S12S undocumented connectors

[hsors]

Does anybody have S12S (BMS Battery controller) complete specifications, especially about how speed control works ? Here is a copy of an email string with BMS Battery where my questions remain largely unanswered. Thanks.

My initial question:
Jack
Do you know what is the usage of the two connectors (looking like short circuit) that I am showing on the photo here below ?
Thanks for your help


BMS Battery answer:
Hi,
The blue is for cruise. The grey is for EABS.

My next question:
Thanks
It means that I can connect the blue to a switch and cruise is ON when the switch is open ?
What does EABS mean ?

BMS Battery answer:
Hi,
The EABS is useless. Please ignore it. What do you want about the cruise?

My next question
For cruise, I'd like to know what is the procedure to block the speed at a given level.
Thanks,

BMS Battery answer:
Hi,
Now it works automatically. When you ride for few minutes, it works. Or you can connect to a button to active and deatctive it.

My next question:
Jack,
I don't understand.
To me, cruise control is when the speed is stabilized at a given level with no need to press the throttle or to pedal.
Can you tell me what does the controller do (versus throttle, PAS and speed stabilization) when the blue wire is connected and what it does when it is open ?
If you happen to have documentation explaining all those things, can you send it to me ?
Thanks for your help.

BMS battery answer:
Hi,
Just try it! You will know. If you disconnect it, it needs a button to active. Try it.

Then I gave up and will probably go the Chinese way: test and try...
But if by any chance somebody has a specs, that would be nice and I would feel more comfortable !
Thanks,
-Henri

 

[fellow]

View attachment 1The cruise control works like this: If you are at the same throttle/speed for about 5 seconds, it will continue at that speed even if you later change the throttle to zero position. You can deactivate it by moving the throttle (you have to be fast) to 100%, and then moving it as fast back to 0%. When at 100% already, to have to move it to 0%,then 100%, then 0% again. Good luck doing that! This is something you can't do in an emergency situation, as you have to do it in a right manner/sequence. It doesn't disconnect every time . All the work you save by not having to hold it at the same throttle position is payed back with interest when you are trying to disengage it .

It's a really dangerous function! The other way to deactivate the cruise control is by hitting the brake (if it's connected to the controller, and the wire is not loose). I had few of my friends test driving it with cruise control active and almost 100% of them got killed on their first ride. They simply panicked as the bike continued at the same speed. Almost burned the motor that day. I'll say remove the jumper and use the throttle without cruise control.

EABS? Have no clue, electronic ABS/soft regen maybe?

 

[Tench]

I have tried that mode of cruise control, damn scary! don't go there! more like controlled speed crashing!

If cruise is something you want then have a button to activate/deactivate it and do wire up your brake cut out switches, both of them!

 

[d8veh]

With the cruise wires connected, the cruise function is active. It will engage if you keep the throttle position still for 5 seconds, which is difficult except at full throttle. Then it will hold that speed regardless of throttle position unless you blip the throttle. It will also cancel if you apply a brake with a cut-off switch connected.

Although I haven't tried it, one member said that you can put a switch on those wires, and when you switch it on, it instantly engages the cruise function without having to hold the throttle still. If it does that, it would be very useful.

If you don't have brake cut-offs, any cruise function is very dangerous. The above automatic cruise after you hold full throttle for 5 secs will scare you to death until you get used to it. All cruise controls take a while to get used to, but are very useful once you've mastered them.

 

[eagle_eye]

.
One can connect a 'cruise control button' switch to the cruise wire also and engage or disengage cruise function if needed. It works sort of like a momentary push-button switch.
Such cruise control buttons often come accompanied with half/full or thumb grip throttles. In case cruise is engaged at times, pressing the cruise button usually will stop it again, just like a brake with cut-off switch ..

Red button: cruise control
.

 

[Avitt]

.
One can connect a 'cruise control button' switch to the cruise wire also and engage or disengage cruise function if needed. It works sort of like a momentary push-button switch.
Such cruise control buttons often come accompanied with half/full or thumb grip throttles. In case cruise is engaged at times, pressing the cruise button usually will stop it again, just like a brake with cut-off switch ..

The S12S doesn't have such a momentary cruise switch input. It only has two state options: cruise function on, or cruise function off. If it is on, then it is activated with a steady throttle input, as described above.

Note that the LCD3 can activate cruise, by pressing and holding the "down" button. It remains to be seen if this function works with the S12S. (I have an LCD3 on the way, and will report back...)

 

[eagle_eye]

.
Ok, so then this possibly needs a momentary pushbutton with latching functionality to make it work as cruise control switch with S-series controllers with cruise wire input ..

The S12S doesn't have such a momentary cruise switch input. It only has two state options: cruise function on, or cruise function off. If it is on, then it is activated with a steady throttle input, as described above.

