TSDZ2 intermittent cut out under load - SOLVED

[korgua]

Good evening,

I built a 500W TSDZ2 48v-6pin a few years back and it worked flawlessly on several conversions. I recently put it back onto the original bike and I now get an intermittent, momentary cut out under load. It makes quite a noise, similar to when screw on cassettes tightened up under load. Cannot really ride it now as my mechanical sympathy needs to know how it can be cured.

The current battery has done under a few hundred miles - it is a Unit Pack Power 48v 7Ah with Samsung cells.

The controller does not have brake/throttle function.

Last time I took it apart there was no sign of water ingress - rarely used in the wet and always stored in doors.

Puzzling and other than swapping out parts can anyone advise what might be causing the cut-out?

Thank you

 

[neptronix]

7ah is extremely small, and now that it is colder in most areas ( dunno where you live, assuming north of the equator ), your lithium battery output will reduce

Does it happen progressively more as the battery gets discharged?
IE, for the first mile or two everything is cool, but then you get more cutouts?

 

[appaholic]

Good evening,

I built a 500W TSDZ2 48v-6pin a few years back and it worked flawlessly on several conversions. I recently put it back onto the original bike and I now get an intermittent, momentary cut out under load. It makes quite a noise, similar to when screw on cassettes tightened up under load. Cannot really ride it now as my mechanical sympathy needs to know how it can be cured.

The current battery has done under a few hundred miles - it is a Unit Pack Power 48v 7Ah with Samsung cells.

The controller does not have brake/throttle function.

Last time I took it apart there was no sign of water ingress - rarely used in the wet and always stored in doors.

Puzzling and other than swapping out parts can anyone advise what might be causing the cut-out?

Thank you

It's inherent in the TSDZ2 unfortunately. It's due to Tongsheng putting out a pce of shit motor & components. My advice is cut bait, save the frustration and buy something else. This is just the beginning. Ive done two successful builds which lasted 3 years. My wife's is still working (for now). But mine started like yours. Ive tried everything, including a new motor...nada. i currently have two motors, three controllers, 4 displays and 1 non-working bike. Seriously, go buy something else...Tongsheng is junk...

 

[korgua]

7ah is extremely small, and now that it is colder in most areas ( dunno where you live, assuming north of the equator ), your lithium battery output will reduce

Does it happen progressively more as the battery gets discharged?
IE, for the first mile or two everything is cool, but then you get more cutouts?

Thank you for the reply.

The cut-outs happen regardless of the temperature and state of charge. I am located 51.7520° N, 1.2577° W - temperatures have been 70+ and will cool to 50 for the rest of the month.

335Wh is more than enough for what I need the bike to do, the larger battery I had ruined the handling, the only fitment I can get on this machine is an underslung bottle holder.

 

[korgua]

It's inherent in the TSDZ2 unfortunately. It's due to Tongsheng putting out a pce of shit motor & components. My advice is cut bait, save the frustration and buy something else. This is just the beginning. Ive done two successful builds which lasted 3 years. My wife's is still working (for now). But mine started like yours. Ive tried everything, including a new motor...nada. i currently have two motors, three controllers, 4 displays and 1 non-working bike. Seriously, go buy something else...Tongsheng is junk...

Thank you for the reply.

That's a shame as there really is nothing complicated about an electric motor. Given your experience I am loathed to spend money on swapping out components.

I was thinking it might be a fault with the battery BMS in that it could not deliver enough amps but I have not got an alternative battery to test.

 

[endlessolli]

It's inherent in the TSDZ2 unfortunately. It's due to Tongsheng putting out a pce of shit motor & components. My advice is cut bait, save the frustration and buy something else. This is just the beginning. Ive done two successful builds which lasted 3 years. My wife's is still working (for now). But mine started like yours. Ive tried everything, including a new motor...nada. i currently have two motors, three controllers, 4 displays and 1 non-working bike. Seriously, go buy something else...Tongsheng is junk...

