recumbent trike build. recommended motors ?

[Diamondback]

Hi all.

i am currently in the process of paying off my new recumbent trike. (HP Velotechnik Scorpion FS)
i expect to take delivery sometime in august.

my current ebike has an ezee geared hub and 20A controller (limited to 15A so battery reasons)
running 48V lifep04 (59V FOC and about 52V nominal)

im really happy with the performance of the ezee. it suits my riding style with only using it for assist,
rather than as an electric motorbike. i like the very good starting torque it has to offer,and it's hill climbing ability.

i have decided that the trike will be fitted with the new V3 CA and torque sensing bottom bracket when these become readily available.
i wish to set it up with no throttle and run it like a bionx system. power will be 12S 30C lipo at 8000 mah. ill have 2 sets of these packs.
one for shorter rides, and the 2nd set for longer rides. ill swap out the battery when required.

the trike has 20" wheels.

what's a good direct drive motor with similar performance (in a 20" wheel) to the ezee hub (in a 700C wheel)
im considering the DD option for 3 reasons. 1st is that it will be quieter. 2nd is the ability to run regen.
3rd is now im going to run lipo, i don't have to worry about limits of the power source. (12S 30C 8000 lipo)


one motor that has been recommended to me so far is the Crysatlyte HS4840.
also, what controller should i be looking at, taking into account 12S lipo and i want regen.

ill be looking at building up the E-trike in around 6 months, so i have plenty of time to get the parts list organized.

doesn't matter if the wheel is disc compatible or not, the trike only has a v brake for parking on the rear wheel.
dual discs up front though.

thanks in advance.

Jason.

 

[Xanda2260]

A 9c would be pretty good.
The normal 9x7 wind would be slow on 12s in a 20" rim (mines on a 26 inch and I run 18s). I get 40mph from mine, with the smaller wheel that would drop to about 30 (better acceleration though), with 12s it would be a tad over 20 I suspect.
Thinking about it, I spend most of my time pedalling along at 20ish so that might be good for you. Hill climbing would be decent too.
As for controller, I have a lyen 12 fet 4110, and am slamming 50amps into my 9c easily. With the smaller wheel you could get away with less current, so a 9 fet may do ya. If there's any chance you will want to go faster in future though, get a 12 fet.

 

[Diamondback]

i spend most of my time pedalling at around 20km/h, so if i could get 20 mph (48km/h) id be very happy indeed.
as long as it still had decent hill climbing ability.

thanks for the info.

Jason.

 

[Xanda2260]

i spend most of my time pedalling at around 20km/h, so if i could get 20 mph (48km/h) id be very happy indeed.
as long as it still had decent hill climbing ability.

thanks for the info.

Jason.

In a 20" rim, hill climbing should be a cake-walk, even with relatively low amps.
Keep us posted!

 

[dogman dan]

Given your riding style, an HT motor, or 9c 2807 should work well. But if you want faster, then go to the HS or 2806, or 2805 9c.

Check out various motors and speeds on the Grin Cyclery website simulator.

 

[Diamondback]

will do for sure.

just going over the simulator at ebikes.ca.

a 9C 2805 in a 20" wheel at 49.8V 8ah lipo with only 25A controller would seem to suit my needs.

the simulator suggests a theoretical top speed of 50.4km/h (plenty for my needs)
i would prefer more torque than speed. if i can maintain 30km/h with peaks around 40 ill be more than happy.
the simulator suggests the 2805 / 20" combo with 25A controller would have a range of 31 km at 12.4 wh/km.

not bad at all.

the simulator suggests a figure lower for the acceleration with the DD vs the ezee.

Jason.

 

[Diamondback]

might just give up on regen and stick with what i know.

the ezee will do 39kph and 9.3 wh/km. 41km range (according to the simulator)

that's enough range for me, and there's no "drag" from the motor freewheeling when not powered up,
which for me is a lot of the time. for instance on Sunday i rode 59km and used only 6.8ah.

the weekend before i did a 40km nite ride, and the lights used more power than the motor did !
the CA said 0.7ah used, and the battery took 1.9ah to charge.

the ezee is plenty powerful enough for me.

i still want to set it up like the bionx when the new CA is available though.
i love the idea of no throttle. i test rode a recumbent with the bionx a few months ago,
only for a very short time though (2 minutes maybe) and it's just so natural and intuitive,
just pedal and not thinking about throttle use.

just have to figure a way to have a dial hooked up to the CA to set the assist from zero up to 100%.

Jason.

 

[Diamondback]

i gave this a load of thought today.

i have decided to go with the ezee hub and not have regen.

i think it will suit my needs and riding style well.
i will post up a thread once it all comes together.

thanks everyone for listening and offering advice.

