SOSY Battery Store

[marvin78]

Just a heads up, if something sounds to good to be true, it most likely is.

https://nl.aliexpress.com/store/1102634387?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_newArrival.pcShopHead_2004666666404.0

Bought a 20Ah 48v battery for a little under 200 euro's, ( listed higher but I had a discount ). Now, I already expected it to be lower capacity, but bear with me: First time I go and charge the thing, the charge port breaks! So I have to open the enclosure to fish that out and try and glue it back. I contact the seller, they don't do anything. I ask them: btw, I notice I don't have more range as with my 7.5Ah battery, what cells are you using? Their response: Just charge it fully.

I even tell them: when I had to glue your broken charge port, I noticed it was a 13s3p and not a 4p as I expected. So, since 18650 I think goes to 3500mAh it couldn't be 20Ah.. they keep ignoring me.

I couldn't take it anymore, even if I don't get anything back I just had to know...

3x2.55 is NOT 20, I think it's 7.65? That's a little more as 1/3rd of what was advertised!

It's also not using any temperature protection I noticed, which I confirmed with the bms -> Jiabaida Zp13s006 13s 48v 10a 15a 20a Smart Bms For Lithium Ion 18650 Battery Pack With Ntc For Electric Bicycle - Buy 13s 48v 15a 20a Bms Zp13s006,Li-ion 13s 48v 15a 20a,Jbd Bms 13s 48v Battery Pack Product on Alibaba.com

I expected that it was 'to good to be true'. It doesn't matter how this will get resolved ( with ali, or the 'store' itself ), but I now wouldn't feel comfortable using this thing ( or at least keeping it / charging it inside my house ).

 

[marvin78]

I saw a reply which since has been removed again? Not sure why, but as to the question: it's in dispute still, 'seller' aka scammer wants me to pay for shipping it back to him so he can use it to scam someone else. I pointed out that I will gladly send it back if seller pays for it since there is no way I'm going to be losing more money to this scam, and pointed out that I already have enough for a police report. Not that something would be done with it, it won't get me my money back but it will all add up into creating pressure on legislators to come up with better consumer protection laws.

I have a video where I disassemble their high quality battery but I haven't published it yet, only shared with platform and 'seller'.

I'm pretty sure, without opening the battery bought from the same place I bought my motor to verify the issues I been having were not the motor / controller, to have a nice honeycomb cell holder, thick enough nickel strips and a better bms as the one on this pearl.

Though I'm still not sure how a battery can cause my motor to loose assistance, but not all power since the display stays on, without throwing up an error code... but something definitely was wrong since I had to disconnect my battery for a few seconds and everything would be fine again. Battery bms should not be able to limit current, if something is wrong it should shut off completely? And controller should have thrown up some kind of error code to explain there was a problem with the battery / current or something. So it's still really confusing tbh.

But ahh well, controller and motor seem fine with a proper battery, and my house hasn't burned down.

 

[amberwolf]

Though I'm still not sure how a battery can cause my motor to loose assistance, but not all power since the display stays on, without throwing up an error code... but something definitely was wrong since I had to disconnect my battery for a few seconds and everything would be fine again. Battery bms should not be able to limit current, if something is wrong it should shut off completely? And controller should have thrown up some kind of error code to explain there was a problem with the battery / current or something. So it's still really confusing tbh.

Depends on the system.

Some systems have "soft" LVCs, so they just lower the assist power when the voltage drops there, and past some point just cut off assist entirely.

Some systems ahve hard LVCs, so they stop assisting at all once it drops that far. Some of *those* may not allow assist again until the system is reset (power cycled, etc), while most don't do that (once voltage rises they assist normally again, so you can get hiccups when right at the edge).

Most of the systems don't give you any errors about voltage stuff-they may have a battery meter to show you the level, but it's not an error (as far as it's concerned) that it's low, it's just low.

 

[marvin78]

Lvc would only happen if those cells are absolute crap. 3p should still be able to give 18A, but perhaps not the peaks? And it would happen with a full pack as well ( maybe less often though ).

So, pack couldn't handle the power draw, voltage sag triggers lvc? But hard lvc should just cut power completely I thought, and this felt like it was current limited.

As I said, I am still not sure why I see this behavior.

 

[amberwolf]

Lvc would only happen if those cells are absolute crap. 3p should still be able to give 18A, but perhaps not the peaks? And it would happen with a full pack as well ( maybe less often though ).

So, pack couldn't handle the power draw, voltage sag triggers lvc? But hard lvc should just cut power completely I thought, and this felt like it was current limited.

Controller LVC can operate in multiple ways, including limiting current rather than shutdown (up to whatever hard shutdown limit it has). How it will actually behave depends on the specific hardware and firmware (and settings, if any) of that controller.

BMS LVC can only shutdown, as it doesn't have the electronics to do anything else.

