Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike
- Thread starter Allex
- Start date
Offroader said:
I guess if the goal is to get more power without replacing the controller, it might make sense.
Otherwise, you are correct, you could just change the gearing to get more speed.
I'm trying to figure out a way to get some extra battery on board. Not many good places to mount one.
motomoto
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I just ordered 4 Zippy 2S 8ah batteries to parallel and series in to get some more volts with a stock setup. I am thinking that
2 batteries on each side of the battery pack in between the frame tubes. Maybe a plastic cover that holds 2 batteries on
each side with the edges tucked inside the frame. Batteries and plastic cover held in place with industrial strength velcro.
2 batteries on each side of the battery pack in between the frame tubes. Maybe a plastic cover that holds 2 batteries on
each side with the edges tucked inside the frame. Batteries and plastic cover held in place with industrial strength velcro.
motomoto
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I think about making something I could sell to make the bikes faster. I could vacuum form a battery holders for the Zippies
and it might be worth it. If I made up a wiring harness and the batteries and vacuum molded cover were held on the
bike with velcro, it might be a neat little hop up for the Sur-ron The extra batteries could not fall off because they
could not go anywhere because the main battery pack would keep them in place. Another 2S of battery would increase
the fun factor in my opinion. More Volts = More Fun.
Yes. they would have to be charged separately. but the main pack would charge normally. I will do one up and see.
and it might be worth it. If I made up a wiring harness and the batteries and vacuum molded cover were held on the
bike with velcro, it might be a neat little hop up for the Sur-ron The extra batteries could not fall off because they
could not go anywhere because the main battery pack would keep them in place. Another 2S of battery would increase
the fun factor in my opinion. More Volts = More Fun.
Yes. they would have to be charged separately. but the main pack would charge normally. I will do one up and see.
I was able to do a quick ride between rain storms. Below are the CA screen shots. I started with a full pack, hot off the charger.
At the end of the ride, the Sur-Ron battery meter was showing 45%. Ride was all sport mode and I took off hard at every stop.
You can see the pack voltage sags quite a bit at full current.
The current limit would start out at about 77A and slowly rise if held at the limit for a long time. This may be due to heating in the shunt (artifact). On accelerations, I was seeing numbers mostly around 4500W.
I also re-measured the full speed, no-load current with the pack fully charged, hot off the charger and it was closer to 14A, 900W but dropped steadily as the pack voltage started to drop.
I was too lazy to try taking the belt off, but I did take off the chain and it measured about 750W at full speed. So the chain and windage from the rear wheel take up about 150W at full speed. I verified the brakes are not dragging at all.
At the end of the ride, the Sur-Ron battery meter was showing 45%. Ride was all sport mode and I took off hard at every stop.
You can see the pack voltage sags quite a bit at full current.
The current limit would start out at about 77A and slowly rise if held at the limit for a long time. This may be due to heating in the shunt (artifact). On accelerations, I was seeing numbers mostly around 4500W.
I also re-measured the full speed, no-load current with the pack fully charged, hot off the charger and it was closer to 14A, 900W but dropped steadily as the pack voltage started to drop.
I was too lazy to try taking the belt off, but I did take off the chain and it measured about 750W at full speed. So the chain and windage from the rear wheel take up about 150W at full speed. I verified the brakes are not dragging at all.
fechter said:
This is with the stock controller? That's a lot of amps. I'll measure the X controller this week... I think if it is only 83A, I'm going to return it. What's the point of gaining a few amps, no regen and no speed increase? It's not much quieter either. It still makes a lot of noise once you get moving. It doesn't seem worth $500...
over 70wh/mile holy sh....
I doubt i ever reached that consumption with my hubbies, even with more volts and amps.
Will do a hard ride home after work and measure what my MXUS will do with 100A/240 @ 20s when i go hard.
Thanks for the measurements.
I doubt i ever reached that consumption with my hubbies, even with more volts and amps.
Will do a hard ride home after work and measure what my MXUS will do with 100A/240 @ 20s when i go hard.
Thanks for the measurements.
ziltoid81 said:
It does seem like a lot compared to bicycles, but I'm starting to think this is not unreasonable for a motor this big. It is a beast of a motor. They probably could have used a smaller motor and reduced losses quite a bit. I'm OK with a motor that's too big. Now I just need more battery.
n2mb said:
Yes, this is the stock controller. Others have reported lower readings, so possibly mine is not "normal".
The X controller has field weakening, so should have a higher top speed. This may be only useful if the gearing is lowered.
I thought the X controller had regen? Regen would be useful for long steep downgrades as I have had the brakes fade on mine.
There's no Regen in the latest batch of x controllers. No speed increase as far as I can get. Exactly the same top speed, 42 MPH via GPS on both stock and the x controller.
What does your display indicate for top speed with the tire in the air? I get 52 MPH, so it could be power limited at top speed.
