Serengeti Panther: is COTS Battery an Option?

[john61ct]

Try to use the Anderson for everything, testing the BMS HVC and LVC.

If it works, stick with that.

 

[KDKD]

If it's possible, it would be safer to use them separately, if they are already separate ports.

Ok, so obviously I need to have two plugs here since I do not want to set my derriere on fire . Let me work on that and report back.

BTW, I don't know what you do for a living but if you aren't already an engineer, you would make a GREAT one!

Try to use the Anderson for everything, testing the BMS HVC and LVC.

I'm on it!

Thank you both!

 

[KDKD]

I can not understand how there is no such thing as an Anderson to IEC C14 converter. Do my google and Amazon searches deceive me?? How could something so simple not already exist?

 

[amberwolf]

Possible guess: Probably because the Andersons are so expensive compared to the IEC, and so much better for the DC application they're intended for, that there aren't enough people that need one (instead, they just replace the one with the other).

There is this
https://www.amazon.com/SAF-D-Grid-T-Latch-Plug-IEC-14AWG/dp/B08ND234PL
but it is not for the SB50 type of Anderson.

You can make one easily enough by splicing together half of a IEC extension cable and an SB50 connector already wired up. This article
https://www.electricbike.com/connectors-halls-throttle-motor/
and this post
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86600&p=1463159&hilit=solder%2A+phase%2A+stromer#p1463762
show some ways to splice heavier gauge wires together, that work pretty well.

BTW, I don't know what you do for a living but if you aren't already an engineer, you would make a GREAT one!

I pick and pack and ship internet orders.

Everything else I do is a hobby (haven't found people to pay me a living for anything else I'd want to do, especially my music).

I have a wierd brain that doesn't work like most people's, so I don't fit well with them; makes it tough to get "in" anywhere (once I *am* in, I stay until the place itself goes away for whatever reason, while everyone else changes around me).

I also don't operate well in realtime; I do best "offline" where I can think out my disorderly way and edit myself together. (everything I do well is done this way).

 

[KDKD]

Amberwolf,

For what it's worth, my conversations with you have been virtually indistinguishable from those of my coworkers who are electrical engineers (I'm an engineer but not a EE). I think you would make a highly, highly skilled EE, and the right place would not mind that you prefer to be squirreled away solving problems on your own time. It's not unheard of. I too edit every single thing I write a hundred times until I figure out what I'm trying to say...

Tara

 

[john61ct]

C14 designates AC grid power.

Foolishly unsafe to use for DC.

And I'm sure illegal to do so in sensibly regulated jurisdictions

 

[amberwolf]

I think you would make a highly, highly skilled EE, and the right place would not mind that you prefer to be squirreled away solving problems on your own time.

Except I just can't do the math. My brain doesn't wrap around math right. If there is a formula I can plonk the numbers into on a "calculator page", and I have all those numbers already available, I can do that (but so can anyone else). If I have to derive the numbers beyond basic addition, it all gets really hard, or actively impossible. Subtraction...not so bad, multiplication I just ahve to add all the things togehter, but division...forget it. Best I can do is guess what might add up to some part of the divided thing and then be left with some fraction I can't do anything with at the end. :/

I understand the *concept* of a lot of math...but I can't actually do anything with most of it, and I can't do the rearranging of formulas to put the variable I *don't* have on the other side of the = sign. Pretty well keeps me out of most things I might otherwise be ok at.

Programming is like that, too (and other language things). I understand many of the concepts...but applying them is very difficult, often not possible. I just get lost and sit there staring at it, unable to continue past some "obvious" "simple" thing that doesn't work the way it *ought* to work, if it were properly designed.

I mean, I can see how something *should* work, but things in the world are almost never actually made or done that way, and it's beyond my powers to change them.

 

[KDKD]

FWIW neither I nor any of the coworkers I have asked have ever had to take an integral or derivative in the course of our regular work. But it would have been impossible to get through engineering school without them (sadly).

 

[KDKD]

Update and questions ...

I have soldered the Anderson plug and the charger plug onto the battery wiring, as instructed by BtrPower:

Small black + red wires --> charging (C14)
Thick black + red wires --> power (Anderson)

I have two questions:

1) The original battery had a yellow wire running from the BMS (which I assumed was ground but may be something else). The new battery does not have a third wire. Do I just ignore it? See pictures of original battery and original plug (which I do not intend to use as I have replaced with ports described above).



2) I need to replace the scooter's original C13 with Anderson. I think I need to cut the wire at the connector and solder the red/black to a new Anderson connector. I assume once I cut the wire and remove some of the insulation there will be three wires in there ... red/black/maybe a yellow?



If you all tell me the whole thing is shot because of the yellow wire there may be tears ... but that shouldn't stop you from telling it like it is

3) In hindsight ... unless someone has glorious news about that yellow wire ... I *should* have tried putting the wires back together (undo what the thief did) and charged whatever is left of the old battery just to prove that it runs on existing wiring, and THEN dealt with a new battery. *Dummy me.* I may have to undo what I did today. HOWEVER, since I moved twice, I can't find the old charger. Can I use the new charger to charge the old battery? I'm guessing the answer is no, and I need to go buy one. Sigh.

Many thanks!

 

[KDKD]

-Comment deleted and incorporated into previous post-

 

[Elektrosherpa]

LiFePO4
48V 20Ah fits 350W-1500W motor
Max continuous 50A
Max peak 100A
Fits in the space
Even comes with a C13 as an option! (I think I will have to solder but I can do that.)

Take care, ALL C13 plugs + sockets I have seen until now are limited to 10 A.
Chinese battery manufacturers often seem to ignore this fact-
the result looks like that:


If you want to know more disgusting details about chinese "quality", have a look at my build thread...

 

[KDKD]

Thanks for looking out Elektrosherpa, that does indeed look scary. I have already fitted the new battery with an Anderson plug as recommended here. The charger is C13/14 but I think it only charges at 2-4A. My previous comment has the latest update and three new questions.

 

[amberwolf]

1) The original battery had a yellow wire running from the BMS (which I assumed was ground but may be something else). The new battery does not have a third wire. Do I just ignore it?

Without knowing what it was, I couldn't say. It is unlikely to be communications (which might prevent usage of the system without the original BMS), but it could be either controller precharge or a keyswitch wire or similar. Either of those you can deal with by adding your own new wire if necessary (to where, we'd need to determine based on where that connects to in your system, which you'd need to trace).

2) I need to replace the scooter's original C13 with Anderson. I think I need to cut the wire at the connector and solder the red/black to a new Anderson connector. I assume once I cut the wire and remove some of the insulation there will be three wires in there ... red/black/maybe a yellow?

If that's a typical misused AC power cable like most of these things, it will probably have a brown, a blue, and a green/yellow-stripe wire. You'll need to use a multimeter on 200ohms, continuity, or diode-test to verify which wire goes to which pin on the cable, because they could easily have it miswired from the standard.

Can I use the new charger to charge the old battery?

As long as they are the same final voltage (or the new one is a bit lower than the old), and the charger current isn't higher than the old one, it should be perfectly safe to use as long as the connection is correctly wired.

The only potential danger is if the old battery is already damaged in a way that could damage the new charger (then you *would* need a new charger).