Votol EM-100 & EM-150 controllers

[larsb]

No torque issues, last post i noted I have considerably more torque at -60, I was just wondering if I was missing something, but -120 is probably more accurate either way.

If you get considerably more torque at -60, then this is normally the best setting. Loss of torque equals loss of efficiency. Why would -120 be better?

 

[Oldspot]

I have a em-200sp (wrong forum I know), I am loving the programming discussions,
However as per previous posts, I am finding it impossible to connect my controller to the software
I thought the Bluetooth would help but it has now been suggested,I must set up on pc first.
So can anyone ( right back at the beginning) give me some advice how to connect,
If I plug the usb in connect to the right com port, and press open it says connected, is this true?
The e-lock is switched on, the motor runs, forward and reverse, dkd display shows gears and revs.
But the controller “abnormal, no response, it’s driving me nuts!

 

[BareKuda]

No torque issues, last post i noted I have considerably more torque at -60, I was just wondering if I was missing something, but -120 is probably more accurate either way.

If you get considerably more torque at -60, then this is normally the best setting. Loss of torque equals loss of efficiency. Why would -120 be better?

We need more details about what was wrong with -60 that made him set -120. I hope not because he was caught in the most common trap “my motor is 120 degree motor so u must set 120 somewhere.”

But it does seem common for inrunners to use -120, 0, 120 and. Hub motors -60, 60, 180

 

[remyglass]

so I just freaked out a little because I thought I broke my em 150/2

earlier today I connected to the computer running version 2.32 of the programming software (didnt realize this wasnt the correct version) and changed the current percentage for my low speed from 50 to 35. I saved the setting and closed the program and everything seemed to work fine. Then an hour ago I decide to change that same parameter back to 50..using the same version of the software 2.32. Well after writing the parameters and restarting the controller I got nothing when I twist the throttle..tried my low medium high speed switch ..nothing.
I took screen shots earlier today of each settings page so I looked and verified that every setting was the same as it was before...but still couldnt get anything out of the throttle.

..after pulling my hair out for a while I found a newer version of the debugging software , 2.33
so I connect to the controller using this new version and see some new settings for throttle input voltage and torque settings...but all of the boxes are zeros. I looked in the user manual and plugged in the numbers that they had in the manual, wrote the parameters..and ITS BACK. so I was extremely relieved..but still wondering why I was able to change the setting with the old software one time but after doing it again it stopped working. I have no idea what the original values for the throttle voltage and torque rise etc were because my screen shots are from the old software that didnt have these settings ..

so apparently the moral of the story is make sure you have the latest debugging software version if you have a new votol controller

 

[Oldspot]

I have a em-200sp (wrong forum I know), I am loving the programming discussions,
However as per previous posts, I am finding it impossible to connect my controller to the software
I thought the Bluetooth would help but it has now been suggested,I must set up on pc first.
So can anyone ( right back at the beginning) give me some advice how to connect,
If I plug the usb in connect to the right com port, and press open it says connected, is this true?
The e-lock is switched on, the motor runs, forward and reverse, dkd display shows gears and revs.
But the controller “abnormal, no response, it’s driving me nuts!

Ok wrong usb cable, the first thing I bought months ago, (what a muppet I am) thanks ors15.

 

[Paulflieg]

so I just freaked out a little because I thought I broke my em 150/2

earlier today I connected to the computer running version 2.32 of the programming software (didnt realize this wasnt the correct version) and changed the current percentage for my low speed from 50 to 35. I saved the setting and closed the program and everything seemed to work fine. Then an hour ago I decide to change that same parameter back to 50..using the same version of the software 2.32. Well after writing the parameters and restarting the controller I got nothing when I twist the throttle..tried my low medium high speed switch ..nothing.
I took screen shots earlier today of each settings page so I looked and verified that every setting was the same as it was before...but still couldnt get anything out of the throttle.

..after pulling my hair out for a while I found a newer version of the debugging software , 2.33
so I connect to the controller using this new version and see some new settings for throttle input voltage and torque settings...but all of the boxes are zeros. I looked in the user manual and plugged in the numbers that they had in the manual, wrote the parameters..and ITS BACK. so I was extremely relieved..but still wondering why I was able to change the setting with the old software one time but after doing it again it stopped working. I have no idea what the original values for the throttle voltage and torque rise etc were because my screen shots are from the old software that didnt have these settings ..

so apparently the moral of the story is make sure you have the latest debugging software version if you have a new votol controller

The "2.32" is the firmware version of the controller.... Not the version of the debugging software.

