Sur-Ron - New Mid drive Bike

efMX Trials Electric Freeride said:
ebikeguy123 said:
efMX Trials Electric Freeride said:
saw a couple of interesting things on the inner webs..

Sur-Ron with wider rear swingarm and other mods from sur-ron-italia.it :

sur_ron_italia_article_9-550x370.jpg


sur_ron_italia_article_3-498x370.jpg


sur_ron_italia_article_4-498x370.jpg


https://electricmotorcycles.news/sur-ron-italia-competizione-concept-by-gb-e-moto/

Nice! I was looking for a way to put a larger tire on the back.. i would prefer something that looks more like the original swing arm though.

since this wider swingarm is cnc milled, one could have it styled or color of choice..

it was a great idea of the builder to have the wider swingarm outside of the mainframe for wider tire fit while also strengthening the peg mounts area (a weak pt on stock bike).. and this concept could likely be replicated by skilled machinists anywhere..

I agree... im making one similar but looks more like the original and adding the 10.5 kW Bosch motor and ASI 8000 72v 3kW higher density cells. Maybe use the swing arm that incorporates the motor and that way you have enough room for a 5kW battery.
 
ebikeguy123 said:
efMX Trials Electric Freeride said:
ebikeguy123 said:
efMX Trials Electric Freeride said:
saw a couple of interesting things on the inner webs..

Sur-Ron with wider rear swingarm and other mods from sur-ron-italia.it :

sur_ron_italia_article_9-550x370.jpg


sur_ron_italia_article_3-498x370.jpg


sur_ron_italia_article_4-498x370.jpg


https://electricmotorcycles.news/sur-ron-italia-competizione-concept-by-gb-e-moto/

Nice! I was looking for a way to put a larger tire on the back.. i would prefer something that looks more like the original swing arm though.

since this wider swingarm is cnc milled, one could have it styled or color of choice..

it was a great idea of the builder to have the wider swingarm outside of the mainframe for wider tire fit while also strengthening the peg mounts area (a weak pt on stock bike).. and this concept could likely be replicated by skilled machinists anywhere..

I agree... im making one similar but looks more like the original and adding the 10.5 kW Bosch motor and ASI 8000 72v 3kW higher density cells. Maybe use the swing arm that incorporates the motor and that way you have enough room for a 5kW battery. WOuld have to replace the jack shaft with a planetary reduction.
 
fechter said:
While the weather is rainy here, I've been busy working on a few things. I installed a hinge at the rear of the seat made from an old door hinge that I cut, bent and drilled. The front is held down by a really strong magnet that grabs a piece of steel bolted to the front seat bolts. The ends of the bolts stick out past the nuts enough to engage the holes in the frame so it doesn't slide around. Between the frame members, I wedged in a plastic box that came from an old power brick. This is just big enough to hold the tool kit and my registration papers. This raises the seat by about 2cm, which I can use since I have long legs.

Img_1021A.jpg

Also working on a secondary battery that rides on the rear. There is a piece of aluminum "GCX" channel bolted to the sub frame that holds the seat. There is a piece on the battery frame that slides into the channel for quick release. The pack will be split between the two Pelican cases and have a total of 16s, 12p of some old Panasonic DA cells I've had lying around for years. This should approximately double the capacity and also double the amount of current I can pull without tripping the BMS.

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The secondary pack will be in parallel with the main pack ahead of the "Air Switch" circuit breaker. Connection will be via 8ga wire and a pair of XT150 connectors. The secondary pack will have a single port BMS so I can charge both packs at the same time using the stock charger and charge port.

Img_1028A.jpg

If this all works out, I should have about 50 miles of range and have the ability to run 2x more power. The pack is still under construction but I hope to get it up and running soon. The secondary pack won't be good for serious off road riding but is easily removed in case I want to catch some air. For the street and more sedate trail riding, I think it will work wonders.

Looks good. Is there enough room to put the charger in there? Im looking to have the charger on board for traveling. I put a Bob trailer on the Sur Ron for traveling. Machining a new axle bolt to incorporate the proper pegs needed.
 

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ebikeguy123 said:
Looks good. Is there enough room to put the charger in there? Im looking to have the charger on board for traveling.

No, not even close. Maybe if the seat was raised by about 4".
 
ebikeguy123 said:
Tommm said:
ebikeguy123 said:
Thanks. I found it well worth the money. It was definitely a noticeable improvement. Now with better handling... Next upgrade is a 10.5 kW Bosch motor with higher density cells and ASI 8000 controller. Ive already blown up 2 Sur Ron motors with larger controllers. Looks like the Bosch motors used in motorcycles are the same as the stop start alternators... also used for mild hybrids. Go to time stamp 5:39 of this vid to see the motor https://youtu.be/4k5TDZ6irG4

Im looking into adding batteries and kit from Bosch to my Audi Q5 TDI to make it into a plug in hybrid. It has the same Bosch alternator/motor.