What does your display indicate for top speed with the tire in the air? I get 52 MPH, so it could be power limited at top speed.
Hot off the charger, it was around 50mph, but my speedometer isn't exactly dialed in. Probably closer to 52mph in reality. When I was running wide open on flat ground (40mph), the current was close to the limit, so it may be power limited.n2mb said:
If the X controller had field weakening, I would expect a much higher unloaded top speed.
Ok back home, i couldn't go faster or dumber and i couldnt reach 70wh/mile..... only got 62 with 80amps @ 20s and field weakening.
I forgot to up the power, but its already more than the sur ron.
And under this circumstances, (i was braking and accelerating all the time) the middrive should outperform my hub in therms of efficiency.
I forgot to up the power, but its already more than the sur ron.
And under this circumstances, (i was braking and accelerating all the time) the middrive should outperform my hub in therms of efficiency.
liveforphysics
100 TW
That's how to win!
Remember to keep your motor phase leads short so the inductance the controller experiences while tuning matches (or close) the representative system inductance. Im excited to see if it can break 30hp with enough tuning.
Remember to keep your motor phase leads short so the inductance the controller experiences while tuning matches (or close) the representative system inductance. Im excited to see if it can break 30hp with enough tuning.
bigbore said:ziltoid81 said:
This is what I have when I ride the in the hardest way I can with my QS205 and Max-e controller and 20S14P Sony VTC6:
54Wh/Km = 86Wh/mile
Damn that is a pretty darn high but you are pushing 12KW. Do you have serious over heating issues where you have to stop riding to let your motor cool off?
I get 36 Wh/KM or 58 WH / mile on my 8KW bike and that is pushing the bike pretty hard with max-e and MXUS turbo.
Offroader said:bigbore said:ziltoid81 said:
This is what I have when I ride the in the hardest way I can with my QS205 and Max-e controller and 20S14P Sony VTC6:
54Wh/Km = 86Wh/mile
Damn that is a pretty darn high but you are pushing 12KW. Do you have serious over heating issues where you have to stop riding to let your motor cool off?
I get 36 Wh/KM or 58 WH / mile on my 8KW bike and that is pushing the bike pretty hard with max-e and MXUS turbo.
I guess MXUS turbo and QS205 are a bit different in regard of overheating. I added 10ml of Ferrofluid in my QS205 and since than I don't have any problem on road full throttle (95-100 km/h) at 10-11kW on a straight road of about 4km. The only way to get the motor at around 90°C is at low speed on deep sand or crawling steep hills. But anyway in these last two situations I hit 70°C on the the mosfets before having motor overheat.
12kw.....i wanted to compare it to the power level of the sur ron..... and even i was slightly above.
Of course you can get higher consumption with 12kw and going hard.
That wasnt my intention.
With 12kw the sur ron will hit 100wh/mile easily i guess.
To me it seems that the sur ron uses more wh than it should.
The point of a mid drive is better performance from the start and in accelerating conditions, even there a hubby outperforms it.
Maybe the x is more efficient...... i was comparing sqare vs sine, maybe its a bit unfair.
Of course you can get higher consumption with 12kw and going hard.
That wasnt my intention.
With 12kw the sur ron will hit 100wh/mile easily i guess.
To me it seems that the sur ron uses more wh than it should.
The point of a mid drive is better performance from the start and in accelerating conditions, even there a hubby outperforms it.
Maybe the x is more efficient...... i was comparing sqare vs sine, maybe its a bit unfair.
3DTOPO
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I just got back from my first snow ride. A few inches of powder made for an interesting run! Definitely needed a bit of momentum to get up anything steep. I really need to build a new swing arm for some 5" fatties. I suppose I will be hanging up the bike for winter soon, so, it should be a good time to take off the swing-arm to get some good measurements of it.
3DTOPO said:
That's some serious snow. From the picture, controller heating won't be an issue.
3DTOPO said:
Nice. Great to still have that ebike enthusiasm. I remember when I was new to ebikes I would bring the bike out in freezing temps all the time. I even bought heated electric grips which made a huge difference in the cold.
I found 40 degrees to be the cutoff where above it was easy to ride around, below 40 degrees it was a bit too cold.
Now I just mostly bring the bike out in the summer and on the hot days.
Maybe if I get a Sur-Ron I'll be bringing it back out in the winter.
3DTOPO
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Offroader said:
I'm not a wheel builder, so won't comment on how true they are, but I do need to tighten up some spokes. Got 1,000 miles on them now.
Offroader said:
Well, not just ebikes; before my Sur-Ron, I had gone on a bike ride practically every day of Cosmo's life (dog in the pic) and he'll be turning 4 in December. Been out on my fat bike when its -10F out (yes negative F)!
That said, one gets much colder faster on an ebike without having to pedal and moving at a much higher (and sustained) average speed.