Jason.

 

[Diamondback]

thought i would give an update on this.

i haven't forgotten about the build.

i take delivery of the trike tomorrow morning.
going to ride a few km's with no motor. just to shake down any potential problems with any new bike / trike.
once im happy that it's all good, it will be a go for adding the motor.

ill post pics and other info here once it's done.

jason.

 

[ddk]

I also prefer to pedal and the use of pedelec sensors. Even the 'dumb' types are ok for my use, once I realized judicious application of the (e)brake lever solved most of my issues with the dumber-er types.

I've recently had occasion to directly compare the hill-climbing ability of a Aotema DD mounted in a 16" rim vs. an ampedbikes* mighty mite geared-drive mounted in a 24" rim.
On a slope test with random grades the DD failed earlier (8%) than the GD (10%) when starting from a standstill.
They both failed at the about same place when slowly powering up the slope at about the 11% grade.
The Aotema mounted in the 16" rim with a 36V battery has a top speed of 14mph or 22kph
The ampedbikes mounted in a 24" rim with a 36v battery has a top speed of 20mph or, likes dey seez in France, 32kph (yep ugli 'murican here)
-others' results will vary since we all don't carry the same amount of weight (in our discussions nor on our bodies).

*ampedbikes mighty mite is a mid-speed MUXUS 350w geared-drive hub motor (the smaller, lighter one)(lol)

 

[Diamondback]

I plan to use an Ezee geared hub in a 20" wheel. Running on 12S lipo (44v nominal)

I'm planing to run a V3 CA with no throttle, and the new TQ sensing BB.
I have high hopes that this will behave much like the Bionx system.

Top speed around 30 kph will be more than enough for me.

I guess time will tell.

Jason.

 

[ddk]

I just sold a trike that had a pedelec system like what BMSbattery sells.
http://www.bmsbattery.com/ebike-parts/306-ebike-torque-sensor.html
I was very happy with it's pedelec system; not so happy about the trike's seating vs my back.
Conveniently I just recently rode a bionx-equipped bike. Their pedelec systems are imo, close enough for me.
I haven't seen or ridden the Ezee geared-motor but in general I prefer geared-motors over direct-drive motors on a bicycle/tricycle.
caveat- I have limited experience with direct-drive motors having only had or installed 4 total.
I'm considering using DD hubs on my trailer specifically for their regen braking ...something about descending a 6-mile long 6% grade makes me want this.

-as for speed, 32kph puts you in an area where a crash becomes devastating along with close-encounters with bigger vehicles significantly increasing.
Don't bother asking me how I know.

Take care

 

[Diamondback]

i got the trike on saturday !








below is a link to the album with all pics we took on the day as it was assembled.

http://s101.photobucket.com/albums/m41/exaturbo/HP Velotechnik Scorpion FS/

did 54km (33 miles) on Sunday un-powered. nearly killed me

the ezee kit is going on this week. pics will follow once that is done.

i have to wait until the CA V3 is in final release before i get one and add the Thun BB so i can set it up exactly how i want.
till then, ill run the standard ezee kit with a throttle.

Jason.

 

[docnjoj]

That is a great trike and I'm sure you will enjoy it. Do remember torque arms on the rear motor, particularly the geared EZ. Those are alloy dropouts and need re-inforcement. Grin has some nice new rear ones and Dr Bass makes good ones too.
otherDoc

 

[Diamondback]

already on the torque arms.

im going to add the ebikes rev 4 tq arm on it.
the little ezee sure makes some great torque. i was impressed with it in the 700C wheel on my upright bike.
can't wait to see how it pulls in a 20" wheel.

Jason.

 

[ddk]

while flags add very significant drag get one ( or two, so you can feel 'special' )
They do help car drivers appreciation of your whereabouts when they're not texting or reading their newspapers of surfing the web or....

nice looking trike btw.

 

[Diamondback]

Thanks.

I have a flag too.
I optioned it when building it. It's a white pole with a high viz orrange flag.

Can't say I really even noticed any drag from it.
I'm sure it does create drag, I just didn't notice much.

Jason.

 

[ddk]

Thanks.

I have a flag too.
I optioned it when building it. It's a white pole with a high viz orrange flag.

Can't say I really even noticed any drag from it.
I'm sure it does create drag, I just didn't notice much.

Jason.

flag-drag adds about 15wpkm at 32kph on my set-up, which I find to be 'significant' .
Below 32kph the drag dramatically decreases and at 20kph is no longer 'significant'

 

[Diamondback]

Wow. 15wh per km is very significant.
Most of the time, I will be below 20kmh, so that shouldn't
Be too much of an issue for me.

Jason.