The qs 3kw mid drive seems to handle a lot more power than the sur ron motor then. There are builds with 15-21kw battery amps with it.

i wonder if the extra weight from the motor on the swing arm is an issue with suspension and handling? If you make the trailing arms telescopic to accommodate different motorbike frames and wheel sizes... then possibly an answer to retrofitting a lot of used motorbikes... VERY interesting. Thank u. The Sur Ron White Ghost also has the motor in the swing arm. Leaves more room for battery and maybe better weight distribution?

This design is neat because it allows for a mid drive type power train, however, the enemy of handling when it comes to suspension is unsuspended mass. This design will probably not function any better handling wise than having the hub motor in the wheel. Of course I could be incorrect as this design, even though unsuspended, does move the heavy mass closer to the center of the machine.
 
Rix said:
This design is neat because it allows for a mid drive type power train, however, the enemy of handling when it comes to suspension is unsuspended mass. This design will probably not function any better handling wise than having the hub motor in the wheel. Of course I could be incorrect as this design, even though unsuspended, does move the heavy mass closer to the center of the machine.

The closer the unsprung mass is at the pivot point, the better it is. It should function much better than having a hub motor, but the sprung mass also plays a big role. A heavy hub motor mounted on a lightweight bicylce frame is the worst you can have in terms of suspension.
 
The best part about the sur-ron is that it doesn't have a heavy motor in the rear wheel. This was by far the biggest issue with a hub motor bike.

The rear suspension feels just as smooth as the front on the sur-ron, far different then a hub motor bike where the rear suspension is harsh. The rear wheel also keeps the traction to the ground much better, really noticeable when riding up steps where a hub motor would be bouncing off stairs.
 
Sur Ron Homoglation kit & other Tips & Tricks

Hey Everyone, I am iterating on other people's work (thank you).

I could never find a complete kit, so hope to have accomplished that below (sans headlight). Below is a full kit and ugly wiring diagram. I had no trouble registering it as a moped in CA and getting insurance via Geico.
What might be new about my kit is using the acerbis fender + brake light which attaches nicely to the sur ron fender - perfect size.
brake-turn-signals.png

Note: When I took this pic of the plate, I had bent the fendor down using a heat gun. Don’t do that, tire will rub. License plate should be pointing up more to the sky.

As others have done, The on/off switch acts like the Sport/EP mode switch on the old controller:
View attachment 6

I had to relocate the speedo using some random parts laying around:
speedo.png

Solid state relay (part # below) is attached using 3M Velcro-like stuff under the battery cover. I need to harden up the wiring a bit more somehow – too loosey goosey for my taste.
solid state relay.png

Parts:

Acerbis tail light/brake light w/ license plate light:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0068G1LZS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Multi function control switch:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N29QH2K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

LED flasher:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00RM26LXO/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Didn't need resisters - works like a charm

Solid state relay: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00B888WVC/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 For brake light. It doesn’t look like the pic at amazon – looks like my pic.

Turn Signals:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GU734UA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 I bought this exact part from Amazon years ago for my KTM and the signals were super flexible, not anymore. :( Would suggest getting ones that are more flexible for the rears which are the ones that tend to get destroyed.

Turn signal mounts:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00VM8DPYC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Connector: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0734P8F45/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 Just used one waterproof 5 pin connector from this kit to connect everything in the rear fender so I could remove the rear fender/seat easily. Kinda big, don’t love it but it worked.

Stuff I had laying around:
Shrink wrap
Extra wire
Wire jacket

Tools:
Heat gun, shrink wrap & an electrical tester comes in handy


Ugly wiring diagram. The hard parts are 1) the solid state relay, 2) to know to put the flasher relay going into the switch (obvious in retrospect). Maybe the next person to do this can make a nicer drawing:
wiring diag.png
Update: Diagram is out of date: I had some weird issues leaving the brake disconnect wiring in place in the harness like the diagram shows. I was always getting a ‘hot’ line coming out of the reed switches when hooked up to the sur ron harness, so I abandoned that and no longer use the reed switches to disconnect the engine on braking as originally intended – they are just used for the brake light.



Other Tips & Tricks:

- Reed switches: I fried mine (dumb mistake on my side). Neither Luna nor Sur Ron could provide a replacement part (which is a bit concerning that they don’t make all their parts available). I found that a reed switch m/n MK14-1C90E-500W works just fine, but I put two layers of shrink wrap over it because they were slightly slimmer in diameter.

