QS273 vs 4AWG pics
- Thread starter ebike11
- Start date
DogDipstick
100 kW
ebike11 said:
Good luck. I will win, if you guys want to consider... All motors. We have a few here at the yard that took a single 53' tractor.
Common for industrial 3-7000 hp electric motors to only have 2-0 gauge wires leading to them ( and run on thousands of volts).
Was just thinking...if I added 4awg to only 1 phase wire and left the other 2 phase wires stock, would the motor perform oddly? I was thinking on doing a temperature comparision tests with temperature wires on the 4awg phase and one on the oem phase.
I can see the temperatures on my phone through the bms app
I can see the temperatures on my phone through the bms app
liveforphysics
100 TW
Might as well 2awg if you're running big phase currents.ebike11 said:
My phase leads get warm and are 000awg (850Amps RMS phase)
My new phase leads will need to be a pair of 0000awg (2400Amps RMS). I work too hard getting the motor slot filled with copper to waste an easy opportunity to decrease losses and let the cabling be a heat path for your controller and motor.
If I ever manage to have all the tools and time and motivation all at the same time 
I'd like to replace the axle in a motor with a pipe with a large enough inside diameter to pass whatever size phase wires I wanted, which could be larger than otherwise simply because wires can come out *both ends*, so one phase and all the data/etc lines can come out one end, and the other two phases can come out the other.
Should be able to use the same outer diameter pipe axle (at the core/bearing shoulder) as the original axle, and then skinnier bearings to fit over them but still fit in the same spot in the side covers. If necessary, modify the side covers (or make new ones) to house larger-ID bearings.
Then modify the frame of the bike/trike/etc to clamp around the pipe; would probably be better just from the much larger surface area of clamping than even a pinching/clamping torque plate / dropout would be on an axle with flatted sides.
I cna't find it now, but somewhere I have at least one post with some crappy sketches of this idea, with some details worked out.
(I did find this thread about a different idea: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=96354 .)
I did find my original post about the idea, which links to Farfle's thread where he did this
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=34750&start=225#p538389
So they don't disappear, I uploaded images from his photobucket links into this post:
I'd like to replace the axle in a motor with a pipe with a large enough inside diameter to pass whatever size phase wires I wanted, which could be larger than otherwise simply because wires can come out *both ends*, so one phase and all the data/etc lines can come out one end, and the other two phases can come out the other. Should be able to use the same outer diameter pipe axle (at the core/bearing shoulder) as the original axle, and then skinnier bearings to fit over them but still fit in the same spot in the side covers. If necessary, modify the side covers (or make new ones) to house larger-ID bearings.
Then modify the frame of the bike/trike/etc to clamp around the pipe; would probably be better just from the much larger surface area of clamping than even a pinching/clamping torque plate / dropout would be on an axle with flatted sides.
I cna't find it now, but somewhere I have at least one post with some crappy sketches of this idea, with some details worked out.
(I did find this thread about a different idea: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=96354 .)
I did find my original post about the idea, which links to Farfle's thread where he did this
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=34750&start=225#p538389
So they don't disappear, I uploaded images from his photobucket links into this post:
Attachments
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![2012-02-25165125[1].jpg](/sphere/data/attachments/178/178167-494c2fbb6b341f5c6b2de09c5624737a.jpg)
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![2012-03-24111419-1[1].jpg](/sphere/data/attachments/178/178171-876d9bac23dcd1a4a78ce917bb60f43f.jpg)
liveforphysics
100 TW
I love that bike, and I miss Jackson aka Farfle every day. What a kind and skilled hero! That motor was a beast to race against. I think he dyno'd 25-28rwhp if I remember correctly.
Do you think it would make any significant difference to torque handling of the pipe clamp if the bolt he had securing the removable clamp only went into the pipe just enough to "fill" the first surface? (like a "deep" grub screw, vs going all the way thru the pipe and out the other side)
I ask because it would be simpler to build and leave much more room in the pipe for the wiring, etc.
I ask because it would be simpler to build and leave much more room in the pipe for the wiring, etc.
liveforphysics
100 TW
amberwolf said:
Im sure you could drill each side and install a rivnut or tap it using thick wall tubing lathed thin everywhere but the grub screw threads area. That motors axle was so generous that the M6 or M8 bolt passing through it wasn't a problem with getting the phase leads to pass through easily. Granted your bearing drag losses increase more than needed with a smaller bearing and axle packed more tightly.
I'd be using most likely the same diameter pipe (basically the same as the internal shoulder size, just big enough to fit inside the existing cover bearing IDs if possible, and pass thru any freewheel or disc rotor normally).
I'd rather not drill both sides, and prefer only to do one (and that really only to hold the removable half of the clamp to it for ease of install, with the side effect of helping resist torque).
So if that kind of setup would not have troulbe with the torque levels I have (or want) on the SB Cruiser trike, I'd rather stick to just the one screw not protruding into the pipe ID at all, if possible.
I don't know the Nm numbers, but assume a max of 3/4 ton of trike, trailer, cargo, all at once, with enough torque to acclerate that from a stop on whatever uphill slope is typical for heading into an intersection on "flat" ground to 20mph in <3 seconds. ~4 seconds if the motor/controller combo I end up with eventually can't handle sub-3.
