Programming the Bafang Middrive BBS01+BBS02

[Rusty123]

Watching this thread with great interest, as I would like to reprogram some of my parameters also. As you all experiment with the different settings, it would be great to come up with values that enhance range, as well as power. For example, I'd like for my drive to use low PAS settings to prioritize long range, and high PAS setting to prioritize power, with throttle overriding everything. As it stands now, the low RPM cutout at low settings makes them ill suited for much of anything, and the high settings seem clustered together such that there doesn't seem to be much difference between them.

As Kepler mentions in a previous post, it may well be that the RPM cutout is not useful at all. Though I suppose the right combination with current might create a setting that assists with acceleration, or getting underway, but not at sustained speed, which could be useful.

 

[Rusty123]

Do any of these settings override or reduce the infamous "throttle deadband"?

Edit: I see Kepler addressed this a couple posts back.

 

[Rusty123]

In regards to have 100% hand throttle without effecting PAS seems to outside of the parameters we have available to us with this software. Perhaps it can be done but I can't see how it can be done at this stage.

On the Throttle tab set the Designated Assist to 9 and the Speed Limited to By Display's Command, this will give 100% assist (level 9) no matter what the display is set to and cut off at 50kph (max for the display unit)

I think what Kepler is saying here is that there is no setting to prevent the throttle from killing the PAS and then ramping back up, which results in that annoying dead spot that occurs when the throttle is activated.

 

[ErikDK]

My son has had several "interesting episodes" when he has run out in the soft sand on the side of the path and the motor keeps pulling for a while after he's stopped pedaling.

Are there any adverse effects of turning "stop delay" all the way down?

 

[Somebodystopme!!]

My son has had several "interesting episodes" when he has run out in the soft sand on the side of the path and the motor keeps pulling for a while after he's stopped pedaling.

Are there any adverse effects of turning "stop delay" all the way down?

Only one way to find out.... :wink:

 

[Rusty123]

My son has had several "interesting episodes" when he has run out in the soft sand on the side of the path and the motor keeps pulling for a while after he's stopped pedaling.

Are there any adverse effects of turning "stop delay" all the way down?

If you're using cutout brakes, this shouldn't be an issue - brake activation instantly cuts the assist.

 

[Kepler]

Do any of these settings override or reduce the infamous "throttle deadband"?

Edit: I see Kepler addressed this a couple posts back.

Hi Rusty. I dont think I have really addressed the throttle deadband with the settings suggested so far Most of it has been about getting the PAS how I would like it to be. Personally I am quite happy with the deadband at the start and use this to kill throttle when shifting (refer to throttle hack discussion on the main thread)

I think the throttle can be tuned up though with this software. First thing I would try is set the throttle from Speed to current. Widening out the throttle voltage range might help also. Say 9 to 4

 

[Kepler]

In regards to have 100% hand throttle without effecting PAS seems to outside of the parameters we have available to us with this software. Perhaps it can be done but I can't see how it can be done at this stage.

On the Throttle tab set the Designated Assist to 9 and the Speed Limited to By Display's Command, this will give 100% assist (level 9) no matter what the display is set to and cut off at 50kph (max for the display unit)

Nice one pj, that makes sense. Not sure if I will personally set up this way but I know there are plenty of people here who would like it set up that way.

BTW, just got back from Jaycar and picked up the plug you found. Will chuck it in the lathe and machine it to the right diam. Will be much happier experimenting with setting knowing I cant stuff up plugging in the programing cable

 

[Somebodystopme!!]

I wish we had a Jaycar here in the states! I can find that connector anywhere in Southern California.

 

[kevo]

Pjgold/Kepler,
Not sure I understand your instructions for turning off PAS and allowing full throttle in mode 0.
Could you elaborate a bit for us slower learners?

 

[pjgold]

BTW, just got back from Jaycar and picked up the plug you found. Will chuck it in the lathe and machine it to the right diam. Will be much happier experimenting with setting knowing I cant stuff up plugging in the programing cable

Yep much easier just to test the effect of 1 setting at a time with the correct plug.

