Tilting 3 wheels

eoxs84 said:
Hello everybody,
I just found this forum now.
I am building an electric tilting 3 wheels small car. Working on it from one year now in my free time.
Motor: 3000W
Battery: 72V32Ah
Maxi speed: 80km/h
Link to the first prototype (not tilting): www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Fe94niZio
Link to the last video : www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwIPnE0JFo0
Enjoy ;)
Click to expand...

eoxs84 said:
Hello everybody,
I just found this forum now.
I am building an electric tilting 3 wheels small car. Working on it from one year now in my free time.
Motor: 3000W
Battery: 72V32Ah
Maxi speed: 80km/h
Link to the first prototype (not tilting): www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_Fe94niZio
Link to the last video : www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwIPnE0JFo0
Enjoy ;)

View attachment 338923
Click to expand...
Nice looking vehicle. Could you post some pictures of the front suspension? It looks like A arms and FTC? Are you happy with the handling?
 
What sort of energy efficiency and range is this thing getting?

I came across the first video a few months ago, so it was cool to stumble across it on Endless Sphere.

Tilting is hard to get right. Mad respect for getting it working.
 
Hope to see more of it.
Really cool vehicle!
 
eoxs84 said:
Just have ordered a bigger battery to increase the range.
Click to expand...
Aero improvements could give you even better results. Your current body design locks in your frontal area(so not much you can do about that), but with some side half-doors, front wheel fairings(ala Edison VLC2 or Aptera), and a tail section tapered to a point, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility to cut drag to 1/2 or even 1/3 of what it currently is without compromising its open air nature. Even something as simple as wheel disc covers on all three wheels would probably yield a 5-10% range bonus by themselves at speeds over 50 km/h.

I have a 1.5 kWh pack and get a 150-200 mile range at 30-35 mph cruising speeds, and mine weighs 91 lbs. This efficiency is obtained with my pedaling accounting for roughly 1/3 of the thrust at these speeds. My aerodynamics are nowhere near at the limits of the slipperiness possible, but 5-6 Wh/km(or what would be 8-10 Wh/km without pedaling) really puts into perspective how wasteful modern EV cars are. Your build does the same, as 20-30 Wh/km is still less than 1/4th the consumption of even the most efficient modern EV cars currently on the market.

Your build is impressive. I bet it corners like a gokart.
 
Yes indeed there are still many improvements to be made in order to optimize energy consumption.
Currently I'm focusing on the tilting front axle, I'm trying to get a smoother and lighter steering.
The old steering was a little hard for my wife ;)
 
If it's at least as stable at speed as my KMX, 90 km/h doesn't at all feel dangerous. Although the laws of physics would suggest that it is extremely dangerous. That's why I call my trike "deceptively stable", because the loading on the structurally-significant parts at that speed could indeed result in failure, and then bad things can happen.
 
The Toecutter said:
Your build is impressive. I bet it corners like a gokart.
Click to expand...
Interesting statement TC. Would lead the observant reader to question the purported advantages of tilting. Gocarts, we all know, don't tilt. However, they obviously posses greater traction due to more rubber. Which again, seems to suggest that simply installing wider tires on the non-tilting trike,... would achieve the same end-results. Maybe?
 
Papa said:
Interesting statement TC. Would lead the observant reader to question the purported advantages of tilting. Gocarts, we all know, don't tilt. However, they obviously posses greater traction due to more rubber. Which again, seems to suggest that simply installing wider tires on the non-tilting trike,... would achieve the same end-results. Maybe?
Click to expand...
Tilting will allow a 3-wheler to sustain more lateral Gs of acceleration without tipping over, than if it had the same wheel/axle placement, center of gravity, and ride height, yet could not tilt.

As a hypothetical case, tilting can mean the difference between tipping over at 0.6Gs lateral acceleration without ever exceeding the traction limits of the tires, or sustaining 1G lateral acceleration limited by the tires without tipping over.

I made the go-kart comment mostly in terms of lateral Gs sustained coupled with overall diminutive size and the maneuverability conferred as a result.
 
The Toecutter said:
Tilting will allow a 3-wheler to sustain more lateral Gs of acceleration without tipping over, than if it had the same wheel/axle placement, center of gravity, and ride height, yet could not tilt.
Click to expand...
Some design comparisons yes,.. others no. It is largely dependent on the design parameters of both examples. If the CoM is lowered and inside the calculated tipping angle on the non-tilting example, then the theoretical corning limits for both become relatively equalized. The lateral acceleration limit for both then becomes contact-patch grip.

Calculating non-tilting lateral tipping point

"if we take the track measurement B and we divide it in half we get A. We use A to construct an isosceles triangle between the contact patches. This triangle represents the tipping point for the trike. If the CoG is inside the triangle, then the trike will skid when it looses traction while cornering, if the CoG is above it, the trike will tip."
 

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Tilting the wheels moves the axles and therefore the CG inboard of the turn. In others words. The distance from the contact patch of the outside wheel to the centreline of the vehicle is greater than the distance of the inner wheel.
Also, tilting the wheels feeds cornering loads directly through the tyre in line with the axle instead of across the tread as in a kart causing less sidewall flex and less lateral stress on the wheel. Look at how much lighter the construction of a motorcycle wheel is compared to a car wheel, coz they lean.

AussieRider
 
eoxs84 said:
Currently working on the next one (Soraya) ;)
Last video of the old one (named Alba).
Click to expand...
What a beautiful vehicle you have réalisé there monsieur, really like the design and frame work. This thing really is on another level to most other projects.

FYI Esox84 has put the energy consumption figures in the description of the last video, which demonstrate just how efficient this trike is.
 
"A boring question if I may, is it registered under an EU moped license or are there different rules for trikes/quadracycles in France?"
This is not a boring question.... Currently it is circulating with W registration, that is to say in the prototype category. It is also insured so that it can be used on public roads officially. 😇
 
topspeed said:
Wouldn't three wheeler make better EV in general ?
Click to expand...

Have you ridden a trike? There are many reasons three wheelers aren't more common. They become decent choices either when speeds are low and you aren't using suspension, or when there is a legal or administrative advantage to having three wheels instead of four. But they'll never be as compact, nimble, and versatile as a two wheeler, nor as stable as a (suspended) four wheeler.
 
Chalo said:
Have you ridden a trike? There are many reasons three wheelers aren't more common. They become decent choices either when speeds are low and you aren't using suspension, or when there is a legal or administrative advantage to having three wheels instead of four. But they'll never be as compact, nimble, and versatile as a two wheeler, nor as stable as a (suspended) four wheeler.
Click to expand...
Yes I understand the problem with suspension...exactly that is the thing I have solved now in my newest design. I made one that Elon Musk's hench men copied as their Cyber Truck....but the vehicle itself was lame and flaved ( looks was good )...that is why I published it...3 months before Tesla announced their new truck.

Still I see it is very hard to get it into the market place. Funding and all the fuss with certification.
 
topspeed said:
Yes I understand the problem with suspension...exactly that is the thing I have solved now in my newest design. I made one that Elon Musk's hench men copied as their Cyber Truck....but the vehicle itself was lame and flaved ( looks was good )...that is why I published it...3 months before Tesla announced their new truck.
Click to expand...
Would be interested to see these. Where have you published these things? (nothing found on ES for them?)
 
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