Please recommend me parts

[engblom]

The bike I want to rebuild is this one: Retrò Woman Aluminium Blue

I wish to fit to it a 1000W rear-wheel direct drive motor. I have been searching on Aliexpress for parts and kits but I need help as I can't find what I want. All kits I have found so far would not like rain because the controller is not watertight. As I am not able to protect the bike against rain all parts need to be watertight. What parts would you use for this project?

Feel free to recommend whatever that is affordable to ship to Europe.

 

[Tomorrowwedietodayweride]

Honestly, I would abstain from that "project" that isn't. "all parts need to be watertight." that alone is not going to work out. And then, direct drive, and then so many more concerns. Save your money for another project?

 

[999zip999]

I got a cheap kit shipped by Sali 72v 3,000kit for 345.00usd
It's a little funky and haven't opened the controller.
Like I said it's a super cheap kit that has everything but the tire in tube. Display, brakes, thumb throttle disc brake rim only and freewheel the kicker .
It says waterproof controller I live in Southern California even though we're having record rain this year I don't go out in it and even though we're going to get one to three inches of rain and snow in our local mountains and thunderstorms possible ocean spouts. As it's still going to be winter here over the weekend. All I can say is the 3000 motor isn't a 3000 mxus.

Loading…

www.sailimotor.com

 

[999zip999]

If you want high quality buy from ebikesca.ca and look for waterproof controller. As they are from Canada or BC and very wet . Plus a ton of information and they back up their product.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

1000W rear-wheel direct drive motor

Grin (ebikes.ca) rear-axle kit

As waterproof as you're going to find, reliable, well-engineered, powerful enough for anything aside from a full cargo bike (which might benefit from a geared motor, but a single person won't need that). You can get a kit with a more-conventional type of display (losing detailed information, though).

Consider buying the battery locally if you find a good quality source - then compare price. Good quality means name-brand cells such as Panasonic, Samsung, Sony, LG. If you can't find those cells don't buy the battery - the cell manufacturer is the most important factor.

Grin isn't luxury - it's reliability and good engineering from enthusiasts. Any price difference is offset by not worrying - their stuff works well and keeps working. How long do you want the bike to be ridable?

The latest v3 rear motor has a built in torque sensor and cadence sensor. You can set up regeneration and almost eliminate wear on the brake pads as well - my All-Axle will bring my bike to a complete stop (a little slower than the mechanical brakes but I still have those for panics).

 

[fill]

What are your expectations, top speed, range, etc, and what sort of terrain will you be negotiating?

I ride a similar cycle (see profile pic) fitted with a 250w geared hub that exerts upto 40Nm at the point the tyre meets the rd.

Im limited to 15.5mph by local regs, but unrestricted similar motors top out at 19-22mph, but with the regulated limit of 15,5mph set i have already worn out one set of brake blocks in less than 5 months. And the V brakes can just about stop the bike with 100kg of me and 'cargo' within a reasonable distance from 15mph.. which incidentally is the top comfortable pedaling at full pelt speed of the bike anyway (36t chainring 12t top gear)..

while probably slower than my bike uphill a 1000w dinner plate motor could hit 25mph+ on the flat which would be pushing the limits of the brakes on a bike like yours and mine. which is a pretty crucial safety aspect if your considering cycling on the rd with other traffic.

 

[neptronix]

Direct drive is the least waterproof motor out there, sorry to tell ya.

I don't think 1000W would be a lot of fun on a suspension-less bike. A motor with that power can go about 51kph and without suspension the bumps will hit hard enough to send those wheels in slightly different directions when they land.. ( very dangerous )

..suspension prevents this from happening and keeps the wheels on the ground as you hit bumps and curbs etc.

You should consider a geared motor as they're more resilient, a lot lighter, and more for 40kph and below kinds of power... which is about as fast as i can recommend going on a bike with no suspension.

