Trek teamed up with Bionx

mikefish

100 W
Joined
Apr 8, 2009
Messages
181
Location
Central Coast Caifornia
and made some nice looking electric bikes...still pricey (2300-2700), but nice :wink:

http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/electric_bikes/#

nice for those of us that love the electric biking, but are not too savvy on the whole electric part! :D

now to get the wife to agree on how much i want...errrr....NEED one! :lol:

Valencia_plus.png
 
Yes, nice and the best part is they come in a wide range of frame sizes so you're not stuck with a "one size fits all ebike". They don't mention the battery capacity anywhere; I suppose they figure the average person wouldn't know what Amp-hours were anyway. On the battery video the guy says 15-45km but in the FAQ it says as high as 45 miles but typically 30 miles using settings 2-3. Oh yeah the battery is only warranteed for 600 cycles (how do they know?) or 2 years, whichever comes first.



-R
 
it is annoying that they barely list any tech info.

i guess they assume people are not smart enough to know what any of that is!

i can not even find a total weight on the bike :(
 
They prob have a cycle counter in the bms somehow. What bionx really needs is a paralell connection port, so you can add non bionx battery capacity. They don't get it that to make an ebike truly practical transportation requires longer range at the top level of assist.
 
mikefish said:
it is annoying that they barely list any tech info.

i guess they assume people are not smart enough to know what any of that is!

i can not even find a total weight on the bike :(

I believe it's based on the new Sin Drive PL-350 with the new rear rack battery/light design. If you want the approx weight, it's the weight of the the normal Valencia + a PL-350. People who are buying this kind of bike is the same kind of people who buys a Macintosh or an iPod touch. They don't want to know how it works -- they simply wants to know if it works seamlessly. And it does. As a pedal assist system, the Bionx system is still the best system out there. I know as I have one and I've tested many other systems and none are even close, not one with Watts-up or Cycle Analyst!

DE.
 
dogman said:
They prob have a cycle counter in the bms somehow. What bionx really needs is a paralell connection port, so you can add non bionx battery capacity. They don't get it that to make an ebike truly practical transportation requires longer range at the top level of assist.

The Bionx bike system is not your average PC version of ebikes as it operates differently in terms of energy expenditure and conservation. It certainly isn't up to snuff on power and acceleration against some of the Chinese made geared or brushless motors available now. While we worry about LVC and Ah used either through Watts-Up or Cycle Analyst, the Bionx user is only presented with a battery graph indicator -- the fuel gauge. The range is probably similar to the PL-350, because I think it is the PL-350.

However, here is the problem I see with your assessment that to make an ebike truly practical transportation wise, its requirement should be long range at top level assist. There is no doubt the need for this is real to some of the people here, however, in general and I've talked to a bunch of people here in Vancouver that ebike is not only competing with cars, but with viable transit options. In some states and countries, transit coupled with an ebike is a more attractive option. The so called "last mile" connection between a transit stop to the destination in question, an ebike such as this fills the need perfectly. In fact, you really don't need to buy this bike -- a cheap folding bike with an electric assist would do nicely at a significant price savings!

The problem I see with an ebike that makes practical transportation is weight and size. Battery is heavy, motor is heavy too and the bike itself is heavy. Unless your workplace allows bike parking, you need to park your bike outside. And then, there's the elements. Rain, snow and high winds. In Vancouver alone and on bike paths I traveled, as soon as heavy rain sets in, you have a significant huge reduction of ridership willing to endure 6-20 miles of travel in the rain, wet, cold and miserable conditions with dump trucks splashing water on the sides. Wouldn't driving a car or taking a bus a better option?
What about the winter in some prairie provinces in Canada? Are you biking 20 miles in the middle of winter at -20 degrees or colder with the cold wind blasting right in your face while riding at top assist level!?! When the day turns in early during the winter and it rains, the investment you put into the bike and battery themselves aren't going to be used. People can not justify an transportation system that can only be used sometimes. They can only justify the system when it can be used almost all the time. Otherwise, why would you pay a 1 year gym membership if you're going to be using it 6 months out of the year?

It's all and good in you live in Florida or Arizona or even Nevada where the nice heat and somewhat dry climate helps. It's not so much so in the wet coast. The electric assist I see people use for here are only to commute less than 10 miles, the closer the better. I've met people who do commute much longer, like 100+ km with a Bionx system and a hand cycle. Some do grocery shopping with the Xtracycle option, making the "last mile" happen. Riding a bike whether electric or non-electric does not change the fact that it is still a bike. Otherwise, you'll see tons of 2 wheel motorbikes on the streets. The fact that and history has shown 4 wheel vehicles outnumbering 2 wheelers are not going to change the fact of the matter whether it is Bionx powered or Ping powered.

DE.
 
:?: :|

2700$ for an ebike without any suspension, 350W, and 345Wh only

I think it's a bit pricy

I've meet alot of people that meet some of my familly member that now have ebike i assembled with the 9C motor, ping 48V 15Ah battery and C-A that are jalous and want the torque of the 9C and want to abandon their BionXteach kit costed less than 2000usd and have 750Wh, 2000W power


BionX are great quality too but it's a bit pricy for the performance you get!

