Throttle & Battery query re Emmo/Eskuta/Kuma/Cuca bike.

[Easygoing]

Apologies for the tedious newbie questions, but I promise I have searched.

I have a Kuma K1, which is a moped looking ebike based on a generic Chinese model branded elsewhere as Emmo Urban, Cuca, Racceway, Eskuta, and several others. Looks like this -

My first question is regarding installing a throttle. I have a spare throttle with red, white and black wires knocking around, but I'm struggling to ID the connection in the front of the bike. This looks like an obvious candidate, because it wasn't connected to anything -

I've tried connecting the throttle I have as is, to no effect, though I notice the PAS won't kick in if I spin the peddles when it's connected. Am I in the right wheelhouse with it though? I'd guess I should be interpreting the grey and pink wires as equivalent to black and red respectively, and have to adapt the order of my throttle's wires to match the order here?

Seondly, these come with a 48v20ah battery pack in a slightly eccentric battery enclosure that looks like this -

I'm looking to get a second pack with an extended range so I can swap in and out as needed, but they don't seem to be available in this country (they do exist elsewhere, but importing one looks like a pain in the ass)

I understand I don't have to conform to the weird enclosure shape, but my concern is that if I get a far more easily sourced standard brick battery, it'll rattle around in there during travel and get damaged. I'm also wondering how easy it is to adapt a regular AliExpress battery for use with this kind of connection, because from what I can tell they don't come supplied -

I guess my stupid question is, what's the safest way for somebody not super technically minded to adapt a battery for this space so it's secure, and adapt for this connection? Wrapping it in some kind of insulation feels a bit sketchy, and I'd prefer keep stray wires to a minimum when we're talking about power.

Apologies again for the basic bozo questions, but any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[amberwolf]

My first question is regarding installing a throttle. I have a spare throttle with red, white and black wires knocking around, but I'm struggling to ID the connection in the front of the bike. This looks like an obvious candidate, because it wasn't connected to anything

If it didn't come with a throttle, it is unlikely to support one without replacing the controller. Quite a few OEM systems (probably most of them) that don't come with (insert feature here) can support said feature.

If the system has a display, then if you replace the controller you'll want to do so with a "kit" that comes with it's own display, as it's unlikely to be compatible with any other. (there is a *small* amount of cross-compatibility of certain controllers and displays but chances are long against it). Make sure the controller matches all the features you want the system to support and that are on the scooter that you want to keep.

I've tried connecting the throttle I have as is, to no effect, though I notice the PAS won't kick in if I spin the peddles when it's connected. Am I in the right wheelhouse with it though? I'd guess I should be interpreting the grey and pink wires as equivalent to black and red respectively, and have to adapt the order of my throttle's wires to match the order here?

It sounds like either this connector is in parallel with the PAS connector signal, and since a throttle is analog voltage range but the PAS is a pulsed voltage notating pedal rotations, the signal isn't valid to the controller when throttle is connected.

Alternately, the wiring of the connector may not match your throttle's (common problem), and it might be shorting out the 5v (whcih supplies the PAS too), preventing PAS from working.

Alternately, the 5v on the system may not be sufficient to power the throttle and the PAS (not likely).

Or, the connector is for something else entirely (alarm, antitheft, system programming, etc), and when connected to anything at all other than the intended device disables the system.

It may not even *have* 5v on it, it might be 12v, or full battery voltage (in either case the throttle's sensor is now probably damaged or destroyed).


Because of potential problems like that, before trying to connect anything to any connector you are not absolutely certain of the wiring, signals, and voltage on, it is a good idea to use a multimeter set to 20VDC to measure each contact / pin with the red meter lead, (black meter lead on the battery negative wire wherever you can connect to it; any ground lead should be the same, but battery negative anywhere up to the controller is the best most certain reference).

Seondly, these come with a 48v20ah battery pack in a slightly eccentric battery enclosure that looks like this -

I'm looking to get a second pack with an extended range so I can swap in and out as needed, but they don't seem to be available in this country (they do exist elsewhere, but importing one looks like a pain in the ass)

Depending on the range you are after, under whatever your riding conditions are, and the specifics of the battery it came with (chemistry, specific cell source, design, etc), you may be able to replace the battery inside the casing you have with one that is enough better to do what you want (or at least get a lot closer to it).

Also note that the smaller the battery, the lower it's capacity is going to be, regardless of the claims of the seller. (there is some variation in that, but it's a good general rule).

I understand I don't have to conform to the weird enclosure shape, but my concern is that if I get a far more easily sourced standard brick battery, it'll rattle around in there during travel and get damaged.

They did invent padding for a reason. If you get dense closed-cell foam (like in exercise mats, etc) you can glue it (in layers for thickness if necessary) to whatever battery shape you end up with, to make it fit the space. It might look like crap but as long as it makes it fit tightly enough to not move around under your riding conditions, it doesn't matter because it's inside the scooter. It does not have to be completely enclosed in the foam, just have it in the right places to keep it from moving around. Or you can use coroplast, or sheet plastic, etc., and build a casing for it that makes it fit better.

I'm also wondering how easy it is to adapt a regular AliExpress battery for use with this kind of connection, because from what I can tell they don't come supplied -

I dont' recommend "aliexpress" / etc batteries, it's nearly impossible to tell what you will actually get until you get it, and it's too likely to not be what you thought it would be, or worse, literal garbage. A good battery is likely to cost more (possibly a lot more) than the stuff generally found on ebay, amazon, aliexpress, etc., but is a whole lot more likely to do what you want it to do and not waste your money and time. EM3EV, Grin Tech, etc., are more likely to get you a battery that will work and keep working (and if it doesn't, to get it fixed for you).

