what is the bms doing after you disconnect the charger? Is it not balancing? If not, what would that process be called? Dancing?
Gary

 

[dogman dan]

Ahh, so it's not breaking in then. The ping bms charges my 48v battery to 60.5v, so about 3.78v per cell. This is higher than some other manufacturers recomend. Some say 3.65v is fully charged. 56v, where my ping is for 90% of a ride is only 3.5v per cell. So when the ping bms is balancing, it's during that part of the charge that is overcharged, and the bms bleeds off some power from the highest cells letting the rest catch up.

At the end, the battery is balanced, but slightly overcharged. This overcharge is the surface charge. The instant you draw any power from the battery, it dissapears, and the battery goes to the real fully charged voltage. This will be between 3.5v and 3.7 volts depending on the condition of the cells. If you don't draw any power the surface charge dissipates by itself, and the lights wink out as they fall below the voltage threshold for them to be lit.

I'm not positive of this, but I believe that the lights are merely an indicator of full voltage. In effect, a high voltage light set to 3.75 or something like that. I don't think they actually indicate the balancer fets are open or closed. But while the charger is on, you may see the effect of the fets. A led may light up, and then go off when the bms starts draining that cell a bit.

It is a bit odd that the last light to light up, is the last one to go out. I'd expect a weak cell group that gets discharged more than the others and takes longer to charge would lose it's surface charge faster. No telling what it is, maybe the fet for that cell group starts discharging the cell at lower voltage, and then causes that cell group to charge a bit slow. Or maybe it just has a voltage light that doesn't turn on till a higher voltage. Like maybe the others light up at 3.7v and that one doesn't light till 3.75v. I wouldn't sweat it too much, unless it takes hours longer for it to finally light on that cell group.

But once you unplug the charger, the bms is not doing any balancing. Pings bms balancer does nothing unless it senses an overcharge, so how's that going to be happening as the surface charge dissipates and voltage goes down.

 

[garyhgaryh]

It is a bit odd that the last light to light up, is the last one to go out. I'd expect a weak cell group that gets discharged more than the others and takes longer to charge would lose it's surface charge faster. No telling what it is, maybe the fet for that cell group starts discharging the cell at lower voltage, and then causes that cell group to charge a bit slow. Or maybe it just has a voltage light that doesn't turn on till a higher voltage. Like maybe the others light up at 3.7v and that one doesn't light till 3.75v. I wouldn't sweat it too much, unless it takes hours longer for it to finally light on that cell group.

Yes it is a bit odd. I got home a few hrs ago and noticed the same cell is still blinking. It's been almost 24 hrs now and that's the only led blinking right now.

I'm not going to worry about it, but it does make me wonder what's going on with that cell.

 

[garyhgaryh]

Gary, jus to answer earlier question. The wire protectors were on the battery when recieved. The only things done were to move the BMS to what I consider the top of the battery, add Andersons, and duct tape wires into a configuration suitable for my needs. I am quite impressed with the quality of everything. I have also ordered the hard case from REI and should be here in a few days. They did not have one at the store about a mile from me so they ordered one and it is shipped free to the store on priority shipping. All I have to do is go over and pick it up when it arrives. Cool stuff. I like it when you can save on shipping.

I did the same - ordered the case via REI online and had them deliver to my local store. My local store also did not have any onhand. I found that amazon had a similiar (probably manufactured by same company) case for $30.15:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GTRJCM/ref=s9_simh_gw_p200_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0KVQFPSMDYE79RVPJ336&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

I almost bought that one and cancelled the REI one until I found out the REI one has a soft lining and comes with a net.

Gary

 

[999zip999]

I also like Dogman's use of the plastic lid, I was told the biggest problem with pouch cells is dropping then, they don't bounce. Hey Garyhgaryh I don't remenber hearing you checking the cell voltage at those 16 wires going into the bms at 3.6v or above ?

 

[dnmun]

pages 875 and 879 in the newark catalog have the powerpole connectors and a knockoff called multicomp.

for the multicomp, the plastic housing is 37 cents, and the contact is 11 cents, you can also get contacts with extra long legs sticking out the back so you can solder to it outside the plastic housing. 14 cents.

they also have the large connectors in the knockoff brand too. up to 6 gauge.

