Programming the Bafang Middrive BBS01+BBS02

@ hie2kolob:
Reprogramm your motor to higher rpms and padel faster, that is less stress for the Controller. What gears are U using? The 46/48 up front is much to big for mountains. Gear your motor down an pedal faster.

If you want to do 25miles on flat ground I would recomend to gear the motor so you reach that in highest gear and 100rpm at the crank.

38 front to 13 rear is good for 25miles with a BBS02. If 20miles on flat ground is fine for you go done to 34T up front.

38front and 34rear is good for Mountains. 34 to 34 is even better :)
 
If I set "keep current" to 100%. Is this 100% off the active assist level, or the "limited current"?

On a BBS01 36V250W with "limited current" 15A. If the highest assist level is 47% and "keep current" 100%. Will this limit my engine to 250W? so I will not have any overheat issues on a 4km hill with 8% grade?
 
Queries about the settings available for those who have played with this more than i.

Am trying to make sure i understand as well as possible what they mean before i mess with them and even after going through the entire thread, taking notes, and getting a nice set of notes from eMAX, i need some clarification on three issues.

1: Work Mode (Angular Speed of pedal/wheel*10).

On the stock settings i got, this is set as "Undeterminated". Yet on some of the other listings of settings i have seen it is set to 10.
WTF does "Undeterminated" mean???
And how do people who have changed it from that to a number reckon it affected their PAS operation?

2: Keep Current.

So, i have my PAS levels set now as:

Level Current% Speed%
PAS0 0 100
PAS1 20 100
PAS2 30 100
PAS3 40 100
PAS4 50 100
PAS5 60 100
PAS6 70 100
PAS7 80 100
PAS8 90 100
PAS9 100 100

Limited Current is 18amps. Speed set on the display to 40km/hr

At the moment, Keep Current is stock and set at 60%.

So, does this mean that:

A: The actual current limits on the Basic page are modified by this value? ie: PAS9 at 100% is not 18A but in fact 60% of that, 10.8A.

or

B: The actual current limits on the Basic page are as listed. ie PAS9 at 100% is 18A.

BUT, as you approach the Limit Speed it starts to ramp current down to 60% of the value for that PAS level is set to??

If A, then i can see it makes sense to set Keep Current to 100%. But WTF would they have a user defined setting that modifies another user defined setting???

If B, then setting Keep Current to 100% could be a problem if using the higher levels of assist? On PAS9 the way i have it set it would be drawing 18A continuous.

Now, that said, i could simply NOT use PAS9 for long periods or on long hills but i'd really like to know how these parameters work.

3: Throttle settings.

On the Throttle Handle page i set Designated Assist to 9. On my settings that gives me 100% current (18A) and 100% speed (40km/hr) available on throttle.

Speed Limited on this page is set to "By Displays Command" which is 40km / hr.

If I set Speed limited to a number (say 10km/hr), would that over-ride whatever is set by the Designated Assist setting?????
 
bgt said:
Try Google translator, not to bad...

It appears to address some complaints here...

The project BBS Power Optimizer and 'born within Alcedo LAB from the need to improve the management of this fantastic engine. The BBS and 'being marketed by Bafang in 2013 and now has been a huge success thanks to its unquestionable quality': and 'a universal motor that can' be installed on 95% of the existing bike, and 'very quiet, very early assists by pedaling cadences more 'low, and' very reliable, lightweight, and does not cost too much.

However, during our testing showed certain issues related to the management software assistance. The power delivery is done in a manner inversely proportional to the pedaling cadence. Piu 'and' low cadence more 'current is delivered (of course depending on the level of service selected by the control panel on the handlebar). This peculiar feature of the BBS determines behavior certainly unusual, especially if we add the fact that only with the pedal sensor (PAS) supplied with the kit motor system is not 'capable of delivering all the power it has.

We asked about the possibility 'to intervene at the level of programming software of the control unit (controller) original, but we struggled with insurmountable problems. So 'we thought we'd put in delmotore an electronic control module (microcontroller) can offer better management of care. Today with the Power Optimizer and 'can have all the power and' capable of delivering the engine to any frequency (up to 80 revolutions per minute for 36V versions and 105 revolutions per minute for 48V versions), in steadily and naturally tied to the level of service selected. I would add that the OP allows greater reactivity 'in departures and take care (a function of cut-off). And also 'been added functionality' very important to safeguard the changing of the bike. When the chain is not 'in voltage automatically enters the cut-off function in order to make more' accurate gear shifting, thus preserving both the change that the chain, away from violent jerks due to the force of the motor.
The OPTIMIZER POWER and 'for sale at 119 euro (89 euro + 30 euro installation at our headquarters). It 'compatible with all versions of Bafang Mid Drive BBS (BBS01 36V 15A 250W, BS01 36V 18A 350W, 48V 15A 350W BBS01, BBS02 36V 20A 500W, 48V 20A 750W BBS02, BBS02 48V 25A 750W) and can' only be installed by ALCEDO ITALY
 
astmacca said:
Queries about the settings available for those who have played with this more than i.