 

[marvin78]

I assumed it was a controller LVC but I expected the controller to display an error message if that happens. I mean, the controller triggers something, so it's aware of it, so why doesn't it notify me?

I even looked up error codes, and tsdz2 does how a 'low voltage detected' err-08.

 

[amberwolf]

I don't know all oft he systems out there by far , so there are probably some that do what the tsdz2 does, but none of the few controllers I've got (or worked with others on) with displays ever have any errors for LVC. They just show empty batery icon, sometimes blinking the frame of the icon, and stop assisting.

for the ones I've actually got here (old lishui, with kingmeter displays) they restart assist as soon as the battery voltage recovers above the controller lvc, but drop off again if it drops below that.

've seen postts about some systems have an erorr for battery well below lvc when it's plugge dinto the controller beause the controller can't operate that way so it is probalby trying to alert the user more specifically than just a low battery icon...like hooking up a 36v battery to a 48v controller...except when the 36v is fully charged, when it *might* be high enough to be above the 48v lvc, it could neer operate the controller so the controller sees that and says "hey!" .

whether your s has any error code for the specific situation you saw i don't know.

 

[marvin78]

Just got another offered solution, the one I said is the minimum I should get: refund + seller can pay for this crap to be send back.

I'm 'happy' with that. Or no, not really, The next guy will just order there again, and now I feel partially responsible for their stupidity ( yes, this 200% applies to myself as well, don't worry ).

Also, it seems only reason Ali deems it suitable for 'seller responsibility' is because of 'item not matching description'. I would LOVE for that to just read 'item was a scam'. Not matching description can mean so many things. This thing does not only not meet specifications it was sold with, it in no way looked like a ebike cell pack I seen in any other battery. No honeycomb, just glued together cells. And to think I planned on using it on a bike I expect to have some accidents with along the way ( emtb ). I'm not saying the thing is a firehazard... since I don't build batteries and haven't seen that many... but it is the worst I seen.

But at least I'll get my money back and it won't cost me for the return, so that's good.

Ali get's an C, it a> went reasonable quick once I opened the dispute. b> got a reasonable solution ( in which I am not losing money ). If they want an B they need to act faster, and if they want an A they need to do something about these sellers except forcing them to take returns ( instead of getting away with: just charge it fully, have a nice day Chen ).

I could say what I would want to happen with 'sellers' like this, but I'm afraid it would break multiple forum rules about physical harm.

 

[marvin78]

Wait, Ali wants another video. They say they can't count individual cells in my other video, so they can't vet my claim...

Someone explain them that you can't fit a 13s8p pack into that case.. which is what you'd need to get 20Ah ( 20.4Ah ) from 2.55Ah cells.

I have no issues making another video, where I'll rip the entire thing apart layer by layer, but this time it will get posted here directly asking all you experienced battery builders how much luck I had my house didn't burn down ( yet ). Was trying to not escalate with posting the previous video completely ( it's also almost 10 minutes of me just opening the damn thing and trying to peel enough insulation off to find some marking on the batteries ( which 'accidentally ) seem to be oriented in such a way you almost can't find usable markings.

 

[marvin78]

Waiting on a return label from the 'seller'. So sadly no video of me tearing their 'quality pack' to pieces... instead it goes back to the scammer and most likely will be used to scam someone else.

I'll post the other video showcasing me opening their case and looking at their 'real 20Ah' capacity once I the dispute is closed and I have my money back.

 

[marvin78]

I totally forgot to update this. While Ali seemed to be ok with having me to send it back and eat costs for getting scammed, Klarna seemed to object.

No return needed, full refund. Stuck with the thing here, I wanted to upload the video where I take it apart but I'd need to edit it for length and file size as my YouTube account doesn't allow longer videos's of file sizes over 2GB.

Another reason why I'd always opt to use a billing platform which will stick up for you in need, especially on marketplaces like Ali.

Once I get around editing / compressing the video, I'll upload the video and some questions as to: what am I going to do with this 'thing'?

 

[leffex]

If you use a billing option like a credit card the way to get money back is easier.

The major reason things went to your side was that the item was wrong or almost could be identified as a scam in a sense as the description was misleading big time. The price however usually fits what you buy.

If you buy locally you can always ask if they know what's in their batteries or if they buy locally from an expert battery company or repairman. In NL there's even some big business doing this like nkon.

 

[marvin78]

Yeah when I pressed buy I knew all the red lights were going off, alarms were bleeping and all that.

New 'store', reviews were pretty telling ( I'm not the only one complaining about mislabeled capacity ratings ). And the price was 'to good to be true'.

And when the first answer when I contacted support about how it's strange their '20Ah' battery was giving me about the same range of my stock 7.5Ah battery... maybe a bit more since it 48v vs 36v and I'm under the impression that just like with my electric trolling motors, the higher voltage one's are more efficient. But certainly not '20Ah vs 7.5Ah more'.. and their reply: just charge it fully I mean I tried that, but somehow 2.5Ah cells won't take more as ... 2.5Ah... or well I guess they can but then they blow up or burst into flames.