 

[999zip999]

You got to make sure that if you have rim brakes you make sure you get a rim that's compatible for v brakes and the best ones that I found are Kool stop.
And there are models that have cassettes or free will two different type of gears.
Plus make a cardboard box the size of the controller make a cardboard box the size of the battery that you wish and see where and how they might fit before you buy.
Get a good battery because that is the heart of an electric bike

 

[offGridDownUnder]

while probably slower than my bike uphill a 1000w dinner plate motor could hit 25mph+ on the flat which would be pushing the limits of the brakes on a bike like yours and mine. which is a pretty crucial safety aspect if your considering cycling on the rd with other traffic.

I replied in light of OP's criteria, but I agree with your mention of context, including legal context. Spending money on a motor that is illegal or unusable in your jurisdiction is a waste.

The usability issues are separate, but Grin now certifies their motor as 250W compliant, and support this pointing out that at 100rpm (going up a hill, for instance) their motor will overheat eventually if provided more than 250W. I haven't read the legal statement of motors in the various jurisdictions, but I think this satisfies the requirements of European and Australian law.

ANY 250W specified motor will in normal use greatly exceed that power use for short periods, and that is normal, and not contrary to any laws I know of - the maximum powered speed is a separate legal requirement, and may be met by the motor controller generally.

Apart from the choice of motor, Grin remains a very good source - they sell both. I will be switching my trike to an All-Axle (I ran these on two prior bikes) but it currently has a Shengyi SX2 and started with a GMAC. The Shengyi is quiet.

Here is a simulation of an All-Axle on a bike I'm guessing is most like yours. Of course, change any parameters you want to better match your case. On flat, it tops out at ~30km/hr, as does the Shengyi SX2, and you can tell your controller to stop providing power above 25km/hr. You can also select different motors to compare - but ensure the matching controller is used. The Shengyi requires the baserunner Z9:

All-Axle vs Shengyi SX2

There is a 12% hill near me (measured) I use as a baseline. On the simulation page above, in the lower left, you can switch the 'Black curve' entry to 'Load Line' to see the performance on that slope. The Shengyi won't do it unless a person pedals, and the All-Axle will (I simulate for worst-case because that happens some times - my body is aging, as most do). In any case, the All-Axle shows notably greater torque.

Set up your own comparisons.

The regenerative braking from the All-Axle will bring your bike to a stop. I can say that the Shengyi SX2 will not on steep hills - I have it now, and it's not adequate. On my previous Cruzbike, the motor was in the rear, and it would stop the bike downhilll by itself - just not as fast as grabbing full mechanical brakes would.

 

[999zip999]

Europe is a big place where you at different countries have different laws. I live in Southern California but in the area that they don't enforce things like they would at Newport Beach or Venice.

 

[99t4]

All kits I have found so far would not like rain because the controller is not watertight. As I am not able to protect the bike against rain all parts need to be watertight.

I too live and ride often in a high precipitation environment. Instead of insisting on watertight electronic components (I have not found one yet!), may I suggest you turn your focus to making them water resistant as best you can.

You may be able to "umbrella" a small controller under a large seat, or otherwise under a piece of U-shaped channel upside-down. Pay attention to routing wiring inlet and outlet wiring with suitable drip loops. Some stray moisture may splash but the innards should stay relatively dry. Help any moisture trapped in the case to exit by drilling some small drain holes at the lowest part of the controller when mounted. I have successfully tented the display and throttle in appropriately sized ziplock bags for protection when subjected to extended periods of heavy deluge.

 

[DaLanMan]

I love scuba diving.. and photography, The look on my friends faces when I blithely popped my pride and joy camera into a plastic box with flexible grip segments was priceless. Then I went for a good long dive in Monte Rey with it...

Great images, took a bit to get the light to work for me, but I did.

When recently facing the issues with the heavy rain and the partially assembled bike on the rack in the garage, my answer was to modify a small pelican box with now is bolted around the screen. it is a couple of pop clip fasteners to get into it, but for the most part I don't want it being finger fiddled while the bike is being ridden.

It won't make it as a scuba assistant for biking, but last I looked your average e-bike was about frigging useless underwater.