...

 

[Avitt]

You can use a push-on/push-off switch on the blue wire loop, to turn the cruise control option on or off. But there is no way (that I know of) to actually activate the speed control with a switch input.

 

[eagle_eye]

.
will test cruise function via the wire for sure with a S06s controller, coming from a new rev. KU93 controller where it works ok with the cruise control button on a Wuxing-type half grip throttle. That is if those bmsbatt. folks settle to start shipping it eventually

 

[hsors]

Thanks for those clarifications. I'll connect cruise control to a switch and will make sure the brake cut out switches are correctly wired and will make some tests...
I guess with cruise ON, PAS has no impact (meaning speed is maintained even with no pedaling).
Correct ?
-Henri

 

[d8veh]

Please let us know the results. I would like confirmation whether a switch on the cruise wires engages the cruise instantly. I was told that it does.

 

[fellow]

On s06s connecting the jumper wire does not engage it instantly. I had to restart the controller (if I remeber it correctly), and then fiddle with the throttle. Once when engaged by a throttle, removing the jumper wire didn't disengage the cruise control until rstart(again not remembering it 100%, I can be wrong). I remember it was not straight on/off. That's why I simply removed cruse control wires by cutting them inside the controller. The way it's constructed, it's useless to me.

 

[hsors]

Sure, I will post the results of my tests.
-Henri

 

[pn_day]

I'm also interested to know if this needs a momentary or on/off switch and whether it engages instantly. Cheers

 

[hsors]

Here are my observations about the S12S cruise control function along with my interpretation.
During the first tests in my workshop (before cutting the cruise control jumper) I maintained the throttle at the same position during ~5s and when I released it, the wheel continued to spin at (apparently) the same speed, until I activated the cut out function of the brake, which stopped the motor.
Then I connected the cruise jumper to a switch and did the same test again in real biking mode (switch being closed): maintain the same speed with the throttle during ~5s and release the throttle. The cruise mode did NOT activate, which is different from what I observed in my workshop.
Then I did a second test: open the switch, maintain the same speed during 5s with the throttle, then close the switch and release the throttle. The cruise mode went ON.
My interpretation: the S12S does not control the speed but the torque. Therefore when the wheel was spinning in the air there was no torque requirement and maybe the controller behaves differently in this case. Anyway in my case and in real biking mode the cruise control does NOT activate automatically in the default configuration of the controller (jumper maintained).
I understand this is different from what follow and d8veh said but this is what I have observed on my set-up.
I haven't yet tested for how long the speed must be maintained for the cruise control mode to be activated by closing the switch.
-Henri

 

[fellow]

Hsors: I had to reboot the controller after removing the jumper, in order to cancel the cruise control without using the throttle (my memory is not serving me well). I was in a hurry, just remembering it acting wery fishy and not as expected. At the moment of testing, I didn't had brake switch wired on, so I could not test that funcion.

 

[d8veh]

Could you check whether the switch gives instant cruise when switched from off to on. If so, does the cruise immediately cancel when you switch it off?

 

[TheBeastie]

Somehow I posted twice, sorry!

 

[TheBeastie]

When I first started playing with cruise on S12S I thought it was instant switch based but I have only got it to work with the 5 second hold constant speed method. The thing is that I still think that it is worthy of a switch because sometimes I am just going at walking speed up to a traffic light etc keeping constant speed and suddenly cruise kicks in and I get a little creeped out, any hitting of any ebrake kills cruise instantly for me as far as I have noticed.

 

[hsors]

I suspect they have probably changed the firmware because on the version I use (received recently, a couple of weeks ago) the cruise control never goes on automatically, whichever the switch position is. Cruise control is turned on when the switch is moved from open to close position and the throttle is used. If throttle is not used, cruise would not go on by closing the switch. There is no minimum time speed must be maintained: this is instantaneous. When cruise is on, opening the switch does not turn it off. There are three types of actions I have noticed that turn it off: 1) push and release the throttle 2) brake 3) increase speed by pedaling faster
I like the feature. The only thing is to make sure the brake cut out function works well (preferably on both brakes).

 

[d8veh]

If I understand what you've said, cruise is immediately engaged when you use the switch to switch it on. You disengage the cruise by blipping the throttle, operating the brake, exceeding the cruise speed by pedalling.

If that's true, you need a momentary switch rather than a latching one. That would be a very useful function.

 

[hsors]

Correct.
Yes a momentary push button would be better.
And Yes, this is good feature.

 

[pn_day]

Just in case anyone is still watching this thread, I tested with a momentary (horn) switch, and cruise is instantly selected assuming the following are true:
A) motor is going 8+ mph
B) cruise is enabled in advanced settings.

This seems like a very nice feature. Flicking brakes/throttle instantly kills the cruise.