Specialized Epic Expert FS Frame for HD1000

[waynebergman]

I think if the HD1000 was reduced by 30% more would be about the right amount for more effective pedalling input and still give decent top speeds. The point I am trying to make Hillhater is why have a motor with such little reduction so that when you can actually catch up to it with human effort your effort does no real good at all because the motor is being lugged so bad for you to accomplish the pedal input. We would be better off forgetting the pedal input totally and just spin up the motor in its efficient zone if going for range and efficiency alone. I pedal and lug the motor from time to time because it feels good and I want the exercise but I am aware of what it happening and I forgo range and efficiency for some exercise .

So long story short, I feel anyways ----- The motor should be in its efficient zone first and foremost WHILE STILL BEING ABLE TO ADD PEDAL INPUT then after you have accomplished this you then get your bike gears happening to give you the range you need or will settle for.Also I should say I am no engineer only a frustrated consumer.

 

[fechter]

But that implies you would also halve the maximum speed possible ?
Assuming a 10-11-12 T rear speocket is currently used, there would be few options to regain that top speed.

That's true. A larger chain ring would be the only way, but that would load the motor more. I run a 30t chain ring and in my top 3 gears I get the same top speed as the wind resistance equals the motor power in those gears. I could use a little more reduction and not lose any top speed.

 

[waynebergman]

Thanks so much for the help and idea so far guys. I am doubtful there is going to be an HD 1000 solution out there regarding a frame to tuck things into. The link here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=94960 as mentioned earlier in the thread, I think is where I will continue my research for my next bike. Photo attached shows the style of the cool frames that may be available and worth kitting up for the Bafang M600. I have not been able to source out any real amperage specs on the M600 but if I can get 1000 watts out of this motor and also a throttle option I will abandon the HD 1000 platform and source out a nice frame for the M600.

Maybe keep my fingers crossed for Luna putting together a complete bike with the M600 and 27.5 wheels c/w plus sized tires and also a nice upslope to the motor mount for trail clearance. Its getting so close now I feel for getting all of the above built into a bike for around $4,000 which could be a real milestone. If nothing comes available soon I can wait. My hardtail fatty is still going strong and is an awesome little bike, its not perfect but my main reason for wanting something different is my aging body wants back into a full suspension bike so I will continue to ride the fat bike until I can find a decent $4000.00 full suspension replacement. Thanks again for the help to date......wayne

 

[Hillhater]

personally, i am yet to be convinced of the benefits of going with a Carbon frame for Ebikes.
Sure they hold bragging rights at the ride stops and on forums, but you definitely pay for that up front.
i do not think there is a significant weight or strength advantage over some of the better Alu frames, but you know any damage is going to be either expensive, or impossible to repair.
A kilo here or there of frame weight is irrelevant when you consider battery and/or rider weight variations.
however i have become a fan of low weight set ups for trail/off road riding, where low a mass bike is much easier to maneuver and control in tricky steep sections.
But the best solution to that is to use a backpack battery...which also opens up lots of options for battery type size , shape, capacity, and supplier.

 

[waynebergman]

Yes Hillhater good points on the carbon fiber. I would much prefer steel or aluminum myself but if when its time for me to buy and the carbon is the only option I would buy it, but not a big fan of that material for bike frames either. I will hope for an aluminum option with modern day mountain bike specs. Steel would be even better but I doubt an option.

 

[Drop Dead Fred]

Thanks so much for the help and idea so far guys. I am doubtful there is going to be an HD 1000 solution out there regarding a frame to tuck things into. The link here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=94960 as mentioned earlier in the thread, I think is where I will continue my research for my next bike. Photo attached shows the style of the cool frames that may be available and worth kitting up Screen Shot 2018-07-30 at 4.36.12 PM.jpg for the Bafang M600. I have not been able to source out any real amperage specs on the M600 but if I can get 1000 watts out of this motor and also a throttle option I will abandon the HD 1000 platform and source out a nice frame for the M600.

Maybe keep my fingers crossed for Luna putting together a complete bike with the M600 and 27.5 wheels c/w plus sized tires and also a nice upslope to the motor mount for trail clearance. Its getting so close now I feel for getting all of the above built into a bike for around $4,000 which could be a real milestone. If nothing comes available soon I can wait. My hardtail fatty is still going strong and is an awesome little bike, its not perfect but my main reason for wanting something different is my aging body wants back into a full suspension bike so I will continue to ride the fat bike until I can find a decent $4000.00 full suspension replacement. Thanks again for the help to date......wayne

Actually just ordered this frame from Pro-Formance with Frame, Axle, M600 motor and 14.4Ah battery, with shipping was about $2k.