Doc
 
To get a motorbike performance, the Bionx kit is not it. I have a 9C as well and it beats my Bionx as expected. Is my Bionx bike then overpriced? The answer is a no, because looking at it prospectively, it is a pedal biased electric assist system that automatically provides assist without using the throttle. No system does that yet or as well as the Bionx. For people who claimed that they could do that with a Watts-Up or a Cycle Analyst is someone who does not own a Bionx system. It is truly fascinating for people who does not own a Bionx system to purportedly become experts in one!

DE.
 
dogman said:
People who are buying this kind of bike is the same kind of people who buys a Macintosh or an iPod touch.

I'm not usually one to necro threads, but I'm new to this forum, and this thread is already specific to what I was going to ask.

One of the issues holding me back from building my own bike, is that I'm > 250lb and a lot of the threads here indicate that the more power a motor has, the more likely it is to loosen and bend your spokes.
I called the local shop that handles my current road bikes, and they said they could not tension a bike with an electric hub in it.

I saw a post on craigslist from someone selling a Trek Valencia ( hence why I posted in this thread), and found that Trek does have a shop within 15 miles of me, and they have electric bikes in stock
I live in the Kansas City, KS Area.
they have a FX+ for $1600, I can order, and hopefully they do service on the wheels for loose spokes and all that.
http://trekbicyclestores.com/product/10trek-fx-59774-1.htm
So, I'm looking to see if anyone else has bought one of these and had any real problems with the spokes on the wheels, Or any other fat guys have any good advice on finding a place to handle the spokes?

I have an 8 mile each way commute, 100% on bike trails.
I can also take any part of that by bus if I wake up early enough, though the bus drops me off after 6.5 miles, leaving 1.5 to ride, which I do on my regular street bike now.



Thanks for any input.
 
It's not a bad choice if you're wanting to pay a premium for a premade solution. I'd suggest getting a $400 currie electric bike kit (available at amazon among others.) In a year or two you'll want to upgrade everthing, but in the meantime it's not a hub motor and will do the same job. Hopefully someone else will come up with something even better, but this at least is a choice to start with.

currie kit pros:
cheap
not a hub motor
you can get an extra lead battery for around $100 that fits the mount (can hold 2 at once)
you can buy lithium batteries for it (overpriced) or strip the lead out and build lithium batteries in the neat cases later

cons:
heavy lead acid battery (about 15 pounds vs. a 5 pound lithium battery)
short range (10-15 miles without adding or upgrading battery)
brushed motor (doesn't last as long as brushless)
if you upgrade the motor you'll have to upgrade the controller too
 
coplate said:
One of the issues holding me back from building my own bike, is that I'm > 250lb and a lot of the threads here indicate that the more power a motor has, the more likely it is to loosen and bend your spokes.

This is much less of a problem today than it was way back when. Spokes for hub motor setups are really good these days unless you buy an ultra, ultra cheap, no-name-brand chinese kit from a Chinese vendor.

I am 240lbs and so is my lady, We've had no issues with spokes, other than wheels needing truing at pretty regular intervals.

coplate said:
I called the local shop that handles my current road bikes, and they said they could not tension a bike with an electric hub in it.

They're lying to you. That's their way of saying that they don't want to deal with it. I've had 4 different shops in 2 different states true my wheels. I've came across some that said they couldn't do it. It does not require special tools or knowledge to do, so just take it as a sign that said shop isn't worthy of your $.

coplate said:
I saw a post on craigslist from someone selling a Trek Valencia ( hence why I posted in this thread), and found that Trek does have a shop within 15 miles of me, and they have electric bikes in stock

Seen that bike in person and rode it just for the hell of it.. slow bike, rattly rack, battery in a poor place for handling ( rear rack ) and for $1,700 used or old stock, it is not worth it. The parts are all proprietary too - that is the big turn off for me with the BionX system, aside from it's price and low power.

This is why many of us build our own bikes on here - you get a better bang for your buck when you do so. Do you have a nerdy bone in you? can you handle a soldering iron and learning some really, really elementary electric stuff? if so, check out my build threads in my signature. All my bikes are Treks. I'm 240lbs and build all my bikes for pedaling. You may be looking to go down the same route i have treaded.
 
dahon, you raise some very good points about commute lengths.

Yes, 10 miles is probably a fair distance at ebike assists speeds.

But come on! Doubling the battery would add 5lbs and mean you wouldn't ever have to worry about charging the battery.

It seems every company ever thinks that consumers would rather have their devices "slim" and "sexy" rather than have a useful battery life. And every one hates their devices because it's an endless battle to keep them charged. If ebikes are ever going to gain a foothold, the end user should never have to worry about the battery running dry. This is so easy to accomplish on an ebike.
 
^--- +1 +1 +1

Range anxiety's gotta go.. make the eBike more useful with more amp hours and suddenly it has more value and replaces more car miles :)

Also, those batteries of commercial bikes need to be in the center triangle. Can't believe how many of them are in the rear rack. I just did a super long ride with 14.5lb ( 36v/25AH ) of lipo in the center triangle.. you don't even notice it when you are riding. Put over 5lb on a rear rack and it will adversely affect your handling immediately.
 
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