I guess my stupid question is, what's the safest way for somebody not super technically minded to adapt a battery for this space so it's secure, and adapt for this connection?

The connection itself is a variant of the standard IEC C15 / C16 connector,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320
that is designed for AC use, being misused here for DC. There are several variations of these. I would guess that they are only using the two pins in the corners of the rectangular part, and you don't need the third pin in the center. If this is the case, then you can use a socket from any old junked computer power supply, etc., (or buy one new
https://www.amazon.com/Monosaudio-IEC320-Adapter-Connector-Socket/dp/B0832GF1YG
), that has a standard IEC connector on it, and simply remove the third pin from the socket before wiring up to your new battery. The linked one has clamping screw-down terminals so you don't have to solder anything, if you are not experienced at that (there is potential for problems with high current and screw terminals if not well-designed and not tightened, though there is just as much potential for problems with poorly-soldered connections).

If you prefer a connector on a cable rather than a panel-mount socket, you can get something like this
https://www.amazon.com/CableCreation-2-Pack-Standard-Computer-Adapter/dp/B01IBIBZPG
and cut the end that you don't need off, and use the remaining foot of wire and connector you do need to wire up to the new battery's output terminals. This would require soldering, unless you use crimping ferrules and a good crimper (which will make a better connection than soldering anyway, but may cost more to get good tools to do it with).

Crimpers like these
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0069TRKJ0
(I haven't used this one, but it looks just like the IWISS one I have used successfully; it's probably better)
with ferrules like these (depends on your actual wire size to be connected)
https://www.amazon.com/Pastall-Connector-Insulated-Electrical-Assortment/dp/B099ZM3YGK
(I don't know this specific item; it's just the first hit on amazon for a multi-gauge kit that also had heatshrink).

If you prefer to solder, the ferrules are still good for that, just get ones with a hole in the center for feeding solder in, and get a big fat finger-size-tipped 60w (minimum) soldering iron. The fat tip holds heat to quickly heat the joint so solder will melt and flow into it rapidly before you melt the wire insulation (fatter wires need more heat to solder correctly, too).

 

[Easygoing]

Awesome, thanks.

They can definitely have throttles installed, it's an option on purchase, but I couldn't get my bike via the taxback scheme if I got it done. :lol: I might look at some other throttles and take another look at what I have here.

Re the battery, thanks for the links, will look into them.

My concern about the jury rigged padding is really heat, I think, I'm not sure how hot those batteries get in there so I'm a bit hesitant about gluing a sweater on it lol

 

[amberwolf]

They can definitely have throttles installed, it's an option on purchase

Is this a factory option? If so, it's still just as likely that the controller is different between the two, or at least is factory-programmed differently.

If it's a dealer-installed option, then it could still be programmed differently (and probably not something an end-user can change), but the controller would probably be the same.

If it's a user-installable option, then you just have to measure the available connector wiring to see what voltages are on each wire. Then you could post those here, and we can help you guess what wiring might be used for a throttle.

My concern about the jury rigged padding is really heat, I think, I'm not sure how hot those batteries get in there so I'm a bit hesitant about gluing a sweater on it lol

If it gets hot, it's the wrong battery, or a crappy one, and shouldn't be used for the purpose anyway.

If for some reason you have to use a defective or insufficient battery that gets hot, and don't want to insulate it, then as I'd posted you can just use strips glued to it in the right places to keep it from moving, not wrap it completely.

If it's enclosed, regardless of padding, with no airflow thru it, it'll get hot that way too. So if you have a hot battery you'd need to leave it outside the scooter casing anyway, like strapped to the outside somewhere.

 

[Easygoing]

Appreciate the battery advice, I'll have to keep digging on that one.

In the meantime, updating re the Throttle with lots of detail, for anyone who might Google their way here - I eventually got a throttle to match my other grip from the original supplier in Ireland, who I won't name again for reasons that will become apparent. :lol:

They don't advertise they sell them on the website, and it was one of the worst customer experiences I've ever had, but they do have them and will post. They charge either 50 euro including installation, 56 euro not including installation but including postage, or 60 euro if you buy the item in person in the store and take home to install it yourself. But bring cash because they don't have any means of accepting digital payment apart from an iPad hotspotted through the cashier's personal mobile phone which will repeat the transaction until your bank card is blocked for suspicious behaviour.

Good times!

Anyway, this is the cable you're looking for, grey, pink and white.

- from what I can tell, the throttle actually comes as standard before being removed by the local supplier here to make it road legal. (Which, incidentally, means that if you buy direct, you're paying them 50 bucks extra to not remove anything).

What this means for you though, if you are installing one at home, is that you'll usually find the cables you need without even having to open the console/column up like I have - with the deft use of a screwdriver and a torch, you should be able to just fish the unused connection out of the gap where the handlebars meet it, lousily highlighted below.

The end of the connection will probably wrapped in black electrical tape. Pull off the tape, connect it up and bob's your uncle. Throttle and connection ham-fistedly illustrated below.

As a final piece of trivia, Alibaba has what looks a lot like a matching half twist version - https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/170X-Wuxing-newest-half-twist-throttle_1600579057307.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.63ec6eafJLrm2y

 

[LewTwo]

I'm also wondering how easy it is to adapt a regular AliExpress battery for use with this kind of connection, because from what I can tell they don't come supplied

That is a very common connector used on nearly all desktop computer power supplies. Should be relatively easy to salvage one from PS that is no longer being used (either from a dead PC or Dead PS).