Am trying to make sure i understand as well as possible what they mean before i mess with them and even after going through the entire thread, taking notes, and getting a nice set of notes from eMAX, i need some clarification on three issues.

1: Work Mode (Angular Speed of pedal/wheel*10).

On the stock settings i got, this is set as "Undeterminated". Yet on some of the other listings of settings i have seen it is set to 10.
WTF does "Undeterminated" mean???
And how do people who have changed it from that to a number reckon it affected their PAS operation?

2: Keep Current.

So, i have my PAS levels set now as:

Level Current% Speed%
PAS0 0 100
PAS1 20 100
PAS2 30 100
PAS3 40 100
PAS4 50 100
PAS5 60 100
PAS6 70 100
PAS7 80 100
PAS8 90 100
PAS9 100 100

Limited Current is 18amps. Speed set on the display to 40km/hr

At the moment, Keep Current is stock and set at 60%.

So, does this mean that:

A: The actual current limits on the Basic page are modified by this value? ie: PAS9 at 100% is not 18A but in fact 60% of that, 10.8A.

or

B: The actual current limits on the Basic page are as listed. ie PAS9 at 100% is 18A.

BUT, as you approach the Limit Speed it starts to ramp current down to 60% of the value for that PAS level is set to??

If A, then i can see it makes sense to set Keep Current to 100%. But WTF would they have a user defined setting that modifies another user defined setting???

If B, then setting Keep Current to 100% could be a problem if using the higher levels of assist? On PAS9 the way i have it set it would be drawing 18A continuous.

Now, that said, i could simply NOT use PAS9 for long periods or on long hills but i'd really like to know how these parameters work.

3: Throttle settings.

On the Throttle Handle page i set Designated Assist to 9. On my settings that gives me 100% current (18A) and 100% speed (40km/hr) available on throttle.

Speed Limited on this page is set to "By Displays Command" which is 40km / hr.

If I set Speed limited to a number (say 10km/hr), would that over-ride whatever is set by the Designated Assist setting?????


1. This function I believe is supposed to affect at what rpm peak power sits in PAS operation, however the effect is very subtle to the point where I can't pick any change no matter what I set it at. I have left mine at Underterminated which i assume means its not in use.

2. None of the above.
What this setting does when set at 60% is ramp the current down to 60% of the PAS level selected based on pedal cadence rpm, so at low pedal cadence you get 100% of the level selected but as your pedal cadence increases the power is reduced down to 60%. The Current Decay(1-8) determines how high up the pedal cadence rpm range it starts to reduce power, 8 being the highest. There is no detail on actual rpm speeds for the Current Decay setting.
I believe this setting is a carry over from hub motor settings as it makes perfect sense when you have no gears. However on a mid drive with gears this is what happens when you hit a hill with the setting at 60%. As you slow down your pedal cadence drops and the power increases up to 100% (of selected setting) as you slow down more you naturally drop down a gear to get more power for the hill, however as soon as you drop the gear the pedal cadence rpm increases and the power drops back to 60%. It actually encourages you to grind up hills at a low cadence rather than change up and spin up the hill at high cadence. With the set Keep Current set to 100% the assistance level does not change at all from what you select.

3. Yes, by setting it to 10kph you are setting it to disregard display settings
 
--freeride-- said:
@ hie2kolob:
Reprogramm your motor to higher rpms and padel faster, that is less stress for the Controller. What gears are U using? The 46/48 up front is much to big for mountains. Gear your motor down an pedal faster.

If you want to do 25miles on flat ground I would recomend to gear the motor so you reach that in highest gear and 100rpm at the crank.

38 front to 13 rear is good for 25miles with a BBS02. If 20miles on flat ground is fine for you go done to 34T up front.