 

[remyglass]

so I just freaked out a little because I thought I broke my em 150/2

earlier today I connected to the computer running version 2.32 of the programming software (didnt realize this wasnt the correct version) and changed the current percentage for my low speed from 50 to 35. I saved the setting and closed the program and everything seemed to work fine. Then an hour ago I decide to change that same parameter back to 50..using the same version of the software 2.32. Well after writing the parameters and restarting the controller I got nothing when I twist the throttle..tried my low medium high speed switch ..nothing.
I took screen shots earlier today of each settings page so I looked and verified that every setting was the same as it was before...but still couldnt get anything out of the throttle.

..after pulling my hair out for a while I found a newer version of the debugging software , 2.33
so I connect to the controller using this new version and see some new settings for throttle input voltage and torque settings...but all of the boxes are zeros. I looked in the user manual and plugged in the numbers that they had in the manual, wrote the parameters..and ITS BACK. so I was extremely relieved..but still wondering why I was able to change the setting with the old software one time but after doing it again it stopped working. I have no idea what the original values for the throttle voltage and torque rise etc were because my screen shots are from the old software that didnt have these settings ..

so apparently the moral of the story is make sure you have the latest debugging software version if you have a new votol controller

The "2.32" is the firmware version of the controller.... Not the version of the debugging software.

1.13 is the version of the controller..2.32 Is the version of the software

 

[Paulflieg]

:lol:

 

[dpequad]

No torque issues, last post i noted I have considerably more torque at -60, I was just wondering if I was missing something, but -120 is probably more accurate either way.

If you get considerably more torque at -60, then this is normally the best setting. Loss of torque equals loss of efficiency. Why would -120 be better?

We need more details about what was wrong with -60 that made him set -120. I hope not because he was caught in the most common trap “my motor is 120 degree motor so u must set 120 somewhere.”

But it does seem common for inrunners to use -120, 0, 120 and. Hub motors -60, 60, 180

what appears to me is that in -60, the controller was pulling max amps and the BMS cut it, even when busbar current & sport mode current was set at 30A.
also, at -60 motor sounded rougher and not as smooth as in -120.
testing at -60 with load, little easy reversing caused throttle to get "stuck" and motor kept spinning. this hasn't happened with load at -120.

I first tried 30 degree jumps from -180 - +180, tested with load each option. -120 felt smoothest and quietest.

 

[BareKuda]

I first tried 30 degree jumps from -180 - +180, tested with load each option. -120 felt smoothest and quietest.

I think you have it paired right. You can try +/-10 degrees from -120 to see if it helps but my experience the hall sensor decoder will just tell the controller which of the 6 commutation steps the motor is on and the controller uses some magic to get the exact timing right.

It doesn’t seem to work like a car distributor where advance or retard actually changes the timing.

 

[Emoto]

HI can someone direct me to the peak amp duration on the em50 ..im hoping 60seconds+
I know its 55 cont and 190 peak but cant find the peak duration so far.
Has anyone tested it.

 

[neowizard]

Hi.

I'm trying to hook up a mystery 6kW 14" hub motor to EM30p after my original Sevcon controller died. The goal isn't to actually use the motor with this controller. I get that EM30s is hopelessly underpowered for it. I ordered it just to test whether I can get my motor running with a Votol.

At first the Votol had an issue where the hall-sensor harness had the V+ and GND wires mixed up (WTF Votol?), and then I had to solve a couple of faults (mostly hooking up a throttle) and set the PC15 port to no-function (as advised by SIA's rep).

I'm now stuck. SIA won't help me since I'm not running a QS motor. The app is a complete cluster-frock and I can't make heads or tails of it.

When I throttle up, I can hear some very light humming from my motor and the status line changes to "RUN" from "IDLE", but nothing else (no spin, no current and no resistance when I spin the motor manually). If I spin it manually, the controller reads the RPM (seems accurate, but hard to tell), and the the "Regen" radio-box turns on. I have no faults listed.

Attaching my app screens (don't mind that hall-shift angle, I'm just testing a bunch of values to see if anything changes). Any help would be appreciated.

P.S. Forgot to mention, when I short any two phase-wires, I get significant resistance to spinning the motor. I think the windings are OK. I also tested the hall sensors, though since the controller reads RPM, I think that's not in question.

 

[Paulflieg]

If your motor doesn't have 120° Hall sensors, but, as I suspect, an encoder output.... It won't work like that

 

[BareKuda]

HI can someone direct me to the peak amp duration on the em50 ..im hoping 60seconds+
I know its 55 cont and 190 peak but cant find the peak duration so far.
Has anyone tested it.