I can not agree to this. I and my family have 6 TSDZ2‘s and they run happily since years.
Especially for the price they are great. Plus every piece within the motor is available as a (cheap) spare part.
Wrt the problem reported by the thread starter:
Does the motor completely cut out - i.e. no sound from the motor? Or does the motor run , but you feel no support?
If it is the 1st, I have no clue - sorry. If it is the second, then the tiny sprag-clutch within the blue gear is malfunctioning. Either replace it or 1st try to clean the sprag-mechanism (get rid of oil / grease in that area).
Good luck!

 

[korgua]

@endlessolli - what steps do you recommend I take to try and find the root cause of the intermittent cut outs?

 

[endlessolli]

@endlessolli - what steps do you recommend I take to try and find the root cause of the intermittent cut outs?

See my prior post - you must have written your question while I was still writing my post

 

[korgua]

See my prior post - you must have written your question while I was still writing my post

See my prior post - you must have written your question while I was still writing my post

I can not agree to this. I and my family have 6 TSDZ2‘s and they run happily since years.
Especially for the price they are great. Plus every piece within the motor is available as a (cheap) spare part.
Wrt the problem reported by the thread starter:
Does the motor completely cut out - i.e. no sound from the motor? Or does the motor run , but you feel no support?
If it is the 1st, I have no clue - sorry. If it is the second, then the tiny sprag-clutch within the blue gear is malfunctioning. Either replace it or 1st try to clean the sprag-mechanism (get rid of oil / grease in that area).
Good luck!

The cut-out is so momentary that I would not know if the motor cut out as the "bang" drowns out the motor noise. The way I would describe the noise is when a worn chain slips a tooth.....which makes me think the sprag-clutch would be a likely candidate. Thanks for the advice.

 

[endlessolli]

The cut-out is so momentary that I would not know if the motor cut out as the "bang" drowns out the motor noise. The way I would describe the noise is when a worn chain slips a tooth.....which makes me think the sprag-clutch would be a likely candidate. Thanks for the advice.

The cut-out is so momentary that I would not know if the motor cut out as the "bang" drowns out the motor noise. The way I would describe the noise is when a worn chain slips a tooth.....which makes me think the sprag-clutch would be a likely candidate. Thanks for the advice.

Just to be clear: The fault should be in the little sprag-clutch within the blue gear. That is the one which engages the motor. (not the big sprag-cluch integrated in the biggest metal gear plate. That one engages your pedaling force)
Good luck and let us know the outcome!

 

[neptronix]

Thank you for the reply.

The cut-outs happen regardless of the temperature and state of charge. I am located 51.7520° N, 1.2577° W - temperatures have been 70+ and will cool to 50 for the rest of the month.

335Wh is more than enough for what I need the bike to do, the larger battery I had ruined the handling, the only fitment I can get on this machine is an underslung bottle holder.

Yeah i feel like this probably rules out the battery.
I'll let people who understand this drive better help you with the rest!

 

[docw009]

If the battery cuts out, the display would probably shut off.

The cutoff is like a slipping tooth? Are sure that's not happening? I installed both a BBS02B and a TSDZ2B this year. I had to install a new chain to cure the slipping problem on the Bafang.

 

[korgua]

I have now replaced the blue gear and the larger sprag clutch CSK30P and the 'slipping' issue is still happening, neither replacement has made any difference. The problem is exactly like the one in the video

 

[korgua]

If the battery cuts out, the display would probably shut off.

The cutoff is like a slipping tooth? Are sure that's not happening? I installed both a BBS02B and a TSDZ2B this year. I had to install a new chain to cure the slipping problem on the Bafang.

Quite possible considering I have now swapped out both bearings on the TDSZ2, I am going to swap the chain and 8 speed cassette with some SRAM components.

 

[korgua]

If the battery cuts out, the display would probably shut off.

The cutoff is like a slipping tooth? Are sure that's not happening? I installed both a BBS02B and a TSDZ2B this year. I had to install a new chain to cure the slipping problem on the Bafang.

Swapped out the chain for a new SRAM PC830 - made no difference. Kept the PC830 chain on and swapped out the cassette for a new SRAM PG850 - the problem was solved. Old cassette is not old or worn but swapping it out cured the problem.