I'd call it a lesson learned the hard way. I'm glad Klarna handled the refund they way they did.

Not gotten around to messing with my video, not even that I can't spare the time but I been a bit down and out about things and that zaps any and all energy straight out of me.

Been storing the thing on my balcony. The soldering ect didn't look bad to me, but I just don't trust a manufacturer which also mislabels their capacity. Pretty sure consumer safety wasn't on their list of things to care about.

 

[leffex]

Yea, too many projects to head into makes the timr go away. Rather I focus to finish each one and then cut ways short if something takes to long. It can also go in the future projects bin which is way in the future.

I got balls.. No, joking but I do juggle around a lot of tasks and can sometime think how slow everyone around me is regarding this matter but in the end. What you do, or at least me, the more I do the faster and better I become like a straight line in a graph showing experience / time.

All life problems sometimes comes at the same time. It has happened to me but its in the past, still some things to handle but goikg forward.

I would suggest to open the battery if you want to learn about it and also maybe watch some battery channels where they open up batteries and solve common errors. Most are easy fixes but a badly build battery from the start is a bad omen and very time consuming to fix after. The former issues including fake information about battery and support like the person not knowing what they are selling gives you much information.

That concludes it is good to buy from a reputable seller and paying some more which in the end gives you life advantage of not needing to fix anything.

This can be implememted in any life task so as to become faster and making better jusgment choices not needing to check all sellers in the whole world before deciding.

Time matters

I wish you the best and I believe you will manage what ever come at you Marvin

 

[marvin78]

I have opened it... you missed the pictures above?

I googled the bms, found the exact part number. Didn't instill a lot of trust.. but the soldering didn't look terrible.. then again, I haven't really looked at 'good' packs either so I'm not in a good position to judge. That's why I still plan on asking for help here.

Maybe the cells could be salvaged for some other purpose, maybe the BMS isn't actually as bad as it seems to me ( no temp protection doesn't instill trust for a 'quality BMS' ). Just not sure.

The former issues including fake information about battery and support like the person not knowing what they are selling gives you much information.

.....they damn well knew what they 'were selling'.

This was 100% a case of 'to good to be true' and 'you get what you pay for', which I semi anticipated which is why I did not hesitate to open it up after not getting the range I should have ( especially after they told me: ow just charge it fully ( aka must be 'user error'... when I know charging it fully wasn't the issue ).

Yea, too many projects to head into makes the timr go away. Rather I focus to finish each one and then cut ways short if something takes to long. It can also go in the future projects bin which is way in the future.

I'll be open, my projects currently focus on: not ending up in the icu again due to overdose medication, trying to restore contact with my kids and finally getting my ptsd treatment which I been ineligible for for the past decade due to 'not stable enough environment' due to the decade long ( legal ) battles with my ex about custody/the house and what not.

All the rest, yes I have projects but none really get finalized lately, I keep at them because it takes my mind of the other stuff. Maybe that's also why they never get done ( or most of them ), I'm a bit afraid what would happen if I do, what will I do then? I'm not sure if I got the 'balls' to finish and pick up another project, it's more likely if I 'finish' everything I'll decide since those are finished and I am not seeing my kids atm, I got no reason to keep on going. They have been the only reason I kept trying, and there are many times I'm ready to just let everything go and end it right there and then.

I know it's not a good way to deal with it, but it was my only option really. Tomorrow I got my second extended intake, trying to get the proper therapy again. But I'm not that hopeful, again they didn't seem to think I was stable enough to get through the therapy sessions which will be hard I know. I've had EMDR before, it (.. 'I' ) was a mess afterwards. Complex ptsd is very hard to treat, being on the spectrum also makes it more challenging. I decided, when I applied again, that even if I don't have contact with my kids now, I should do everything in my power to be there when they change their mind, and not give up. And I really do feel that way, but I'm not sure if 'everything within my power' will be enough.

.. look at me. getting all personal and emotional, just because you bring up 'projects' and how you handle them.

 

[leffex]

Dude I can understand. At least a little bit. As you are saying it is very complex and being as you are. You seem to understand yourself to some degree.

Sometimes I believe the easiest answers are the best or closest to the best.

Metacognitive theraphy is something I think will work on most people and that I didn't even know existed before a few months ago. Why am I so confused. Because I have followed it or at least it is very simple almost. You accept your situation and stop thinking too much. That takes away anxienty and makes you go forward one step.

That's why acceptance is another big hidden gem that will make you go forward

 

[marvin78]

You're right, EMDR is more suited for singular trauma's, and it's likely they will now offer me some kind of cognitive behavioral therapy aimed at better handling of symptoms instead of trying to remove the initial response like what they try with emdr.

Hoping I will be strong enough to get through it Thanks for the support and good advice, it might sounds simple but you're perhaps more right then you yourself even realize.