SURRON LB: RESEARCH & DEVELOPEMENT

Jonathan1981 said:
A few people have modded packs? what cells and config are they using? anyone know? 30Q sammy's seems like the obvious choice...but then new BMS and Controller required.
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In the luna stunt video they used lipos, and promised 25R later(which is a terrible cell in 2019).
So far I haven't seen a lot of finished products, maybe some others here have.
 
Allex said:
How is it terrible? Name a few that are better and have similar price? We have 21700 cells but they are 2x 3x the price.
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For a similar price, usually it isn't worthwhile to go for a 25R over the 30Q, if you can get vtc6, even better. They will already fare better after only 25% is used.

Some more modern cells smash it like the 25S, 24S, and 30T, but at a different price.
 
I am building new surron battery with 30q cells. I do build a lot of cells with 30q but will not state that they are better in any way compared to 25r. More cap sure, but power wise they are not up to it and will degrade fast if used at 20A. Will prolly offer ready made solutions. This one will be 16s13p with stock BMS that is boosted to ´bout 160A throughput, all ready to go for a new controller. But even good with stock one, because sag will be minimal so you will notice more power and of course longer run time.
 
Allex said:
I am building new surron battery with 30q cells. I do build a lot of cells with 30q but will not state that they are better in any way compared to 25r. More cap sure, but power wise they are not up to it and will degrade fast if used at 20A. Will prolly offer ready made solutions. This one will be 16s13p with stock BMS that is boosted to ´bout 160A throughput, all ready to go for a new controller. But even good with stock one, because sag will be minimal so you will notice more power and of course longer run time.
Click to expand...

I am really keen to hear how you get on, I have been hoping someone would mod a stock battery to 30Q cells, and do a tutorial please :mrgreen: How much extra range would you think we could get?
 
pipeking said:
Allex said:
I am building new surron battery with 30q cells. I do build a lot of cells with 30q but will not state that they are better in any way compared to 25r. More cap sure, but power wise they are not up to it and will degrade fast if used at 20A. Will prolly offer ready made solutions. This one will be 16s13p with stock BMS that is boosted to ´bout 160A throughput, all ready to go for a new controller. But even good with stock one, because sag will be minimal so you will notice more power and of course longer run time.
Click to expand...

I am really keen to hear how you get on, I have been hoping someone would mod a stock battery to 30Q cells, and do a tutorial please :mrgreen: How much extra range would you think we could get?
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Yep...diddo...

Guys, it's been a busy winter, I wish this thread would have a bit more activity. I'll be getting into a bunch of mod stuff this summer so should liv'n up a bit.
 
Hmmm.... damn, seems like 30Q's are getting a bad rap...check it out.. just started this thread in battery tech a few days ago...

29E and 25R being recommended...

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=99047&p=1451001#p1451001
 
A lot of bullshit for sure.
29E? that cell is a dinosaur! At 3A discharge you need to have 50 cells in P group to have 150A discharge rate.
I can kill any cell after 50 cycles or make them go more than 600, all depends on how you treat em.
Anything over 3-400cycles is dead weight anyway, because capacity is down by at least 1/3. Who want to ride around with that?
 
30Q ages well in high-rate use situations and poorly in low-C rates.

30T is a 2170, but has fantastic power density, and would be the ultimate hotrod/drag pack cell.

40T is also a 2170, and has good power and fair energy density.

LG M50 has good power and great energy density.

The best cell for you would depend on what you're doing. If you're trying to set lap records, 30T is about as good as you will find without stuffing the box with hobby pouches. If you want riding endurance, M50 is pretty impressive.
 
liveforphysics said:
30Q ages well in high-rate use situations and poorly in low-C rates.

30T is a 2170, but has fantastic power density, and would be the ultimate hotrod/drag pack cell.

40T is also a 2170, and has good power and fair energy density.

LG M50 has good power and great energy density.

