Schwalbe Marathon Plus 47-406 slippery when wet

[davevelo]

Am wondering if anyone else has used this tire on the rear of a velomobile or recumbent? It's inflated to 5 bar which I understand is the max pressure.

So far, I've only experienced slippage on damp roads due to fog. Haven't tested in the rain yet. If I accelerate abruptly, the tire will lose traction. Or taking a turn will break it's grip and I'll swing out.

At this point, I can't recommend this tire.

 

[Chalo]

I'm sure it has a lot more to do with the fact that you're powering the most lightly loaded wheel than with anything about the tire itself.

I've used 700x32 Marathon Pluses on my rain bike (a Cannondale touring bike) for years now, and I've never had any misgivings about them. Larger diameter wheels have inherently better traction, but I'm sure there's nothing too different about their construction or tread compound.

See if you can get a measurement of the weight distribution among your wheels, and lower the pressure in the rear tire if it carries less weight than the others.

 

[davevelo]

I'm sure it has a lot more to do with the fact that you're powering the most lightly loaded wheel than with anything about the tire itself.

I've used 700x32 Marathon Pluses on my rain bike (a Cannondale touring bike) for years now, and I've never had any misgivings about them. Larger diameter wheels have inherently better traction, but I'm sure there's nothing too different about their construction or tread compound.

See if you can get a measurement of the weight distribution among your wheels, and lower the pressure in the rear tire if it carries less weight than the others.

Don't think it carries less weight, probably more. The tire is mounted on an Exal heavy duty 36 spoke rim with a Crystalite HS3540 hub. The whole wheel weighs in at around 8.5kg. I'm sitting about 80cm away with 12kg worth of batteries at my side. Whether climbing or descending, I still slip. If it isn't the tire, it's got to be the road. I've ridden on heavily travelled roads and quiet roads... no difference.

 

[sendler2112]

You will have to experiment with tire pressure to see how low you can go without pinching to get more traction. And maybe use a DIY tubeless system with sealant.

 

[davevelo]

You will have to experiment with tire pressure to see how low you can go without pinching to get more traction. And maybe use a DIY tubeless system with sealant.

Can't risk possible pinching. Roads are very bad and it's a bitch removing the wheel.

 

[sendler2112]

Go DIY tubeless and you will never have another flat.

 

[Chalo]

Go DIY tubeless and you will never have another flat.

Whether or not that's true, it would result in him having to fool around with his tires a whole lot more than if he were getting flats regularly. I can't even recount the number of times I've watched one of my coworkers-- a guy who can change a tire and tube in a couple of minutes-- monkey with his tubeless setup and drip goo on the floor for half an hour or more. (Then sometimes come back a little later because the bead is still leaking.)

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Tubeless bicycle tires are a hobby. We already have a hobby.

 

[sendler2112]

Have you ever used a DIY tubeless system where the liner tube is pinched between between the tube and the hook bead and then the extra trimmed off? Makes a normal tire and wheel tubless with sealant. Add fresh sealant once per year. Run almost any pressure you want and never get a flat. I don't know any mountain bike racers still running a tube.

 

[Chalo]

I've seen guys fooling around with "ghetto tubeless" too. Because I've been a frequent firsthand witness to what living with tubeless bicycle tires is like, I don't have to do it myself. For this I am grateful.

Even if you could come up with a tire/rim/liner combination that was as easy to mount and dismount as a normal tire and tube (ha!), using tubeless means living with sealant. Sealant curdles and clumps up. Sealant needs replacing a lot more often than I get punctures, and I ride everywhere I go. And sealant is a bothersome mess whenever you have to deal with it, which is basically anytime you do anything with your tubeless tire.

Realistically, if I used tubeless tires, I'd have to service my own tires approximately ten times as often as I do, taking a lot more time to do so, and I'd have to wash them out all the time. (I've never had to clean out the inside of my own tire so far.). In return for this hassle, I'd get... nothing. Really.

Guys talk about how they can run lower pressures with tubeless, but my tire pressures are predicated on what keeps the rim from bumping on the ground. If I could eliminate pinch flats, I still wouldn't want to bash up my wheels, so that changes nothing. I suspect it's bullshit for other riders too, that they could use identical pressures with tubes if they only tried it.

