TSDZ2 Versions - ECU possibility

[pedalfettal]

Does anyone know/think/agree that I could put a pre-2022 ECU into the version 2?

If so then it might be worth getting the version 2 for the low-pedal resistance and then replace with older ECU for the OSF firmware capability.


My notes on TSDZ2 versions:

TSDZ2 version 1
- to June-2022:
- 36V and 48V
- CSK30P Sprag clutch (aliexpress £20, wychbearings £20)
- ECU has red beans parallel with mosfets (aliexpress £26)
- OSF firmware possible
- Earliest versions had two cartridge bearings on crank-shaft non-drive-side
- TSDZ2B refers to trick brake version

TSDZ2 version 2
- from July-2022:
- 36V and 48V
- Proprietary Tongsheng sprag clutch
- ECU red beans perpendicular to mosfets
- Firmware locked
- Seen advertised as TSDZ2B and TSDZ2H

 

[pedalfettal]

Prompted by:

- E-S: "New" TSDZ2 with "old" controller? https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=112110

Question changes to:

Does anyone know/think/agree that I could put a pre-2020 ECU into the new version 2?

- If so then it might be worth getting the version 2 for the low-pedal resistance and then replace with older 2020 ECU for the OSF firmware capability.


Also does anyone know/think/agree that I could put a pre-2020 ECU into the 2020 version 1?

- If so then it might be a means to use the OSF firmware on this version



Updated notes on TSDZ2 versions:

TSDZ2 version 1
- to June-2020:
- 36V and 48V
- CSK30P Sprag clutch (aliexpress £20, wychbearings £20)
- ECU has red beans parallel with mosfets (aliexpress £26)
- OSF firmware possible
- Earliest versions had two cartridge bearings on crank-shaft non-drive-side
- TSDZ2B refers to trick brake version

TSDZ2 version 1
- from June-2020:
- 36V and 48V
- CSK30P Sprag clutch (aliexpress £20, wychbearings £20)
- ECU red beans perpendicular to mosfets
- No OSF Firmware available

TSDZ2 version 2
- from July-2022:
- 36V and 48V
- Proprietary Tongsheng sprag clutch
- ECU beanz unknown
- Firmware status unknown
- Seen advertised as TSDZ2B and TSDZ2H

 

[Elinx]

.... it might be worth getting the version 2 for the low-pedal resistance and then replace with older 2020 ECU for the OSF firmware capability.
....
Updated notes on TSDZ2 versions:

....

TSDZ2 version 1
- to June-2020:
etc.

TSDZ2 version 2
- from June-2020:
- 36V and 48V
- CSK30P Sprag clutch (aliexpress £20, wychbearings £20)
- ECU has red beans parallel with mosfets (aliexpress £26)
- or ECU red beans perpendicular to mosfets (by Enerprof)
- OSF firmware possible
- or No OSF Firmware available (by Enerprof)

TSDZ2 version 3
- from July-2022:
- 36V and 48V
- Proprietary Tongsheng sprag clutch
- ECU beanz unknown
- Firmware status unknown
- Seen advertised as TSDZ2B and TSDZ2H

It isn't clear what ECU is inside version 3, also the size of it is unknown.
There are some rumours it will be Canbus
But if I see the description of Tsdz2B there are only mechanical changes.
In that case the ECU could be still the same old flashable one too.
Someone must be the first to see this.

 

[tr8]

Someone must be the first to see this.

I ordered a TSDZ2B from PSW at the beginning of the week and installed it yesterday.
The engine could be flashed normally with the Mbrusa firmware.

So it seems to be the old controller.

 

[Elinx]

....TSDZ2B from PSW ...........
....flashed normally ...........
So it seems to be the old controller.
.....

Thank you very much for this confirmation.

Question:
I understand the chain adapter, cq spider is another size too.
What about the size of the rubber dustseal?
Is this still 15 mm x 28 mm x 7 mm

 

[tr8]

What about the size of the rubber dustseal?
Is this still 15 mm x 28 mm x 7 mm

Yes, the same dust seals are used. I replaced the seal on the right side (in the spider) with a 6902RS bearing. On the left side I added the same bearing behind the dust seal.

 

[Elinx]

...
Yes, the same dust seals... replaced the seal on the right side (in the spider) with a 6902RS bearing. On the left side I added the same bearing behind the dust seal.

That's exactly the reason why I ask :wink:
Thanks again

 

[pedalfettal]

@tr8:

Great news about the flash-ability of the latest model.

Are you able to offer a comparison of the freewheel of your new unit versus a previous version?

 

[tr8]

comparison of the freewheel of your new unit versus a previous version?

I am using it to replace a 5+ year old TSDZ2 (with straight gears) whose transmission has been getting a little noisy lately. The old motor is now used as a "spare parts supplier".

Since the gearbox is no longer engaged when pedaling without engine assistance, the difference in noise is most noticeable to me.

I can't judge how much easier it is to pedal with the new TSDZ2B without motor assist. At the moment you can still feel that the new seals are not yet broken in.

 

[paulas]

Just installed my 2nd tsdz2 motor. (B?) The needle ratchet gear failed. Too delicate replaced it with blue gear. Began to make similar, pre-failure noise and I bought the new motor. The old ofs v1.1.0 didn't work with the new motor. It now has latest version: 9 assist levels, all programmed for an invalid ( way too much power). Bit by bit I am customizing. I wish I had the settings from v.1.1.0. Those were given in one value: .005 was lowest for assist #1. New version has ability to set : power, torque, and cadence. I think I should turn cadence to 0.
Does anyone know how the v1 was determined? The present settings eats up battery . With v1, riding 40 miles, I used 80%; now I use 50%.
Thanks for any help.

 

[Blacklite]

Just installed my 2nd tsdz2 motor. (B?) The needle ratchet gear failed. Too delicate replaced it with blue gear. Began to make similar, pre-failure noise and I bought the new motor. The old ofs v1.1.0 didn't work with the new motor. It now has latest version: 9 assist levels, all programmed for an invalid ( way too much power). Bit by bit I am customizing. I wish I had the settings from v.1.1.0. Those were given in one value: .005 was lowest for assist #1. New version has ability to set : power, torque, and cadence. I think I should turn cadence to 0.
Does anyone know how the v1 was determined? The present settings eats up battery . With v1, riding 40 miles, I used 80%; now I use 50%.
Thanks for any help.

I'm assuming you're using the Emmabrusa 20.1C4 version? Have you read the manual? It explains all the settings and how the power is calculated. The Cadence, Torque, and Power settings each apply only to the mode they are in as this firmware has selectable modes for how the power delivered is calculated. I like the hybrid mode that uses a greatest takes precedence conjunction of Power and Torque modes. The cadence settings will only be used when you are in cadence mode, so no need to set them to zero.

 

[chefi1]

Maybe somebody might be interested in transform Tsdz2 in Tdsz2b. I bought this kit: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...t_main.29.6d831802esBJ0o&gatewayAdapt=glo2deu.
Was relatively easy to change it, with instructions of dismanteling on Youtube.
I can still not say if it has less resistance than the old clutch. But it feels a bit smoother. It is no problem to go for 20km on flat land without switching the motor on (20-25km/h). With assitance (OSF-hybrid mode on level 2, emmebrusa version TSDZ2-v20.1C.2-update-2 VLCD5) I make 35 to 40 km/h. Short sprints up to 45 km/h are also possible - but here in Brazil (allowed are 32 km/h - which is already more reasonable than 25 in Europe - but there are no controls). If I go to work I have to go up 500 m of 12% to 16%. I can do it easily with a speed about 11 to 15 km/h.
It is a 30 year old trekking bike from Fahrradmanufaktur in Germany, with a 10 year old nuvinci N380 gear hub. The chainring in front has 42t and back 16t.
I did not change the blue gear jet, because it is still ok after about 2000 km.
(the kit is available also with the white gear included)

 

[dzid_]

Maybe somebody might be interested in transform Tsdz2 in Tdsz2b. I bought this kit: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/100...t_main.29.6d831802esBJ0o&gatewayAdapt=glo2deu.
Was relatively easy to change it, with instructions of dismanteling on Youtube.

Is white gear interchangeable with blue gear then?

It seems that the white gear doesn't have an integrated one-way clutch for the motor:

So if you have TSDZ2B version of the main gear (with two one-way clutches) and blue gear which which also has a one-way clutch,
then the blue gear one-way clutch is redundant and when the motor is off it is not slipping because the main one will be slipping.


Is there a need for this special tool at all?

 

[chefi1]

Is white gear interchangeable with blue gear then?

It seems that the white gear doesn't have an integrated one-way clutch for the motor: View attachment 336970

So if you have TSDZ2B version of the main gear (with two one-way clutches) and blue gear which which also has a one-way clutch,
then the blue gear one-way clutch is redundant and when the motor is off it is not slipping because the main one will be slipping.


Is there a need for this special tool at all?

It is not necessary to change the old blue gear. It has the same format than the white gear. The motor does not need the integrated one-way clutch within the blue gear anymore, it is detached. So you can go on using it as a gear, but it looses the function of the clutch. Works without problems. I will keep the white gear until the blue gear is finished, one day.. But, of course, it is impossible to replace ONLY the blue gear of the old tsdz2 with the white gear of Tsdz2b.
There is a special tool to take the big gear off, but it is not necessary. I followed these instructions:

after about minute 3:00.

 

[dzid_]

But, of course, it is impossible to replace ONLY the blue gear of the old tsdz2 with the white gear of Tsdz2b.

Well, it might be beneficial in some scenarios to replace only white gear.
One of the sources of torque delay is that we have to wait for the motor to accelerate to match pedals speed. By using white gear in old tsdz2, we would be initially accelerating the motor with our legs. This would also immediately create some load on the torque sensor so the motor would start assisting immediately. This would be beneficial for MTB rides.

I was trying to reduce this delay in the software already, but I haven't finished yet. I was also trying to add better protection against blue gear overrunning, by cutting power when slip is detected. Mine already started to slip and it's only getting worse.

Also, I don't think blue gear I need to replace the slipping blue gear with the white one. I think I can add glue to it to seize the clutch.

The only disadvantage of course is when I run out of the battery, then it will be pretty hard to pedal.