The best cell for you would depend on what you're doing. If you're trying to set lap records, 30T is about as good as you will find without stuffing the box with hobby pouches. If you want riding endurance, M50 is pretty impressive.
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budget is a concern also, 2170's are new and expensive...
 
Merlin said:
bad rep from who?
i know a bunch of guys who still riding 30q and no one has issues. (incl me)
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lol. i hear different things from everyone, 30Q good for this, bad for that... go through that thread I linked above. It's a cluster F of cell info lol... forget 2170, would be the best but budget is a concern.
 
I don't need a thread. I have around 4500 cells build.
No issues. 2 doa cells. That's it.
Yea 21700 are a bit pricey but they are frocking great :D
For now I have only 40T here but it's really nice pushing real world 40a without overheating. 8p~330a peak.
You can build very powerful (light) packs.
You want power you have to pay. =)
You only need range, m50 is for now the way to go.
 
Yeah I think for a modded Surry pack, the 30Q's would be the way go, as per Alex's description above...16S13P... and no one has done this already? wtf. surprised.. or maybe everyone is just waiting for a turn key kit to come out @ 72V??

Furthermore, after researching, getting caught up to speed with all things battery.... damn, just realizing the new 21700 form factor IS THE TICKET!!... it means I could build a pack 18S20P, still get descent C buffer, thinner, lighter pack, less connections and just as much Cap, heck, would be 1ah more than 18S30P 18650 30Q pack lol...

I'll have to rob a bank tho :lol:
 
liveforphysics said:
30Q ages well in high-rate use situations and poorly in low-C rates.

30T is a 2170, but has fantastic power density, and would be the ultimate hotrod/drag pack cell.

40T is also a 2170, and has good power and fair energy density.

LG M50 has good power and great energy density.

The best cell for you would depend on what you're doing. If you're trying to set lap records, 30T is about as good as you will find without stuffing the box with hobby pouches. If you want riding endurance, M50 is pretty impressive.
Click to expand...

Hey Luke, Hypothetically, if one was to build a big enough battery where the power demands never exceeded 2C, what would be the best cell for max capacity and longevity?
 
ok so what's the verdict? I would be happy to throw a couple of thousand (more) at this thing if I could get double or more range... is that a possibility or a pipe dream?
 
It seems to me that given a volume is advantageous (greater Wh and greater V) use 18650 Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6 instead of 21700 Samsung 40T
 
Range isn't something you're going to improve greatly with a cell swap, because range is about energy. You could improve it some (maybe 25-35% with a MJ1 cell or 35E cell, or M50 cell).

The cell swap advantages come from the ability to double/triple the power available from a pack at the stock weight and dimensions.

Cell swaps are way more geared around people hunting HP than hunting range.
 
Coming soon:

Img_1121.jpg



16s, 12p quick release add-on pack. This will be in parallel with the main pack so getting more power is also an option.
I'm down to the final assembly steps and hope to test this weekend.

The cells are not high performance, but they've been lying around the garage too long and needed some work to do.
This won't be ideal for taking jumps or racing off road, but will be perfect for my application, which is mostly street riding.

I'd really like that belt drive setup too!
 
Nice job sir! That gives a nice boost in range!
 
First test went well. Did a 30+ mile ride and the battery meter was showing 36% at the end. Handling does not seem to be adversely affected, in fact it seems the extra weight on the rear smooths out the bumps nicely and it doesn't bounce around as much on bumpy corners. Cells got mildly warm. So far I'm super happy with it.

Img_1128A.jpg

Final configuration uses giant hose clamps to strengthen the mounting.
 
I tapped into the main battery wires between the stock pack and the air switch (circuit breaker).
 
skyungjae said:
skyungjae said:
It looks like ERT is taking pre-orders on their plug and play ASI:

https://electricrt.com/sur-ron-upgrades/
Click to expand...

I posted this in the main Sur Ron thread, but it'll be buried quick considering that it's 129 pages at the moment. Posting it here so it'll be easier to find in the future.
Click to expand...

I am trying to update the first post about all the new upgrades that are coming out.
 
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