- Giant Loop tail fender bag works nicely under the seat (I removed the plastic under the seat which didn’t seem to do anything and allowed me access to loop the straps around the sub frame). Not really easy to get stuff in/out of, but good for emergency tools/tube kit.
toolkit.png

- iPhone 5 fits perfectly over the speedometer area, I hold in with a couple straps (only 1 shown) and giant loop fender hooks: https://www.giantloopmoto.com/product/fender-hooks-set-4/
phone strap.png

- Topeak Mini Morph Bike Pump’s bracket nestles in between the battery and frame and with a couple straps holds in place: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FICCQC/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
topeak.png

For new sur ron owners or people thinking about it:

- Bike is a blast in technical riding. You can do about about 25mi (3 hrs for me) of hard riding
- Check how the wires are coming out of the wiring harness out to the handlebars and how they are strapped (or not strapped in). Mine were strapped in a way that had a lot of flex and I was sure they would cause problems later.
- The pedal kit is bad. Its as if I made it in my garage – you really don’t want this on your bike unless you absolutely have to. It will cause problems.
- There is a connector under the seat that is completely open, find it, tape it off at least. Same for a connector in the wiring harness under the key switch. Just an open connector sitting there. To me, open connectors + water = shorts. Whoever designed the frame, motor and/or battery on this bike obviously didn’t oversee the entire wiring harness.
 
Nice upgrades!
But it seems your rear fender and toolkit bag will touch (smash into each other?) when you need to use the rear suspension travel completely.
 
SlowCo said:
Nice upgrades!
But it seems your rear fender and toolkit bag will touch (smash into each other?) when you need to use the rear suspension travel completely.

Normally I have the bag tucked in close to the shock (I should have taken a better pic), and haven't had any problems with some hard trail riding (but I don't take big jumps). I did have the license plate rub and have angled it way up since I took the photo.
 
So for buying the bike in America, would you guys recommend getting the Luna X or just the original light bee model? I'm asking because I saw some comments that said the bike with the X Controller performed the same if not worse than the original bike. Anyone have direct experience with this?
 
smr310 said:
So for buying the bike in America, would you guys recommend getting the Luna X or just the original light bee model? I'm asking because I saw some comments that said the bike with the X Controller performed the same if not worse than the original bike. Anyone have direct experience with this?

If you plan on getting the power upgrade kit later on, buying the x controller model is burning money. I'm not sure if the seat foam and other upgrades have been applied to the regular model over time now though.
 
My two bikes are the standard version. I bought the X controllers and installed them myself. The bikes have substantially more power than when they were stock. Not sure about the bikes that come with the x controller. If I had it to do over again, I would still buy the stock bikes and put the x controller on myself. I don't care for the color offerings of the x-bike. Also, I would just throw away the o-ring chain and buy a standard chain. I don't really care if it's a little quieter, I just want less resistance.
 
Merlin said:
offroader is the latest here who bought a X model.
and he is not happy about the power it has.

would be cool if he measured the amps. then we know if the "X" are castrated :p
Already done a while back.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=89902&start=2675#p1430367
 
Merlin said:
Backflip on dirt :D

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bnu276nHTvn/

So awesome! More videos of this guy riding it!
 
Hi Merlin did u got my message?i ask to send me picture what size tire go on wheel?can u send me picture?
 
Mark,
Nope no messages from you. Just my messages I'll send to you.
If you check outbox in your pms there should be a message to me or not :p

If you send email to me I can send you pics.

@offroader.... You're right. Missed it.
But 75a @59v nominal should be real 4,4kw.

I rode a legal surron and even in unlocked mode Iam not able to lift the front. I would compare it more to 2kw only.
I saw the slow surron wheelie video also.... But this is impossible with the legal surron.

And I think I know how it works....

[youtube]pgsx9_oJCuA[/youtube]


My lmx jumps me right in the face in normal mode. Even in eco I can lift it.
 
Merlin said:
My lmx jumps me right in the face in normal mode. Even in eco I can lift it.

Pulling a wheelie is 20% power, 40% geometry, 40% body position. You can wheelie crazy weak bikes just hang very far back.
 
yes, but its just comparing....i rode alot of bikes and beside a heavy drag while pushing the bike (maybe the belt) its way weaker then my lmx.
it has no X controller but for me it would be way to weak to have "fun"
fun is not sitting on the rear tire and ripping of the handlebar to snap a wheelie :D
 
Merlin said:
yes, but its just comparing....i rode alot of bikes and beside a heavy drag while pushing the bike (maybe the belt) its way weaker then my lmx.
it has no X controller but for me it would be way to weak to have "fun"
fun is not sitting on the rear tire and ripping of the handlebar to snap a wheelie :D

Yes from what I've read the X controller has a different throttle response too.
 
ebikeguy123 said:
]
I have Fox 40 and DHX2 10.5 x 3.5. Saint M820 brakes. Deity 80mm rise handlebars. Makes for a much smother ride and better handling. Gets rid of a few pounds as well. My back feels a lot better after a long ride.
The stock shock is 10.5x3.0". So your wheel is now goes deeper into the travel than stock. Have you removed the spring and checked clearance at bottom out?
 
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