I set all assist levels to 100% speed today and it is a much better set up and you can reduce the assist setting as you suspected.
I am pretty happy with the PAS settings now and will leave them alone for a while and see how my commute goes. Note Cellman Paul also set my unit to max at 16A which in reality is actually about 20A I have left it at this setting as it is more than enough for my needs.

These are my current settings

 

[Kepler]

Pjgold/Kepler,
Not sure I understand your instructions for turning off PAS and allowing full throttle in mode 0.
Could you elaborate a bit for us slower learners?

Have a look at Pj's settings.

On the first page you will see Assist0 is set to 0 Limit Current % and 0 Limit Speed.

On the 3rd page you will see Designated Assist set to 9. Usually this is set to "By Display Command"

Speed limited is still kept as "By Display Command" as normal.

This turns PAS off on Assist0 but still gives you full throttle ability up to the set speed limit on the display. PAS is still active on all other settings but there is always 100% hand throttle available. Correct Pj? (I haven't actually tested this)

 

[Kepler]

Made a decent programming lead today using the the plug suggested by Pjgold. Was a couple of hours work but the end result was a reliable OEM style plug that i could trust. Very pleased with the results.

 

[pjgold]

Have a look at Pj's settings.

On the first page you will see Assist0 is set to 0 Limit Current % and 0 Limit Speed.

On the 3rd page you will see Designated Assist set to 9. Usually this is set to "By Display Command"

Speed limited is still kept as "By Display Command" as normal.

This turns PAS off on Assist0 but still gives you full throttle ability up to the set speed limit on the display. PAS is still active on all other settings but there is always 100% hand throttle available. Correct Pj? (I haven't actually tested this)

I'm not sure why but Assist 0 still gives you both no throttle and no PAS when set to 0 and 0. Setting 0 must be a software off that the throttle settings don't override.
However if you put 1% in the assist 0 speed % this will give you no PAS and 100% throttle.
For the rest of the settings PAS is still active and 100% throttle is always available.

 

[Kepler]

And of course I did plenty of testing with my new programing cable

Tried lots of settings and tracked the current / Watts with a remote shunt equipped CA

Settled on the settings as pictured for today any anyway. Boring even steps setup on page 1 with 100% limit speed % across the board. It is amazing how linear the steps are starting at 130W at Assist0 (PAS) and going to 550W at Assist9 (PAS). Full throttle gives no boost on Assist0 and even goes backwards a little. Assist 1 to 9, full throttle has an exponential increase with just a slight boost on Assist1 with Assist9 nearly receiving a 100% boost going from 550W PAS to 1050W full throttle.

I had big hopes for "Work Mode" on page 2 but going from setting 10 to setting 80 made no perceivable difference to the power output on PAS or throttle.

Anyway, i think these setting are definitely better then stock at least for my style of riding.

 

[pjgold]

I had big hopes for "Work Mode" on page 2 but going from setting 10 to setting 80 made no perceivable difference to the power output on PAS or throttle.

This is interesting because I found this made a big difference, perhaps I changed 2 things at once. I don't think this setting changes the power level just how much of the RPM range it is applied to. Perhaps the Current Decay is the one making the most difference or a combination of both.

 

[amigafan2003]

Just programmed my BBS02 48v500w - success - thread delivers!

Just a few simple tweaks - 100% in all pas modes, 100% speed in all PAS modes, tweaked throttle to start at 30% current instead of 20%, same with PAS. Reduced "power off after stopping pedalling" from 25ms to 20ms.

Happy with those tweaks for now. What I'd really like is just 5 modes, but when I set 5 modes in the dislpay programmed as follows:-

mode pas speed
0 0 0
1 10 100
2 25 100
3 50 100
4 75 100
5 100 100
6 100 100
7 100 100
8 100 100
9 100 100

I got an "Err 11" on the display - still PAS and throttle still worked but couldn't change mode - wonder it doesn't like modes 5 through 9 having the same value?