38front and 34rear is good for Mountains. 34 to 34 is even better :)

freeride,

I think that you make a valid point but I am still glad that I have a way to monitor the temp. FYI when the controller blew I was using the Italian 42T. I just repeated this same 5000 elevation ride with a 36T front gear ring and pulled over a couple times to allow it to cool. This was using PAS levels from 30 to 50% .
 
Thanks for that pjgold.

Have just gotten back from a 25k ride after altering settings having looked at your previous.

100% keep current is nice. :)

I'm using everything set same as keplers last, except on the Basic page.

PAS0 is 0% current and 100% speed for throttle only operation.

PAS1-4 are set to 10/20/35/45% current and 75% Speed as they are the normal ones i use on my commute and anything over 30km/hr i'll put in. :)

On this arvo's ride i used PAS2 mainly, and throttle on a couple of hills and it was good.

Interesting today though. Got Error 21 out of the blue. Checked, and the magnet on the back wheel had twisted around so an easy fix.
 
I use a 38t chainwheel for my 250W BBS-01 because I found the 46t was too much for my 8th gear.I can run in the highest gear(8th) and the pull is enough now. Tuned my current setting to 10A i.o. 15A. The PAS levels are all with 100% speed setting. Keep current is 100% too. Max speed is set at 40km/h.
My bike:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11003205/eBatavusMambo.jpg
 
astmacca said:
Thanks for that pjgold.

Have just gotten back from a 25k ride after altering settings having looked at your previous.

100% keep current is nice. :)

I'm using everything set same as keplers last, except on the Basic page.

PAS0 is 0% current and 100% speed for throttle only operation.

PAS1-4 are set to 10/20/35/45% current and 75% Speed as they are the normal ones i use on my commute and anything over 30km/hr i'll put in. :)

On this arvo's ride i used PAS2 mainly, and throttle on a couple of hills and it was good.

Interesting today though. Got Error 21 out of the blue. Checked, and the magnet on the back wheel had twisted around so an easy fix.


Yep keep current 100% makes all the difference if you like to pedal.
I run my PAS settings a 5% intervals for the low power settings and step to 10% half way so you get a finer control around the power level you mainly commute at.

My settings are set at
0-10%
1-15%
2-20%
3-25%
4-30%
5-35%
6-40%
7-50%
8-60%
9-70%

My throttle is set to level 9 and all levels are set to 100% speed.
 
My settings are set at
0-10%
1-15%
2-20%
3-25%
4-30%
5-35%
6-40%
7-50%
8-60%
9-70%

My throttle is set to level 9 and all levels are set to 100% speed.

Curious?

Most people seem to set level PAS9 to 100% for current and speed, and then designate this as the throttle reference so the throttle can use the full current.

At least thats my understanding and what i did. Mines a 500W so current is limited to 18A on the Basic page.

How come you limit the current to 70% at PAS9??
 
astmacca said:
My settings are set at
0-10%
1-15%
2-20%
3-25%
4-30%
5-35%
6-40%
7-50%
8-60%
9-70%

My throttle is set to level 9 and all levels are set to 100% speed.

Curious?

Most people seem to set level PAS9 to 100% for current and speed, and then designate this as the throttle reference so the throttle can use the full current.

At least thats my understanding and what i did. Mines a 500W so current is limited to 18A on the Basic page.

How come you limit the current to 70% at PAS9??

I just found that I never used full power and I'd rather use the available settings with small increments, I am also using a 29e frame pack battery which is pushed by full power of the bbs 750w.
 
I am also using a 29e frame pack battery which is pushed by full power of the bbs 750w.

Ahh. Sense making it is. :)

I have the 29e Frame pack, but it matches well with the 18Amp of the 500w BBS02.
 
Hi Guys. Ok, this is what I have recently been telling people:

IMO, the PAS settings on the BBS02 kits are not bad, so long as users think about them in a certain way. Forget about assist level, IMO, that is not how it should be viewed. The PAS level should be used to set the pedal cadence. Just because it’s set to 9, does not mean it will pull more power (although it likely will of course), but if you pedal fast enough and hard enough to do much of the work, the kit will not provide much power, no matter the level that is selected.

PAS works like a switch on the BBS02. It does not adjust as you pedal faster or slower. When you set the PAS level it fixes the speed and it does not want to rotate at a speed much lower than that, or even accelerate smoothly to that speed. These are the reasons why the PAS settings should be left alone or only slightly adjusted. Most things in the software should be left alone, many people making changes are likely doing more harm than good and could very likely compromise the reliability.