Water resistance is available at various levels, just worry about the stuff you are driving into , and the stuff dropping on your head and work out a way to keep that from devastating you. There is nothing you can do about immersion, and frankly if you fully immerse your handlebars, I don't think think the sanctity of your monitor should be paramount in your thinking.

 

[Az.]

1000W motor on a bike like this is a total overkill and is illegal in Europe. If I were you I would buy locally or at least tried to find something local first.

 

[engblom]

Thank you all for your answers. I am going to clarify a few things you have commented on.

First about the watertightness: I have no other place to store the bike than on a porch and it would be completely drenched each time it is raining and windy at the same time. And during the winter the bike would often be covered in snow.

About why direct drive: I want a direct drive hub because I do want as little maintenance as possible, I do not want any gears to wear out. Even if the gears would be cheap, it would be a job I would hate to do.

About use case: The bike would only drive on country roads. I would use it as a "moped" going to work and then to get my exercise by pedaling home. I do not want to reek sweat at work. There are some steeper hills on the way so I imagine at least 1000W is needed as direct drive got less torque than a geared hub. I understand the implications of having something powerful on a bike without suspension and I am mature enough to adjust speed according to that (like I do not drive a car at maximum speed either). I just want to make sure there is enough power for the hills. On the hottest days I might use it as "moped" both ways. The round trip is 20km.

 

[Az.]

Why won't you buy a bike cover bag or build/buy some small cover? Leaving bike in the rain is not a good practice.

Just to let you know in Europe there is no legal limit on power delivered by controller. There is a legal limit on continuous rated power. So in practice you are planning to get yourself illegal moped and risk prosecution for no good reason. In short you can get legal motor and have plenty of power to arrive at work nice and fresh.

 

[engblom]

Why won't you buy a bike cover bag or build/buy some small cover? Leaving bike in the rain is not a good practice.

Just to let you know in Europe there is no legal limit on power delivered by controller. There is a legal limit on continuous rated power. So in practice you are planning to get yourself illegal moped and risk prosecution for no good reason. In short you can get legal motor and have plenty of power to arrive at work nice and fresh.

Do you have a good suggestion for a legal motor that does not require maintenance? The whole reason I want direct drive is to avoid maintenance and I doubt there is a legal direct drive hub motor powerful enough to not burn from taking me uphills.

 

[fill]

?? what maintenance?? - Ive only been around ebikes for a year or so, and in here much shorter, but afaik hub motors kinda just work with the odd hall sensor blow out or ratchet pawl getting stuck if left in the back of a shed for 8months+, beyond that and initially sealing any disk brake screws with loctite against water ingress, im not aware of an required motor maintenance??


As for providing any 250w geared hub with more power you can provide more amps or more volts or both.

'overvolting' running a 36v motor with 48v battery/controller will result in about 30% more power/speed (on paper) but is the expensive option out of the gate as it also will probably require a replacement controller/display in addition to the battery.

Most eu legal ebike kits come with controllers that peak output at circa 14-15a, a 3rd party controller display combo capable of supplying upto 17a or 22a will allow you to apply more amps. Ketung KT brand controllers are popular aftermarket upgrades as they have a wide range of compatible displays and are fully configurable, they also come in dual voltage variants providing the capacity to overvolt with a 48v battery too but 48v batteries are significantly more expensive than a new controller.

Btw the amp cap in the kt controller is a configurable setting so you can buy a 22a controller and set a 16a limit, test ride and increase it further if you need additional power to climb hills etc.. Just be mindful you dont demand more amps than the battery bms can supply.

In my own case i bought my kit and a controller upgrade only to discover the regulated supplied controller was more than sufficient for my bike as 15mph on most streets is lethal resulting in me and the bike bouncing all over the place.. I literally lost the shopping turning off the uphill cycle track at speed onto the road day 1 of ebiking as pre conversion i had never climbed the cycletrack hill at speed before.. Thankfully the tins bounced onto the road while only cereal boxes and loo roll landed on the parked cars..





