Quantya Upgrade Build

[boogiemate]

Hi all

I'm doing my very first build! The build will be based on my Quantya Evo 1.

My goal is to get:
- Range min. 120km
- Top speed 120km/h
- Fast acceleration!

I plan to change tyres and wheels as i will not be driving off-road. Will also do some changes to the bikes look, so its a bit more street looking.

I like the idea of a hub-motor for its simplicity and so that I can fit a bigger battery.

I have been reseaching around the web for quite some time and have become very interested in the 72v QS motor 8000W 273 50H V3 + Kelly Controller
Are these numbers realistic with a setup like this, or should i go with something like the 12kw hub motor?

Let me hear your thoughts

 

[Xtr6]

I Did own a quantya for a few years and I would recommend to keep the motor and controller as it is wright now.
The altrax is verry easy to upgrade to 10-12 Kw, give the bike other gearing wil help you a lot to get to your wisches done.
This is the cheapes way to get this beauty running like a supermotard.

 

[boogiemate]

Yea, i was thinking about this option too. But that would just limit the amount of space for bigger battery so I'm worried that I will struggle getting that 100+ km range.

 

[SlowCo]

What if you follow Xtr6's idea and use the space under and in front of the frame to place extra battery cells? If you don't intent to ride off road but will keep the suspension and ride height as it is you can use the not needed ground clearance for a battery pack. The difference in ground clearance between your bike and an normal road bike seems at least 10cm / 4 inches.

 

[dan974]

any progress ?

 

[phil o' dendron]

Any updates?

Bought a Quantya with a dead battery & bms, replaced the cells, mounted the longest gearing that came with it
(large motor belt sprocket and rear 48t sprocket), but a little more top speed would be nice.
Next step is upgrade to 20s.

What kind of battery do you run?

 

[LeftieBiker]

My goal is to get:
- Range min. 120km
- Top speed 120km/h
- Fast acceleration!

The numbers are possible, but very mutually exclusive. How slow are you willing to go to go 120km without ruining the battery? If not very slow, then you need more batteries as noted above.

 

[phil o' dendron]

I am not as ambitious as the thread starter :wink:

100kph top speed would be nice.
Commuting to work is 20km one distance, and I can charge there.
10km from home I'm in the outback (woods, gravel "roads") where the fun starts.

Now the battery is 14s 40Ah, I got enough cells to build another 20s 40Ah, and an Alltrax AXE7245, but do not know
if it is working properly, actual controller is a AXE4844.

 

[phil o' dendron]

Hijacking boogiemate's thread, maybe he will post updates 8)

Got the Quantya registered, it's now road legal, and it is great fun. QuantYEAH!


With the smallest rear chainring I got, top speed is now 85 to 90kph fresh off the charger.
Lost quite a bit of acceleration, will gear down again when (if?) the upgrade to 20s is finished.

There is no bms, the Kokam cells stay well balanced, cell monitoring will be improved for less dangling.


The larger charger charges with 1C, saves time for riding.


First step to upgrade to 20s: replaced the controller
from this
to this

Maxxed out controller settings (450A, throttle up and throttle down rate to 15) and chose "progressive" throttle curve.
Alltrax controller pro 3.9 with Vivanco usb-to-serial converter worked on first try, not even necessary to select assigned port number.

Next step: adding a cycle analyst, try to implement "current control" with it.
There are "torque control modules" from picoamps.de and funenergy.at as add-ons for brushed controllers,
but I'd like to use a CA for that, with the well-known additional benefits (the Quantya 8-LED state-of-charge indicator really sucks).

Could anyone please show me the route to go, can the CA for monitoring and torque control be connected as shown here
(property of mightyboyev.com; simply using a shunt between battery and b- of the controller to get a shunt signal from battery current):


or should I go the more sophisticated route (pardon my drawing skills; using a hall current sensor HASS-500 with an isolated power supply to get the shunt signal from the motor current):


Thank you for your input.