The trike full of groceries, plus me, is probably about 600lbs, and that's the most common situation I'd need that accleration with, but very occasionally I have a trailer full of heavy cargo to move (once every year or two) and I don't want things to break then, either.
I don't need high speeds, but I do need it to get to 20mph as quickly as possible without breaking anything (including tire traction), and I also need it to be able to handle regen torque on those wheels stopping that kind of mass as fast as possible, too (in case there is a mechanical disc brake failure, etc), wihtout breaking the axle clamping force and allowing twisting of the pipe.
Right now I already know the axle flats (of a pair of MXUS 3ks in 20" wheels), even in a clamp that secures the *entire length* of the flatted section for the inboard ends, is not sufficient to completely prevent axle problems, anything from eventual loosening over time to actual axle twisting or even breaking at the axle shoulder (transition from flatted to round).
The motors I will probably use for this pipe-axle mod are a pair of QS205s (I only have one complete one, the other is just a stator, no rotor or side covers, not sure what I'll do about that).
(I also have one UltraMotor from a stromer, gutted and wired for external controller; it's axle is MUCH better than the MXUS but it's still the typical flatted-sides type and has the same weakness in design).
I'd rather not drill both sides, and prefer only to do one (and that really only to hold the removable half of the clamp to it for ease of install, with the side effect of helping resist torque).
So if that kind of setup would not have troulbe with the torque levels I have (or want) on the SB Cruiser trike, I'd rather stick to just the one screw not protruding into the pipe ID at all, if possible.
I don't know the Nm numbers, but assume a max of 3/4 ton of trike, trailer, cargo, all at once, with enough torque to acclerate that from a stop on whatever uphill slope is typical for heading into an intersection on "flat" ground to 20mph in <3 seconds. ~4 seconds if the motor/controller combo I end up with eventually can't handle sub-3.
The trike full of groceries, plus me, is probably about 600lbs, and that's the most common situation I'd need that accleration with, but very occasionally I have a trailer full of heavy cargo to move (once every year or two) and I don't want things to break then, either.
I don't need high speeds, but I do need it to get to 20mph as quickly as possible without breaking anything (including tire traction), and I also need it to be able to handle regen torque on those wheels stopping that kind of mass as fast as possible, too (in case there is a mechanical disc brake failure, etc), wihtout breaking the axle clamping force and allowing twisting of the pipe.
Right now I already know the axle flats (of a pair of MXUS 3ks in 20" wheels), even in a clamp that secures the *entire length* of the flatted section for the inboard ends, is not sufficient to completely prevent axle problems, anything from eventual loosening over time to actual axle twisting or even breaking at the axle shoulder (transition from flatted to round).
The motors I will probably use for this pipe-axle mod are a pair of QS205s (I only have one complete one, the other is just a stator, no rotor or side covers, not sure what I'll do about that).
(I also have one UltraMotor from a stromer, gutted and wired for external controller; it's axle is MUCH better than the MXUS but it's still the typical flatted-sides type and has the same weakness in design).
It's not a goldenmotor.
That's a custom built motor made with two stators that originally came out of some GM motors, with a whole lot of custom parts and winding, etc.
See the link in my post for the motor design and build thread.
That's a custom built motor made with two stators that originally came out of some GM motors, with a whole lot of custom parts and winding, etc.
See the link in my post for the motor design and build thread.
Would be nice to have more specific info, but unfortunately those threads are the only detailed source of info on the motor, since he is no longer able to answer anyone's questions after his fatal plane crash. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=108071
The threads do provide some information; AFAICR the switch is because the motor ended up wound significantly faster than was intended, and smaller rim/etc wasnt' enough to compensate (but I haven't gone back to reread the thread since it's original posting; I only grabbed the pictures when posting the above).
The threads do provide some information; AFAICR the switch is because the motor ended up wound significantly faster than was intended, and smaller rim/etc wasnt' enough to compensate (but I haven't gone back to reread the thread since it's original posting; I only grabbed the pictures when posting the above).
Hi again guys
I wanna test the temperatures between the original phase wire and then another original phase wire that has 4awg cable crimped onto the wire around 15cm outside of the motor.
Im just curious to see the temperature difference. I will use 2 separate temperature probes that are connected to my ANT BMS and can be monitored on my phone.
Would the actual movement of the motor have any problems since 2 phase wires are original and the 3rd phase wire have such thick cable.
The lengths of all 3 phase wires is about 1 meter, from the motor to under the front forks because I mount my controller on the outside of the frame.
Thanks!
I wanna test the temperatures between the original phase wire and then another original phase wire that has 4awg cable crimped onto the wire around 15cm outside of the motor.
Im just curious to see the temperature difference. I will use 2 separate temperature probes that are connected to my ANT BMS and can be monitored on my phone.
Would the actual movement of the motor have any problems since 2 phase wires are original and the 3rd phase wire have such thick cable.
The lengths of all 3 phase wires is about 1 meter, from the motor to under the front forks because I mount my controller on the outside of the frame.
Thanks!