 

[waynebergman]

HI Drop Dead Fred, thanks for posting.Any chance of a web site link to the frame and motor you have ordered. ......wayne

 

[Drop Dead Fred]

HI Drop Dead Fred, thanks for posting.Any chance of a web site link to the frame and motor you have ordered. ......wayne

Sure thing,

http://www.pro-mance.com/product-390-80235.html

Steven is pretty easy to deal with. I also used PayPal (was extra $90), so I could have some sort of control of the money.

Supposed to have a Sep 12th act date as they build to order. (and I'm sure someone else is actually doing the building.)

 

[Drop Dead Fred]

Here is what I got from them...

 

[Dave M]

hey Wayne I have the pretty much the same criteria as you and just got a banshee bike great FS that handles 27.5 plus with a straight down tube threaded BB ready for install. but I will be putting battery in back pack for long rides, and under seat for short rides so it might not be what you want after all

https://www.jensonusa.com/Banshee-Prime-SLX-Spec-A-Jenson-Bike

 

[waynebergman]

HI Dave
Hey that Banshee is a nice looking bike. It will be fun for sure with the HD1000 but there will not be enough ground clearance for riding the steeps. Any obstacle of size or step down of size encountered on a steep decent will catch the hanging motor with that frame but that does not mean it wont be an awesome fun bike. Just not a good mix for the HD1000 and riding steeper trails in my opinion. For myself I have decided to follow up on the M600 platform, settling for lower power but awesome range and what appears to be a trail worth full suspension o9 frame from Dengfu link to info here https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=94960. I may pull the switch in the next week or so depending on answers to some of my questions from China.

 

[Dave M]

Nice keep us posted that would be a very nice build

 

[Drop Dead Fred]

Yes Hillhater good points on the carbon fiber. I would much prefer steel or aluminum myself but if when its time for me to buy and the carbon is the only option I would buy it, but not a big fan of that material for bike frames either. I will hope for an aluminum option with modern day mountain bike specs. Steel would be even better but I doubt an option.

Wayne,

Not sure if you are still following or interested but I now have a manufacturer building an Aluminum frame design with hidden battery compartment. I only have drawings as the prototypes are being built as we speak and will have more info soon.

What I have is: weight 3.8k (8.4lbs), yes a little heavy but has the hidden battery compartment and that will cause a bit more weight. Sizes available, small 408mm (16"), medium 438 (17.5"), large 468 (18.5").

While the frame sizes may seem a bit small I have chatted with them and the reach is a bit longer to adjust for the battery. Also when I spec'd them against others they seem to be about right for size and reach.

The MOQ (minimum order quantity) is 10 frames.

They are roughly around $600 plus shipping.

At this time I'm just looking for people that are interested as I have about 5 covered so far and as soon as I have a picture I will probably start a group post on it's own.

M600 motor with battery is also available.

Also for those who do not want to build themselves I will offer a custom build service. And you will be able to make it as high end or low end as you like. Keeping in mind the cheaper you go the sooner stuff breaks.

 

[waynebergman]

Hey thanks DDfred, I am very close to buying from Dengfu direct through Alibaba. I will go with the M09 frame Carbon Fibre/Bafang M600 with throttle. Looking for October 1 delivery no tariffs to Canada. I will keep things posted when it arrives.......wayne

 

[Surfingjeff]

Hey thanks DDfred, I am very close to buying from Dengfu direct through Alibaba. I will go with the M09 frame Carbon Fibre/Bafang M600 with throttle. Looking for October 1 delivery no tariffs to Canada. I will keep things posted when it arrives.......wayne

When is your expected eta on your bike? Have they built it yet? They usually can send pictures.

Regards

Jeff Storey

 

[waynebergman]

HI Jeff, I will update on the other thread....... wayne

 

[JonoP]

HI Dave
Hey that Banshee is a nice looking bike. It will be fun for sure with the HD1000 but there will not be enough ground clearance for riding the steeps. Any obstacle of size or step down of size encountered on a steep decent will catch the hanging motor with that frame but that does not mean it wont be an awesome fun bike. Just not a good mix for the HD1000 and riding steeper trails in my opinion.

Not trying to disuade anyone from going down the purpose built frame path. I do beleive that mounting the motor inside the triangle/frame will eventually turn out to be the best engineering solution.

However for anyone that may be thinking of compromising i can vouch that you can do an awful lot with the motor mounted below the triangle. Ive attached a pic of my Glory with the motor mounted below. I wasnt able to rotate the motor up as far as i would have liked due to the frame thickness down there (these things are build like tanks) so the motor is about 15mm lower than the edge of the front chain ring.
Even with that compromise i can hit DH tracks at full speed on this bike. The only times i have bottomed on the motor are times that i would have bottomed anyway on a non modified DH bike. im finding that the weak point of the setup is not the position of the motor but instead that the internals arent really strong enoug to take repeated hard landings. Bent cranks and notched bearings are starting to become a hassle, but i guess you cant expect to turn a DH bike into a MX bike for $700