 

[dan974]

Ok, I burnt the 4048, gone for a Kelly 72650, run a lot smother in torque mode, I stead of the speed mode withe axe 4840...gone for a domino instead of a magura, run Regen with a switch on rear break and stop motor o. Brake front and throttle switch...a lot safer...take of having cleaning the brushes regularly, sanding the copper some times other less you may encounter some voltage bounce at low speed, send me to wheeling from start or not able to drive safe in traffic at low speed, Kelly controller saved it, apply the tension possible on the belt or you will précharge needle bearings and bend the pivot axle or oval the hole of the rear arm at 20kw....burnt original LV relay on the main card cutting, as it fitted ground because of LC and throttle being high with AXE, burnt them, just put a copper plate for LV security, and I had a basic 80v voltmeter to check LV no more security....the lem 200 95 or 128 can't over speed or dislocate...check rpm/v...you can't run the not REInforced version at 72v...I run. Mine with 14s 40ah about 20/25km from 75kph to 85kph (real), faster is not reachable withouthaving too much battery sag...kokma cells are 200aContinuous , 400a peak....I set my Kelly a 500a/250a but I have short hills run being car ...I buying a second one tomorrow for spare parts, the plan is to fit a 100ah battery for less sag and more range...you can t reach high speed more than 100kph the gear ratio motor power won't allowed it...I run 17'' SM smaller sprocket and bigger pulley...you lose so much torque that the engine can't reach higher speed or speed decrease as soon as hill is coming and you can turn full throttle more than 1m...without killing the battery, my opinion better go with another controller than AXE+CA....
Where did you get the cells Kokam... I'd like to go with the 300x200....and built a larger box, cutting the frame if needed...,
I put a buzzer on the left turning signal too

 

[phil o' dendron]

dan974,

that' a lot of information and not only good news. Thank you for preparing me for what is coming up on the upgrade to 20s.

I don't know if understand all of your posting
but I will have a look at the brushes soon.
I thought there will be no major problems as the Quantya did only 963km when I bought it.

According to voltage sag:
I use those SLPB100216216 kokam cells also on an erider scooter in 30s configuration,
cycle analyst states 38mOhm for the whole battery.
They are used ones, original from Piaggio Liberty e-Mail, 2015 and 2016, mostly 120 to 250 cycles.
I bought a lot of them, you can have some if you arrange shipping.
Kokam data sheet says 8C contious, 15C pulse (whatever the length of the pulse may be)
http://kokam.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/SLPB-Cell-Brochure.pdf

Now I know that there's a possibility for data logging with the ControllerPro software, I will do some logged rides and look at voltage sag.

How can I check if the tension of the belt is correct?
If I got you right, it's better to add a little slack for not preloading the motor bearing?

Thanks for the tip with the kelly. I got a KLS7230 on my bicycle and it recectly killed all five hall sensors (throttle, regen and 3x motor) on the 5v rail, so I'm not too sure if I am satisfied with Kelly quality.

With all that hassle and worries, did you ever think of goin' brushless?
Did you see this:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93627&start=525#p1571525

QS 4000 mid will power a Quantya next weeks. ASI 8000, 5.8kwh 20s battery.

lets see if we can reach 40kw

and, at last, nice tip with the buzzer on the indicator. I might copy this :wink:

cheers, phil

 

[dan974]

I ll be back ASAP on my computer.where do you live ?

 

[boogiemate]

Oh hey!

I kinda thought this thread was dead.. I didnt notice that there actually was any activity on it, great to see

So to give you an update on my progress.. its been a lot of waiting for different parts and battery building and some some breaks from the project in between. But here is where I'm at today.

So I have build a test battery from old scooter and ebike batteries I recovered. This will mainly be for testing until I get a proper solution:
I've build a 26s13p pack. With BMS.



Then I've successfully installed the Hub motor and brakes. Some modificaton on the original swingarm had to be made.