 

[garyhgaryh]

I also like Dogman's use of the plastic lid, I was told the biggest problem with pouch cells is dropping then, they don't bounce. Hey Garyhgaryh I don't remenber hearing you checking the cell voltage at those 16 wires going into the bms at 3.6v or above ?

All my leds are off now, after over 24 hrs. I measured the voltage tonight - 48 hrs after charging and it shows 28.6 volts on a 24volt pack.
For kicks, i went downstairs to measure both my sla packs that have been fully charged just over a week ago and they measure 26.0 volts for a 24 volt pack.
I haven't measured the voltages. Any easy way of doing it? Let me look at that right now.
Gary

 

[garyhgaryh]

pages 875 and 879 in the newark catalog have the powerpole connectors and a knockoff called multicomp.

for the multicomp, the plastic housing is 37 cents, and the contact is 11 cents, you can also get contacts with extra long legs sticking out the back so you can solder to it outside the plastic housing. 14 cents.

they also have the large connectors in the knockoff brand too. up to 6 gauge.

If I had not ordered, I would have gone this route. Those are damn good prices.
Well, since anderson connectors are proven, I'm happy I paid $3/connector w/ pins rather than $9 w/pins at Graingers. There is no way I'm gonna pay $20 to get two wires to connect. That's just silly or I'm just cheap .

Anyways, I'm sure I would have been happy with those knockoffs.
Gary

 

[dogman dan]

Many of us get our connectors here, at powerwerks. http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpoles/powerpole-sets/45-amp-red-black-anderson-powerpole-sets.html

$1.50 a set. But once you have the housings, you can get lots of replacement contacts for pretty cheap.

 

[dnmun]

it seems like the newark knockoffs of the andersons is half price of the andersons. but i liked the idea of using the connector made for mounting on the pcb with the long leg sticking out the back since you can just wrap the wire around the leg and solder and no need for the crimper and the insertion of fat wire into the back of the housing. 14 cents is cheap.

shipping may be cheap too if they mail it in a jetpack and not a big box.

 

[garyhgaryh]

Many of us get our connectors here, at powerwerks. http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-powerpoles/powerpole-sets/45-amp-red-black-anderson-powerpole-sets.html

$1.50 a set. But once you have the housings, you can get lots of replacement contacts for pretty cheap.

I'm looking what consist of a "set". What is the "roll pin" for?
Thanks,
Gary

 

[dogman dan]

A set is one red and one black housing, roll pin, and two contacts. The roll pin keeps the sets from pulling apart when attached to each other, for a more permanent plug. It goes in the little round hole you see when you pair up two housings and prevents the housings from seperating again till you remove the pin. You can also get housings one by one, in all kinds of colors on other pages. I buy tons of em in red and black, and have a half dozen or so of blue green and yellow for phase wires.

Once you have em around the house they start getting on everything, bikes, mowers, the weedeater.

 

[999zip999]

Garyhgaryh, I thought you had a 48v batt. Then you check the 8 wires going into the bms for balance between the cells. This will help determin the state of chargh. But when you put a load on it , then it will show it true colors. I use 4mm. gold plated bullets connections for my battery. I found the andersons little lite wieght for my 48v and a to many amp. controller . Also I got C.A. to turn down my controller yesterday and not having andersons have cause me a differance problem since they are the standard for most after market e-bike projects. ( but that's a new story ). If I had turn down my controller I might have never had a problem with the andersons.But still looking for the best connecters.

 

[Cold-E-Commuter]

And oops again.

 

[Cold-E-Commuter]

Oops

 

[Cold-E-Commuter]

As far as the Andersons are concerned, see my post in Manufacturers/Dealers to Gravitate Towards. I have found that soldering the contact to the wire prior to placing it in the housing works great. As far as the "Dancing" of the lights on the Ping BMS, I also get that. Usually takes about 45 minutes after the battery is removed from the charger for this rather interesting light show to begin. As far as balancing, I charged the new Ping yesterday after it's initial ride of 9.61 miles. (Don't tell my Orthopedic Surgeon) I just so happened to walk by and stop to look as the LED's started to light up. All 16 LED's came on within a matter of seconds, like 6 seconds. I was amazed. I have been doing break in runs at home with the front tire suspended, so maybe that helped. The battery is on the charger as I am posting this after a 21.64 mile ride that drained 6.34Ah. We shall see if the LED's are as quick to respond this time. The cool thing about this is that the 21 mile ride would have killed the SLA 48V pack that weighed 35 lbs. I estimate this to only be 43% DOD with the Ping pack that only weighs 16 lbs. I do not forsee using either of the SLA packs ever again.