Why do i say this?
1. OK, try this. get up to a certain speed using the PAS, now reduce your pedaling cadence, so all you are doing is spinning the pedals. reduce the pedal cadence very low, or speed it up, so it matches the motor speed. What happens when you change your pedaling cadence? I'll tell you, absolutely nothing changes. The PAS signal works like a switch, it's on or off. I'm not debating if this is right or wrong, I'm just pointing out that this is how it works and that is what you have to work with, when setting the controller up.
2. Pull away from a standstill in a fairly high gear (inappropriately high gear). what do you feel? The controller tends to sort of pulse when being asked to work at a low speed using the PAS function (it can accelerate smoothly from zero on the throttle, so i don't see why it can also do this with the PAS signal, but it can't). It seems to me like the controller when working in PAS mode, just does not seem to be able to function well at a speed significantly below the motor no-load speed. This motor no-load speed is adjusted by changing the PAS speed setting associated with that particular "Assist" level. The standard PAS settings start with a speed of ~40% in PAS assist level 1. Even with 40% speed, it will not pull away smoothly from a standstill in PAS only mode, so what's it gonna be like when you have every PAS level set to 100%?

So what happens when you ignore the above points I've made above (which are quite easy to confirm yourself) and set the speed to 100% for all PAS levels and only step the current up from a low 10 or 20% current in setting 1, up to 100% current in setting 9? What happens is this. That place where the controller doesn't want to be, that point where it pulses, is no longer only seen for a brief time as you get moving from a dead stop, it's now there all the time when you select a low PAS level (with low current ~10-30% combined with 100% speed) and use the kit. If you only ever pedal very fast, you could possibly use the kit set up in this way and it may work well for you, but a large proportion of users will complain it is crap because they don't use their bikes gearing properly and don't want to pedal at 120rpm the whole time. These users will complain it feels terrible, pulses and then breaks in a very short time (whilst they thought they were actually baying the kit in level 1).

Bearing all this in mind, does it now make sense why i say this:
IMO, the PAS settings on the BBS02 kits are not bad, so long as users think about them in a certain way. Forget about assist level, IMO, that is not how it should be viewed. The PAS level should be used to set the pedal cadence. Just because it’s set to 9, does not mean it will pull more power (although it likely will of course), but if you pedal fast enough and hard enough to do much of the work, the kit will not provide much power, no matter the level that is selected.

IMO, the BBS02 works best when the speed and current progressively increase from assist 1 through to 9 (as is done in the standard settings) and you use the PAS level to set your pedaling cadence and forget about it as assist or power level. Do not view it as an assist, it's not. If setting 5 is the right 1 for you, use setting 5, if you want to do more work, pedal faster and you will take the load away from the motor.

The SW changes can only make the best use of the hardware, when combined with using the kit in an appropriate way. You can't change the hardware limitations of the controller by changing a couple of settings, but you can use the software to tweak things to disguise it's shorfalls and hopefully avoid it operating in ways that are likely to blow a fet due to overcurrent. Did i mention the controller seems to have little or no phase current limiting, well it hasn't and the fets are cheap low level things that are easily blown. At least now, they have fitted 9 low quality fets to their 25A controller instead of 6 low quality fets, like the previous version 25A controller.

Bearing all this in mind, can people now understand why I state the below. This SW is really not something that should be out for anyone to use, you can very easily ruin the operation and blow a fet with a few small changes:
The BBS02 controller are very easily damaged with a single bad setting, so for all these guys changing settings, they should be aware they are easily damaged if incorrectly configured and it’s not fair to expect a warranty replacement on controllers, after changes have been made, no matter if those settings seem quite reasonable or not.

Thanks
Paul
 
Well, what Paul indicates is that the BBS-02 has a very poorly built controller and that limits its use for fine control on a city bike. A pity really. But good to read Pauls advice. Thanx.
 
bgt said:
Well, what Paul indicates is that the BBS-02 has a very poorly built controller and that limits its use for fine control on a city bike. A pity really. But good to read Pauls advice. Thanx.
I've programmed my BBS02 much as Kepler has and it works fantastic as a city commuter. No, it's not Bosch smooth, but I can ride at any speed I want you to about 25 mph
 
Interesting seeing Paul's post on the limitations of programming and i agree that if we change stuff not to expect warranty on the controller.

His information that the PAS settings should be looked at from a speed/cadence perspective is interesting to me as one of the things that annoys me about the programming it came with is that the assist cuts out at a bit lower speed than i like.

All this in a situation where it seems we have to be a bit careful with the mosfets in this controller for durability.