Likewise, the legend of tubeless tires' flat prevention does not matter if you end up doing more tire changes and messier service more often. What's the point?

It's just another expression of motor fetishism with bicycles. All that stuff has been dumb so far, and whatever guys misapply to bikes from motor vehicles in the future is also going to be dumb.

 

[davevelo]

I've seen guys fooling around with "ghetto tubeless" too. Because I've been a frequent firsthand witness to what living with tubeless bicycle tires is like, I don't have to do it myself. For this I am grateful.

Even if you could come up with a tire/rim/liner combination that was as easy to mount and dismount as a normal tire and tube (ha!), using tubeless means living with sealant. Sealant curdles and clumps up. Sealant needs replacing a lot more often than I get punctures, and I ride everywhere I go. And sealant is a bothersome mess whenever you have to deal with it, which is basically anytime you do anything with your tubeless tire.

Realistically, if I used tubeless tires, I'd have to service my own tires approximately ten times as often as I do, taking a lot more time to do so, and I'd have to wash them out all the time. (I've never had to clean out the inside of my own tire so far.). In return for this hassle, I'd get... nothing. Really.

Guys talk about how they can run lower pressures with tubeless, but my tire pressures are predicated on what keeps the rim from bumping on the ground. If I could eliminate pinch flats, I still wouldn't want to bash up my wheels, so that changes nothing. I suspect it's bullshit for other riders too, that they could use identical pressures with tubes if they only tried it.

Likewise, the legend of tubeless tires' flat prevention does not matter if you end up doing more tire changes and messier service more often. What's the point?

It's just another expression of motor fetishism with bicycles. All that stuff has been dumb so far, and whatever guys misapply to bikes from motor vehicles in the future is also going to be dumb.

Thanks Chalo, I don't buy into the DIY tubeless option either. Maybe if I were riding Dutch roads and not these Italian minefields that pass for roads, I might give it a try. Oh, and kudos to Justin for all his help and support. He's the best around!

 

[2old]

FWIT, I have a Marathon on my rear hub bike in order to limit the incidence of flats as much as possible. There are a lot of factors that could influence this sensation, but it seems to me as though the tires don't adhere to pavement as well as other road or off road ones. I don't lean that bike much since the limits of traction don't interest me.

 

[davevelo]

FWIT, I have a Marathon on my rear hub bike in order to limit the incidence of flats as much as possible. There are a lot of actors that could influence this sensation, but it seems to me as though the tires don't adhere to pavement as well as other road or off road ones. I don't lean that bike much since the limits of traction don't interest me.

You are correct in your assumption. I use this tire on the rear of my Velo. This tire doesn't like being wet and will lose grip easily, especially if too much torque is applied.

 

[davevelo]

I'm sure it has a lot more to do with the fact that you're powering the most lightly loaded wheel than with anything about the tire itself.

I've used 700x32 Marathon Pluses on my rain bike (a Cannondale touring bike) for years now, and I've never had any misgivings about them. Larger diameter wheels have inherently better traction, but I'm sure there's nothing too different about their construction or tread compound.

See if you can get a measurement of the weight distribution among your wheels, and lower the pressure in the rear tire if it carries less weight than the others.

This tire is mounted on a 406 rim. We're probably talking about apples and oranges when comparing circumference. Anyway, lowering the pressure did absolutely no good at all. It's not lightly loaded since I'm sitting about 16" away from the wheel not to mention it's total weight being around 16 pounds.

 

[Chalo]

It doesn't matter how close you're sitting to the rear wheel if your center of mass is much closer to the front axles than it is to the back. The weight split will still be biased to the front wheels in such a case. And on top of that, the dynamic weight distribution will shift forward under braking or any other negative acceleration.

If you use a bathroom scale and two blocks the height of your bathroom scale, you can find out your bike's static weight distribution rather than guessing at it.

Until recently, my e-bike was a pusher trailer made from a kid's tagalong bike, with a 500W hub motor and battery aboard. The thing probably weighed 40 pounds, most of which was carried on its wheel. I even designed the the trailer to jam itself into the ground under power by pushing up underneath my saddle. Despite all this, it skittered around whenever I applied power too zealously or when the trailer was even slightly out of line with the bike.