@offGridDownUnder - cheers for the clarification, my rather glib comment was made after limited experience with one 1000w DD 48v 30a single speed bike with a no-name motor which while speedy on the flat was a poor hill climber failing where my 250w bike rolls up with comfortable pedal input.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

a legal motor that does not require maintenance

A properly designed and built motor will not require any maintenance - and there are many such motors for sale.

A motor that is badly treated, just like a bicycle that is badly treated, will be damaged and require repair or replacement.

Maintenance isn't really a part of any electric bicycle motors - failure may happen, but not maintenance.

Over a long time, a well made motor may wear it's bearings or gears out. If quality control is poor at the factory, or if the user abuses the motor, a motor may fail. These are unusual circumstances, uncommon, and may be avoided. This is not maintenance.

Choose a motor with a good record of reliability, from a manufacturer with a good record of quality control. Next, don't mount it so the cable is pointing up to avoid water being conducted into the motor, don't specify a motor that is too weak or outside it's specifications, don't leave openings for water to enter (disk rotor bolts for instance). Don't overdrive it, or overheat it (choose the motor for the application).

'Legal'. Choose a jurisdiction. Find out what 'legal' means in that jurisdiction, including how this is interpreted. Who checks, how do they check, get some examples of failures under these rules. This is not an attempt to sneak around the requirements - motors don't always fit neatly into someone's idea and there will be interpretation. Justin of Grin has rants on his pages about 'motor ratings' and he is correct. The same motor with the same voltage and amps will produce twice the power at twice the rpm. Power is torque multiplied by speed - there is no 'one number'.

Power is not a quantity - it is a rate. Energy delivered per unit of time.

So what is the requirement where you will use the bicycle, and how is it actually interpreted? If you put a meter on any EU legal 250W motor and use it up a hill, you will see readings approaching 1000W - but it will melt if you do this hour after hour. It won't melt if you feed it 250W hour after hour. As I mentioned above, Grin's All-Axle will over heat if given more than 250W at 100rpm, and can thus be classified as a 250W motor.

So, put in the effort of finding out what actual requirements you must meet - throwing together a number of off-hand comments from people who also don't know your situation won't get you a real answer.

But maintenance isn't a part of a bicycle electric motor. Quality is, but there's no ongoing maintenance. Save that for your brakes and chain and tires.

 

[Az.]

Power is torque multiplied by speed - there is no 'one number'.

Power is not a quantity - it is a rate. Energy delivered per unit of time.

I nominate you to Quote of the Month contest.

Newbies like me are usually confused when it comes to motor power. I feel like I finally understand it.


...I hope I can find right thread.

 

[amberwolf]

There is this one

E.S. Quotable Quotes !

This place is getting popular enough, alot of comedians on here.. ( gotta have a sense of humor to ride an electric bike .. just comes natual for some !) This thread is dedicated to the Notable Quotes that come and go on our daily discussions.... Lowell "Nothing wrong with a little duct...

endless-sphere.com

Regarding motor power, you might check out the ebikes.ca motor simulator. If you read it's full instructions, then experiment with the various pre-created parts, you can learn what various changes in things do, or don't do, under various conditions. Once you learn how the graph works / what it is showing you, it's easier to understand than most explanations.

 

[Az.]

There is this one

Yes! That is the thread I was looking for. Thanks.

I have seen Grin motor simulator. Very interesting, but choice of motors is limited.

Also they offer interesting perspective on motor power rating:

Futility of Motor Power Ratings

"There's no such thing as a rated watt!" Read here for why we don't advertise a simple power rating for the motors we sell. Also, have a look at our Youtube video where Justin talks about the power to propel bicycles in <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALde6zhLPs0">"School of Watts"</a>.

ebikes.ca

There is a lot of confusion especially amongst those who want to buy first e-bike. Unfortunately Grin has tendency to overcomplicate things..

 

[nicobie]

I think you would be fine with a hub motor in the rain. The heat it produces will boil the water out. The biggest issue you will have is rust and that won't stop it from running. It's worked for me for years. Keeping the controller dry is different.