 

[dogman dan]

Sounds like you got a really nice battery there. It balances up with no action from the bms at all if it happens that fast. That's typical, btw, once you get it broken in, and haven't run it down to 100% dod. My ping bms's only do anything to balance the pack if I run till it cuts out. The rest of the time mine have tended to stay balanced for months at a time.

Hang onto the sla's, they come in handy as a power supply when you first get into lipo.

Andersons do come in bigger sizes, but many who run big amps are using the gold bullets the HK packs come with. My turnigy 30c ones come with huge 5 mm bullets and 8 guage wire. I've deliberately kept even my racing bike down to amps that 12 guage and 45 amp andersons can handle. Just me being cheap really. For sure 45 amp andersons are adequate for a ping.

 

[Cold-E-Commuter]

So here is what I get when I try to delete the 2 extra posts, then go to the FAQ to find out how.

How do I edit or delete a post?
Unless you are a board administrator or moderator, you can only edit or delete your own posts. You can edit a post by clicking the edit button for the relevant post, sometimes for only a limited time after the post was made. If someone has already replied to the post, you will find a small piece of text output below the post when you return to the topic which lists the number of times you edited it along with the date and time. This will only appear if someone has made a reply; it will not appear if a moderator or administrator edited the post, though they may leave a note as to why they’ve edited the post at their own discretion. Please note that normal users cannot delete a post once someone has replied.

If an admin person can delete the oops's, please do.
Thanks

 

[Cold-E-Commuter]

Dogman, I have been thinking about what you said about keeping the SLA's as a power source for LiPo's and have a question. Could a person wire an SLA pack to a connector in series for the the appropriate SLA charger to plug in and then also in parallel to another connector to be used as a 12V source. Would that not allow a person to have the charger hooked up to the pack charging it while using it as a power source? In effect running the LiPo charger from the SLA charger with the batteries as the convertor? Or would wiring a pack in both parallel and series be a bad thing? I suppose that using a resistor or 2 might allow it, maybe?

 

[wineboyrider]

Dogman, I have been thinking about what you said about keeping the SLA's as a power source for LiPo's and have a question. Could a person wire an SLA pack to a connector in series for the the appropriate SLA charger to plug in and then also in parallel to another connector to be used as a 12V source. Would that not allow a person to have the charger hooked up to the pack charging it while using it as a power source? In effect running the LiPo charger from the SLA charger with the batteries as the convertor? Or would wiring a pack in both parallel and series be a bad thing? I suppose that using a resistor or 2 might allow it, maybe?

I do it all the time in my garage. :wink:

 

[dogman dan]

I use an old 12v 6 amp dumb charger to keep my sla battery charging, while using it to power two lipo chargers at once. To use the sla bike pack, you'd have to connect em paralell, into a 12v 36 ah battery, and then use it to power the lipo charger.

I couldn't just run the lipo charger off the 12v charger, too spiky a supply I guess. So the sla is a buffer between the power and the lipo charger. You may find other handy uses for the old sla's too. Run some emergency lights or whatever for power outages. Christmas lights on the car using an inverter, that sort of thing.

Eventually I bought a large deep cycle lead battery for my lipo charger power supply because I want to be able to charge some lipo even if a plug is not avaliable, like at the races, or up in the mountains. With an inverter, I could charge a ping too.

 

[Cold-E-Commuter]

I now have 6 rides on the Ping for 47 miles. Still impressed at the size and weight savings over SLA's. I will continue to post, but I think it is time to move this over to the "Review" section of the forum. Hope to see you there. Thanks for all of the advise and input.

 

[garyhgaryh]

Quick question: What gauge is the wire largest black and red wiring coming from the battery? I need to buy some wires and want to match up the gauge of the wire.
Any cheap place to buy wires? I think walmart has a roll of heavy gauge wires for about $5 spool in their auto section. So it'll be about $10 for a red and a black spool.
If you can find a better price elsewhere in a common store let me know - has to be multi-strand copper wires, not solid copper wires.

 

[dogman dan]

That's what I've been using, cheap automotive wire. 12 guage is big enough for anything a ping ought to be doing. 10 guage is the biggest you can get to fit the housing of a 45 amp anderson over.