 

[Tom L]

Weird. ERR11 is the controller temperature sensor error.

What happens if you set the number of PAS levels to 5 using the display settings? Hold [+] and [-] together until you get into the settings menu then while holding [+] and [-] together press the power button 8 times to go to the advanced settings where you can set the number of PAS levels.

 

[amigafan2003]

EDIT:-

Sorted it - I was trying to program the amp limit from 18 to 20 at the same time - it was this causing the err 11 - so it seems the controllers have a max amp limit hardcoded somehow (still happy at how it perfoms at 18a though!).

So I now have 5 modes only, with the controller programmed as:-

mode pas speed
0 0 0
1 10 100
2 25 100
3 50 100
4 75 100
5 100 100
6 100 100
7 100 100
8 100 100
9 100 100

That's me happy - it now does exactly what I want it to

 

[Ken Taylor]

I had big hopes for "Work Mode" on page 2 but going from setting 10 to setting 80 made no perceivable difference to the power output on PAS or throttle.

Without having tried it I think it sets the rate at which motor power varies with pedal cadence and speed. Having motor power as a function of human power is good but requires extra sensing. Some controllers use cadence as a proxy for human power and I've seen manufacturer claims that it works reasonably well.

From the explanation it looks like, if you pedal faster you get more help but if you go faster you get less. This would get extra motor power on hills and changing down gets you a boost in power. A high number should improve battery economy at the cost of a bit lower top speed. This is because power consumed to climb grades gets you up proportionally faster but power consumed to go faster, when you are already fast, goes up with speed cubed. It is also why a weaker rider can often keep up on the flat, especially when wheel sucking, but will get dropped on the hills.

 

[amigafan2003]

I had big hopes for "Work Mode" on page 2 but going from setting 10 to setting 80 made no perceivable difference to the power output on PAS or throttle.

Without having tried it I think it sets the rate at which motor power varies with pedal cadence and speed. Having motor power as a function of human power is good but requires extra sensing. Some controllers use cadence as a proxy for human power and I've seen manufacturer claims that it works reasonably well.

From the explanation it looks like, if you pedal faster you get more help but if you go faster you get less. This would get extra motor power on hills and changing down gets you a boost in power. A high number should improve battery economy.

Yeah - I think this is one of the key settings we need to figure out.

I do notice that motor speed does vary with cadence (i.e. higher cadence, more motor speed) from a quick test on the workstand. Ideally I'd like to be able to set the max cadence at which max motor speed is achieved somewhere to around 70rpm. I think mine is currently set at around 100rpm (no way to tell exactly without a cadence meter).

 

[Ken Taylor]

Yeah - I think this is one of the key settings we need to figure out.

I do notice that motor speed does vary with cadence (i.e. higher cadence, more motor speed) from a quick test on the workstand. Ideally I'd like to be able to set the max cadence at which max motor speed is achieved somewhere to around 70rpm. I think mine is currently set at around 100rpm (no way to tell exactly without a cadence meter).

You are quick. I was still editing. I don't think it is maximum motor speed but the extra help, above your own effort, you will get at a particular speed and cadence. On a work stand this will equate to a maximum speed as you aren't adding any human power and there isn't any load.

 

[shanman3us]

So just to clarify in my head, all the available programming is only if you have BBS02 and a C961 display? Has anyone tried the software/hardware combo with the original display or the newer C963? What about the BBS01?

Thanks.

 

[ErikDK]

I do notice that motor speed does vary with cadence (i.e. higher cadence, more motor speed)

The two are mechanically locked together.

Only on Panasonic mid motors can the ratio be changed by changing the motor sprocket.

 

[amigafan2003]

I do notice that motor speed does vary with cadence (i.e. higher cadence, more motor speed)

The two are mechanically locked together.

Only on Panasonic mid motors can the ratio be changed by changing the motor sprocket.

Yes of course - I meant power level.