Anyhoo, got me thinking.

Is there any point in having any of the Limit Current% settings on the Basic page set any lower than the Start Current% setting on the Pedal Assist page??

If i am sufficiently recovered from the flu tomorrow :( i am going to reprogram back to more like stock on the Basic page at least and see how it goes. Start thinking of changing PAS levels when riding more from a "what speed to i want the assistance to go to" point of view than from a "how many watts is it putting out" perspective.

I'll set up the same current limit (30%) on each of PAS 1-3 but vary the speed limit% from 45-65%. Will see how it works out.
 
Played with the PAS level in the display > advanced configuration and the matching level settings on the basic page today.

When setting PAS level 0-3 with the display I get the matching 0-3-5-9 levels on the Basic page. Then when switching to 9 PAS with display I get all levels. So one way of having a dual setup where you can toggle this with dispaly without using computer/cable in order to limit motor power for e.g. granny usage, street legal, etc. configurations and then one with all levels and max power in level 8. When in PAS 3 i had current 0-10-20-30 and the motor was just giving me limited power as wanted.
 

Attachments

  • pas3and9.png
    pas3and9.png
    23.8 KB · Views: 6,448
Thanks for the info cellman.

Interestingly I don't see any of the symptoms you describe - pulsing, poor starting etc... and I usually pedal at a comfortable 80rpm. Though I don't take off in inappropriately high gear. I have a range of power assist levels and no speed limit set for all my PAS levels.

Also I find the PAS levels very handy. To assert they are not and to "forget about them" seems very strange advice to me. e.g. Riding on level ground all I need is a low assist level, climbing steep grades I use the maximum assist and this works brilliantly (in combination with selection of appropriate gearing).
 
Firstly thank you Paul for supplying me an excellent kit that have had no trouble with for over 4500 kilometres now.

I like to pedal at a consistent cadence of about 90 rpm and use all the gears of an alfine 8 hub to do so.
My take away for your post is that the Limit Spd(%) on the basic tab is a motor RPM limit not road speed limit.
With this in mind my best setting to set up for 90 rpm would be to set my Limit Spd(%) to 75%

Just a thought perhaps with a very low speed cadence the PAS signal is actually flicking on an off (pulsing), maybe increasing the Stop Decay(x10ms) and Time of stop(x10ms) might smooth it out. The other option would be to increase at the Startup Dgree to enforce some pedal speed before the PAS kicks in.
 
Being still very new I'll use my program cable to see how the two competeing sellers set up their motors. Sometimes getting old is very comfortable. I no longer have to squeeze blood out of every turnip. Reminds me of my overclocking days 20 years ago. Some very fast computers on a budget, until you fried a cpu or two.
 
My take away for your post is that the Limit Spd(%) on the basic tab is a motor RPM limit not road speed limit.

I can confirm that. Had a experiment with settings down at the park today even though i am currently a grumpy old bastard with flu.

Hate that. two weeks off and i get sick two days into it. :(

Anyway, I set the speed limit from the display to 50km/hr, and then put it in low gear and clown-pedaled while watching the speedo, chainring and trying different PAS levels.

PAS level speed% was programmed between 45% and 100% over the 9 levels.

PAS level current% was programmed 30% PAS 1-3 then 45% - 100% over PAS 4-9.

Start Current is 25% and Keep Current 100%.

Every different PAS level the chainring speed seemed to top out differently (faster as i went up the levels), AND power cut of on each PAS level well before the % of 50km/hr was reached that it would have if it had been working off the measured road speed.

Had another go around with Keep Current set back to the stock 60%.

Same result as far as PAS behavior. However, there was no abrupt cutoff when i hit its limit speed like the first time around which is actually noice on the flat stuff. Coming home took a couple of longish hills and thats where i noticed the difference with Keep Current set to 60%. Just not as much power available unless my cadence slowed and i stayed in a higher gear, so change down and cadence goes up power drops out............

Only change i am going to make now is back to 100% keep current and will ride that for a while.
 
:) antihistamines and paracetamol are wunderful things wot!?? :) Got grumpy and had to go for a ride.

Just had a 22km ride with the settings as my previous post. First half a little up and down and into a 12 -15knt ( 22-27km/hr) headwind. Averaged 24km/hr.

Used no higher that PAS3 except for a couple of short hills and was good. Keep Current at 100% is a definite for me.

I think this works for my riding style and local terrain well because i am using the gears and concentrating more on cadence.
 
Back
Top