Last week i started installing all the electrionics right now I'm just getting it all right before actually figuring out where and how I want it placed. Yesterday I got it running for the first time! (Yes I know that heatwrap totally failed.. need to get some new wrap :lol: )






I will try stay more active and bring more updates as i go along

 

[dan974]

Personlly I would never go for a hub motor...too heavy rear wheel ...
I plan to cut my second frame and build a larger battery and maybe go on brushless motor in the future...with as less parallel cells as possible, always some work when you need to change a cell...
Right now I have 19" and 18 original wheels controler AXE4844 and a LEM200 128 for sale regarding the price...I live in tropical island ...
If you change the shock absorber rear once I m on to buy it

 

[dan974]

dan974,

that' a lot of information and not only good news. Thank you for preparing me for what is coming up on the upgrade to 20s.

(Trevor @ LEM about the standard LEM200 127 We do not recommend taking the rpm above 4000 rpm above this then it will shorten the life of the motor.
The data sheet is not quite right the 127 is 60rpm/v and the D127 is 5662rpm/v.
4000tr/min /60V/rpm > 66,V
only the D127 can be upgrade to 72V...otherless the motor will disloc...

I don't know if understand all of your posting
but I will have a look at the brushes soon.
I thought there will be no major problems as the Quantya did only 963km when I bought it. classic cell failure...and garage

According to voltage sag:
I use those SLPB100216216 kokam cells also on an erider scooter in 30s configuration,
cycle analyst states 38mOhm for the whole battery.
They are used ones, original from Piaggio Liberty e-Mail, 2015 and 2016, mostly 120 to 250 cycles.
I bought a lot of them, you can have some if you arrange shipping.
Kokam data sheet says 8C contious, 15C pulse (whatever the length of the pulse may be)
http://kokam.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/SLPB-Cell-Brochure.pdf

I change 3 cells in 6000Km

Now I know that there's a possibility for data logging with the ControllerPro software, I will do some logged rides and look at voltage sag.

How can I check if the tension of the belt is correct? if it s free to move on the sides by a simple pressure of your thumb =), or pushing some pressure in the middle...since the teeth won't jumps...and you chain need 2cm just enough looseness not to touch the rear arms

If I got you right, it's better to add a little slack for not preloading the motor bearing? right, you want to reduceteh preloading and if not the bearings the pivot screw from the rear arm will bent under the pulley...

Thanks for the tip with the kelly. I got a KLS7230 on my bicycle and it recectly killed all five hall sensors (throttle, regen and 3x motor) on the 5v rail, so I'm not too sure if I am satisfied with Kelly quality.

I got the KDZ 726501E I'm quite happy with the smoothness of the torque mode and the temp control and the stop brake signal or stop signal on the domino throttle , I got a AXE 4844 for sale if needed...
With all that hassle and worries, did you ever think of goin' brushless? yes but didn'(t wnat to stop riding...yet I got a full second one for spare, I'll cut the frame and fix a new batterie and maybe brushless, but the LEM is pretty efficient, 8.5KW nominal can reach 20KW peak which is enough, the trouble is the 40Ah which is too small, too much sag to ride 90kph with a bigger pulley in front and small sprocket at rear...I think a 80/100ah battery is needed to run 50/60km around 90kph...
Did you see this:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=93627&start=525#p1571525

QS 4000 mid will power a Quantya next weeks. ASI 8000, 5.8kwh 20s battery.
lets see if we can reach 40kw

I know the LEM motor do 8.5kw continuous...and20kw peak , a QS8000 is coming , I think the 4000 won't bring more...an EMRAX 188 would do the work for an amzing bike , just need the controller and a cutted frame to fit the battery, this is much more my goal, but I know that it will probably kill the frame pivot that would need to be seized as the wiked point is the power train going by the axel pivot...too much ...around 25kw get them oval...as a friend did before the bike burnt...3mm isn't enough at this point for this kind of power and otherless the needle bearings of the axle will mark the axle which is quite hard to find even if I have source and got my self 3...my goal is to be able to ride it as long as possible without killing it with too much power knowing the wicked point...otherless you go without first stage reduction but need a custom large sprocket...too much work less ride...

and, at last, nice tip with the buzzer on the indicator. I might copy this :wink:
aliexpress buzzer and a variable turning relay , expect the sound to change when voltage sag with heavy power
I PM you for the cells
cheers, phil

 

[dan974]

sorry If it's too much on your topic , let me know maybe we can move to a more General keep the Quantya alive TOPIC :wink: