Volcon Brat

[Meii]

No. Don't be fooled; they won't let you share the lane. Also that specially-abled motorcycle won't do 45mph speed competently even 'roided out.

By my napkin sketch reckoning, 30mph will take about 1750W electrical, and 45mph will take over 5000W electrical to hold on level ground. Optimizing for one speed will impair efficiency at the other. Timely acceleration to either speed will require more juice than holding that speed. So if you want 45mph, plan for like 7kW electrical. (Or don't, because your bike will suck.)

Cojones and smarts are a lot cheaper and lighter weight than brute force. Either one will help, if you don't have access to the other.


Nope. But it would be a waste of drachmas if you could.

What's a drachmas?

 

[nicobie]

What's a drachmas?

Money

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

Going beyond the price of the leaf bike kit with shipping. You will also need a battery....and a good torque arm.

I would go with this torque arm even if not using Regen:

V7 Regen Torque Arm 14mm

V7 Torque Arm with Machined Clamping Block for Regen Hub Motors. Fits M14 Axles in both Front and Rear Installations.

ebikes.ca

Solid machined clamping block of hardened 17-4 stainless steel

Grade 12.9 bolts apply over 1500 pounds of clamping force to axle flats

11mm thickness ensures maximum engagement

Splined arm interface for versatile for axle alignment with front and rear motors

Deep 'J' curve provides access to fender and rack eyelets

All stainless steel for excellent corrosion resistance

Designed, tested, and manufactured in Canada

 

[neptronix]

No. Don't be fooled; they won't let you share the lane. Also that specially-abled motorcycle won't do 45mph speed competently even 'roided out.

By my napkin sketch reckoning, 30mph will take about 1750W electrical, and 45mph will take over 5000W electrical to hold on level ground. Optimizing for one speed will impair efficiency at the other. Timely acceleration to either speed will require more juice than holding that speed. So if you want 45mph, plan for like 7kW electrical. (Or don't, because your bike will suck.)

Hol' up, i got real world numbers on this motor.
30mph = under 1000w ( efficiency sweet spot )
45mph can happen on about 4000w with max effort pedaling and a massive chainring.

Motor will need some additional cooling help in order to hold 45mph for longer than a few miles. 40 mph for long stretches works, 27.5-30 mph is the sweet spot for range.

You WILL need dual torque arms on this motor, it's a beast. I don't recommend a 4T ( default winding ) unless you have a battery a lot more capable than what leafbike sells.

Beware this bike is a cop magnet and looks more like a motorcycle without a license plate than a bicycle. I wouldn't recommend going over 30mph and getting a massive enough chainring to pedal all the time ( >= 60T ) because this bike is high profile AF

I assume is 45mm stator as compared to the 35mm stator as found on the 1500 watt leaf bike kit).

I wouldn't assume that, the 1.5kw motor is more like a 2kw motor in reality. Could be the same motor dimensions. Ask leafbike

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

I wouldn't assume that, the 1.5kw motor is more like a 2kw motor in reality. Could be the same motor dimensions. Ask leafbike

Looking at the direct drive motor diagrams on the leaf bike website the 2000 watt, 2500 watt and 3000 watt all share the same dimensions. The 1500 watt is distinctly different from the 2000 watt to 3000 watt range.... as is the 750 watt direct drive and 1000 watt direct drive which are different yet again from the 1500 watt motor.

 

[neptronix]

I could be wrong but you should ask.

A wheel significantly smaller than a 26" will produce more than 2000w continuous easily.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

I could be wrong but you should ask.

A wheel significantly smaller than a 26" will produce more than 2000w continuous easily.

I agree asking is the only way to be certain (the diagrams could be wrong)....but for the record the kits I looked at in the 2000 watt to 3000 watt range were indeed 20".

In fact, I just noticed now there is also a 5000 watts 20" kit that also uses the same motor as the 2000 watt to 3000 watt kit:

20 inch 2000W ~ 5000W high power rear hub motor - bike conversion kit

Convert your 20 inch original fat bike with leaf 20 inch high power 48V 60V 72V 2000W 3000W 4000W 5000W 6000W 7000W 8000W rear beach snow hub motor electric bike conversion kit.

www.leafbike.com

So I'm thinking the 2000 watt probably does use the wide stator since they scale the motor up to 5000 watts.

 

[Meii]

No. Don't be fooled; they won't let you share the lane. Also that specially-abled motorcycle won't do 45mph speed competently even 'roided out.

By my napkin sketch reckoning, 30mph will take about 1750W electrical, and 45mph will take over 5000W electrical to hold on level ground. Optimizing for one speed will impair efficiency at the other. Timely acceleration to either speed will require more juice than holding that speed. So if you want 45mph, plan for like 7kW electrical. (Or don't, because your bike will suck.)

Cojones and smarts are a lot cheaper and lighter weight than brute force. Either one will help, if you don't have access to the other.


Nope. But it would be a waste of drachmas if you could

For note, 45 is an escape speed (1-2 minutes) not an average. I've been on a road bike cycling for over 12 years, as my daily commute in San Diego and Singapore, and have become pretty confident and aware on the share roads, both demanding space and maintaining distance from jerk whom jerk. I understand people are just that tho, there's risk with everything. The speed and capacity is to mitigate for risk.

I regularly hit and maintain 33 with 28 up slight hills on the Brat, stock drive train. I hit 43 pretty comfortably on a hill 3-4 times this year old brakes didn't like it, but neither did my road bike (Braking to a stop on the hill for a controlled left turn). Most my DD roads here are 30mph with flow at 35~ and San Diego drivers are comparatively pretty relaxed in general.

In terms of efficiency ranges, 0-15 are of minimal concern, I enjoy putting in some pedal power off the line, and manually adjust my tail to be stiff at 0-15 and softer when the throttle takes over. 25-35 is about where I want my money at, I'm usually either ahead on online with lead foots through intersections.

I understand and appreciate you concern for safety regarding riding in the road and with cars and I agree, experience, awareness, and speed appropriate safety gear are my risk mitigation plans.

Also I'm retired, it's this or booze, and I don't want a beer gut at 36.

 

[Meii]

Meii, I know you mentioned your improved (over stock) aerodynamics in post #16 but you might also consider the 2500 watt kit or 3000 watt kit as they both appear to share the same motor as the 2000 watt kit (which I assume is 45mm stator as compared to the 35mm stator as found on the 1500 watt leaf bike kit).

I just like riding Aero 6% efficiency gain is nothing to joke about. I will toss 2500 onto the list. Thank you.

 

[Meii]

I agree asking is the only way to be certain (the diagrams could be wrong)....but for the record the kits I looked at in the 2000 watt to 3000 watt range were indeed 20".

In fact, I just noticed now there is also a 5000 watts 20" kit that also uses the same motor as the 2000 watt to 3000 watt kit:

20 inch 2000W ~ 5000W high power rear hub motor - bike conversion kit

Convert your 20 inch original fat bike with leaf 20 inch high power 48V 60V 72V 2000W 3000W 4000W 5000W 6000W 7000W 8000W rear beach snow hub motor electric bike conversion kit.

www.leafbike.com

So I'm thinking the 2000 watt probably does use the wide stator since they scale the motor up to 5000 watts.

I'm reading and reading, but could this also have to do with the diameter of the windings? Bigger hose for power to flow without becoming fire?

 

[Meii]

Money

thank you. that's new to me.

 

[Meii]

Going beyond the price of the leaf bike kit with shipping. You will also need a battery....and a good torque arm.

I would go with this torque arm even if not using Regen:

V7 Regen Torque Arm 14mm

V7 Torque Arm with Machined Clamping Block for Regen Hub Motors. Fits M14 Axles in both Front and Rear Installations.

ebikes.ca

View attachment 350827

could you please link me to a youtube that explains what the heck I'm looking at here? Thank you for the heads up about neat looking things

 

[neptronix]

So I'm thinking the 2000 watt probably does use the wide stator since they scale the motor up to 5000 watts.

Hmm i just looked at this diagram and the diagram shows something more like a Cromotor or QS.
My bad, i looked at the images at the top and didn't scroll further. The images look a lot like the 35mm motor with a 135mm dropout.

I would definitely ask about which motor you are actually getting if you order that item.

 

[Meii]

Hol' up, i got real world numbers on this motor.
30mph = under 1000w ( efficiency sweet spot )
45mph can happen on about 4000w with max effort pedaling and a massive chainring.

Motor will need some additional cooling help in order to hold 45mph for longer than a few miles. 40 mph for long stretches works, 27.5-30 mph is the sweet spot for range.

You WILL need dual torque arms on this motor, it's a beast. I don't recommend a 4T ( default winding ) unless you have a battery a lot more capable than what leafbike sells.

Beware this bike is a cop magnet and looks more like a motorcycle without a license plate than a bicycle. I wouldn't recommend going over 30mph and getting a massive enough chainring to pedal all the time ( >= 60T ) because this bike is high profile AF

View attachment 350829



I wouldn't assume that, the 1.5kw motor is more like a 2kw motor in reality. Could be the same motor dimensions. Ask leafbike

--which motor, sorry.

You're absolutely correct. The Laws here are interesting. BUT, there's a legal limit on mopeds regarding 4 hp, (about 3000 watts) so with a little luck, an ebike ignorant dmv employee, and a 23 one time fee for the moped plate. If worst comes, I'll get it registered as a moped and still pedal my happy butt around town. The MSC is free for me for an M endorsement and I still wont need further registration/insurance just *wont be able to use the freeways*. With these two hands and a laser engraver, I'll have a motor rated for 750w nominal lol. From observation and cop buddies, there's a general "don't be an asshat" and "Looks like a surron/dirtbike" mindset in the enforcement community. I'm too old to be the kid doing a wheelie at 30mph wizzing past traffic.

 

[Meii]

I appreciate all the input from everyone. thank you all very much! Also I got 2 more pos.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

I appreciate all the input from everyone. thank you all very much! Also I got 2 more pos.
View attachment 350833

I love that windscreen. Where do you get it?

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

I would definitely ask about which motor you are actually getting if you order that item.

Agreed. Good advice indeed.

 

[Meii]

Thank You, They are super helpful, kinda wish I went a little taller/ tinted on mine to look through, but my comfortable aero position puts my eyes just over the shield.

 

[neptronix]

You're absolutely correct. The Laws here are interesting. BUT, there's a legal limit on mopeds regarding 4 hp, (about 3000 watts) so with a little luck, an ebike ignorant dmv employee, and a 23 one time fee for the moped plate.

Have you ever done that before? because moped registration requires a VIN and i imagine that's pretty hard to get out of because that's what the DMV uses to track vehicles.

 

[Meii]

Have you ever done that before? because moped registration requires a VIN and i imagine that's pretty hard to get out of because that's what the DMV uses to track vehicles.

Nope, but we have kit car laws in place too. I have taken vins be salvaging wrecked vehicles before though. I can't imagine it being too different. When it comes to it, I'll probably know more lol.

 

[neptronix]

I'm just saying nobody has successfully done this in the 14 years i've been here, maybe don't bank on it!

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

could you please link me to a youtube that explains what the heck I'm looking at here? Thank you for the heads up about neat looking things

These two links explain the need for torque arms:

Torque Arms - Grin Products - Product Info

For every force there is an equal and opposite force, and for every torque there is an equal and opposite torque. Sadly with import hub motors this opposing torque is often born entirely by bicycle dropouts that are not up to the task, allowing the motor axle to spin out. Grin has pioneered the...

ebikes.ca

What is a Torque Arm and Why Do I Need One

www.ebikeschool.com

 

[Meii]

I'm just saying nobody has successfully done this in the 14 years i've been here, maybe don't bank on it!

Bored x gov't employee, there's normally a way for almost anything you can think of. People either don't know or don't want to help. Finding the guy or gal at the DMV that rides an ebike and is interested in sometimes the make or break moment. Hopefully the process is same similar as linked in the DMV. More a function of tenacity than legality.

Specially Constructed or Modified Vehicle Registration - California DMV

Register a specially-constructed or modified vehicle (built for private use and not constructed by a manufacturer for resale) with the California DMV

www.dmv.ca.gov

 

[neptronix]

Well good luck!

 

[Meii]

These two links explain the need for torque arms:

Torque Arms - Grin Products - Product Info

For every force there is an equal and opposite force, and for every torque there is an equal and opposite torque. Sadly with import hub motors this opposing torque is often born entirely by bicycle dropouts that are not up to the task, allowing the motor axle to spin out. Grin has pioneered the...

ebikes.ca

What is a Torque Arm and Why Do I Need One

www.ebikeschool.com

So, I will attach pictures later. It looks like due to the unique nature of the rear end of the frame. I would need to design and fabricate torque arms. However, there does appear to be a specialized washer with a depression that acts as a type of torque nut to distribute the load to about 20 mm in lieu of the initial 10 mm diameter bolt/reduced slot. I'm pretty confident I can use the same cutout and make an arm out of some steel that fits the same space.