Sabvoton or Kelly for 2400w bosch hub motor ?

[Molten-Core]

Hello people,

I bought for a fairly good price a Niu N1S, i am not really satisfied with acceleration and range, so here i am like everyone else on this board doing what we do best, bend our stuff to our will.

The Bosch motor seems to be rated to 2400w, the battery installed is a 17s10p, the controller is a lingbo that seems to be encrypted/locked so as not to be reprogrammed.

I intend to build a 17s30p battery as there is a lot of unused space under feet, pobably some LG M29 or samsung 29E, still wondering if i will reuse original bms or go for a bluetooth one.

My main question is: should i go with Kelly KLS7230s or sabvoton 72150? I hear that sabvoton has better acceleration, is it really that better? People also say that the new sabvotons are not really that reliable, i here that about kelly controller too, are there any resellers for these controllers in europe?

Thanks for the help people, once i start working on the beast i will open a thread in the ad-hoc forum.

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

I intend to build a 17s30p battery as there is a lot of unused space under feet, pobably some LG M29 or samsung 29E, still wondering if i will reuse original bms or go for a bluetooth one.

I'd say get a bluetooth one.

My main question is: should i go with Kelly KLS7230s or sabvoton 72150? I hear that sabvoton has better acceleration, is it really that better?

It depends on which part of the acceleration.
From 0 to 20 kmh, no, the sabvoton will be smoother and won't deliver a big kick, as opposed to the Kelly which will start full blast immediately
From 20 to top speed, yes, the Sabvoton will be likely to deliver more torque, it excels at delivering power at mid range. The Kelly will seem flat and sensationless in comparison. Seems like you get a huge kick and then nothing, while the sabvoton keeps pushing more and more.

Also, the Kelly you picked is physically rated at weaker values than the sabvoton: 120A continuous and 300A peak/phase, while the Sabvoton should be 150A continuous and 350A peak/phase. That will, for sure, make a difference.

When it comes to which brand you should pick, well that really depends on what you like. Some people prefer the kick at startup, some other will prefer the power the Sabvoton will offer in daily rides. Personnally, I don't care for low speeds so I prefer the Sabvoton since I almost never ride under 20km/h.

People also say that the new sabvotons are not really that reliable, i here that about kelly controller too, are there any resellers for these controllers in europe?

Kelly are usually a bit more reliable, from what people say. I've heard that recent sabvotons are less reliable than they used to be. Can't say if that's true, what I know is that I didn't have any issue with either of those brands. It'as always a gamble...
Kelly ones are a bit harder to set up and install though, I prefer the sabvoton interface which is clearer and the automatic angle detection feature is quite nice

 

[Molten-Core]

I'd say get a bluetooth one.

Spot on! Exactly my thoughts.

It depends on which part of the acceleration.
From 0 to 20 kmh, no, the sabvoton will be smoother and won't deliver a big kick, as opposed to the Kelly which will start full blast immediately
From 20 to top speed, yes, the Sabvoton will be likely to deliver more torque, it excels at delivering power at mid range. The Kelly will seem flat and sensationless in comparison. Seems like you get a huge kick and then nothing, while the sabvoton keeps pushing more and more.

Also, the Kelly you picked is physically rated at weaker values than the sabvoton: 120A continuous and 300A peak/phase, while the Sabvoton should be 150A continuous and 350A peak/phase. That will, for sure, make a difference.

When it comes to which brand you should pick, well that really depends on what you like. Some people prefer the kick at startup, some other will prefer the power the Sabvoton will offer in daily rides. Personnally, I don't care for low speeds so I prefer the Sabvoton since I almost never ride under 20km/h.

I guess i'm more of a kick at the start guy, plus i have a lot of start and stop to do everyday, so i'll probably go with the Kelly, my motor is rated for 40Amps, i don't think i can use the difference between the two controllers, can i?

Kelly are usually a bit more reliable, from what people say. I've heard that recent sabvotons are less reliable than they used to be. Can't say if that's true, what I know is that I didn't have any issue with either of those brands. It'as always a gamble...
Kelly ones are a bit harder to set up and install though, I prefer the sabvoton interface which is clearer and the automatic angle detection feature is quite nice

Kelly also lists auto angle detection as a feature in their controllers, is it not the same with the sabvotons?


Your answers has been very enlightening, thank you very much for taking the time to share this wealth of information, i am grateful to you.

 

[Dui ni shuo de dui]

I guess i'm more of a kick at the start guy, plus i have a lot of start and stop to do everyday, so i'll probably go with the Kelly, my motor is rated for 40Amps, i don't think i can use the difference between the two controllers, can i?

Don't bother with the motor rating, the Niu is a popular scooter here in China so I know you can fit that power in there, no problem.
Just so you know, it is not really a Bosch motor but actually a QS motor with a Bosch stamp/logo, some kind of OEM thing because I guess Bosch sounds more serious than QS, so they have a partnership (at least that's the urban legend we all hear here, which I believe is true because they look a whole lot similar).
QS does quite reliable and powerful motors though, so I'm fairly certain it could take 150A battery and 350A phase no problem.
Have a look at my scooter build in my signature, it uses a QS 2000W motor and a 150A sabvoton controller with 350A phase, which is pretty much the kind of power you are going for.

Kelly also lists auto angle detection as a feature in their controllers, is it not the same with the sabvotons?

I'm not sure, it's been a while I havent' used a Kelly. But they are for sure harder to install and get working. But that's not really a big deal, it's not like you will install those things everyday, it will just be a huge pain in the ass for a few hours/days maximum until you get it working fine and won't have to deal with that again

Your answers has been very enlightening, thank you very much for taking the time to share this wealth of information, i am grateful to you.

Glad I can help, thanks :wink:

 

[Molten-Core]

Don't bother with the motor rating, the Niu is a popular scooter here in China so I know you can fit that power in there, no problem.
Just so you know, it is not really a Bosch motor but actually a QS motor with a Bosch stamp/logo, some kind of OEM thing because I guess Bosch sounds more serious than QS, so they have a partnership (at least that's the urban legend we all hear here, which I believe is true because they look a whole lot similar).
QS does quite reliable and powerful motors though, so I'm fairly certain it could take 150A battery and 350A phase no problem.
Have a look at my scooter build in my signature, it uses a QS 2000W motor and a 150A sabvoton controller with 350A phase, which is pretty much the kind of power you are going for.

It seems you're right, i looked it up on the tube and here are two videos that although doesn't state that they are the same show that the internals are very very similar, way too similar to be a coincidence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2ONwtUexvw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeL0FQom1CE

I'm not sure, it's been a while I havent' used a Kelly. But they are for sure harder to install and get working. But that's not really a big deal, it's not like you will install those things everyday, it will just be a huge pain in the ass for a few hours/days maximum until you get it working fine and won't have to deal with that again

well, i'm looking forward to being at that level of the refitting

thank you again for your response, i'm learning stuff!

 

[John in CR]

Measure the phase-to-phase resistance of the motor. It's simple to measure and without it, current limits are only a guess that could be way off. That's because almost any model of motor is would with different Kv's available, and that drastically affects current requirements and current handling.