The specs are a bit unclear but the 55a is the busbar limit and the 190a is the peak phase wire current. Thats why you won’t find a time for peak as you would in a motor which has mass and takes time to heat up.

If you exceed busbar current limit you risk letting thw magic smoke out of the Votol and it stops working if that escapes. Lol

 

[BareKuda]

Hi.

I'm trying to hook up a mystery 6kW 14" hub motor to EM30p after my original Sevcon controller died. The goal isn't to actually use the motor with this controller. I get that EM30s is hopelessly underpowered for it. I ordered it just to test whether I can get my motor running with a Votol.

At first the Votol had an issue where the hall-sensor harness had the V+ and GND wires mixed up (WTF Votol?), and then I had to solve a couple of faults (mostly hooking up a throttle) and set the PC15 port to no-function (as advised by SIA's rep).

I'm now stuck. SIA won't help me since I'm not running a QS motor. The app is a complete cluster-frock and I can't make heads or tails of it.

When I throttle up, I can hear some very light humming from my motor and the status line changes to "RUN" from "IDLE", but nothing else (no spin, no current and no resistance when I spin the motor manually). If I spin it manually, the controller reads the RPM (seems accurate, but hard to tell), and the the "Regen" radio-box turns on. I have no faults listed.

Attaching my app screens (don't mind that hall-shift angle, I'm just testing a bunch of values to see if anything changes). Any help would be appreciated.

P.S. Forgot to mention, when I short any two phase-wires, I get significant resistance to spinning the motor. I think the windings are OK. I also tested the hall sensors, though since the controller reads RPM, I think that's not in question.

For one thing, the phase current limit needs to be left at 9000 or 9960 or whatever it was. While i never messed with mine, some say if you set it too low it wont run.

Are you sure its 28 pole pairs on a 5kw hub motor? Seems high.

You should check the HDC enable box and later once its running you can adjust the 290 rpm up to the speed you want.

You say you are trying different hall shoft angles but the motor just hums not runs. After setting phase current limits back to default, you need to pair the controller to the motor.

With hall and phase wires all color matching. Hall shift at default of -60, and hall and phase wire exchange boxes both unchecked, try to run the motor.

If the motor only hums, check “exchange hall wire” box. It should spin, either quiet or noisy, forward or reverse. As long as it spins its ok to go to the next step. If it still just humming you have a problem.

If spinning quietly in correct direction, its paired. If spinning noisy in either direction, change hall shift to 60 degrees and test. If noisy try 180. (Hall shift angle can be -180 to +180, not 181.

If still noisy yoi can try every angle from -120, -60, 0, 60, 120, 180 and one of those should work. Ignore direction of rotation as you try different hall shift angles.

After you get it running quiet and smooth, if it’s running correct direction, its paired, if it’s running backwards, change BOTH checkboxes for phase and hall wires. This will likely make it noisy again. Just try the different phase angle shift again till its quiet. This time when its quiet it will be in the correct direction.

This is the factory hall wiring for the em-30s
I cut mine off because i didn't have the mating connector. But as long as all colors match between controller and motor hall and phase, it can be paired from the software.

 

[neowizard]

For one thing, the phase current limit needs to be left at 9000 or 9960 or whatever it was. While i never messed with mine, some say if you set it too low it wont run.

Sounds like a solid advise, but my USB adapter must've died. I get an error on my PC when I plug it in (even when disconnected from the controller). It would fault-out often (had to disconnect from both PC and controller and reconnect), so I guess it finally kicked the bucket. Or maybe the controller surged at it when I was probing the hall leads with my scope and spinning the motor by hand. I don't know and I don't think I'll buy a new adapter since I don't know if the controller is also faulty now. It's still responding to e-lock and generating 5V for the hall-sensors, but I don't know about the rest of it.

Are you sure its 28 pole pairs on a 5kw hub motor? Seems high.

Tested by energizing across two phase wires (6A @ <1V), and manually cogged the motor 1 full rotation. Had 28 "steps". From what I can understand, that indicates 28 pole pairs. Doesn't it? I also tried setting pole-pairs to lower values (23, 15 and 5) with no change.

Anyways, as far as I can tell, my Votol experiment is a failure. The app was a disaster, the USB adaptor was worse, the controller was poorly made (lucky it didn't burn my hall-sensors with the V+ and GND being reversed on the plug) and the overall experience was not great. I'm getting a Fardriver ND84530 this week to see if that ends up better.

 

[BareKuda]

Sounds like a solid advise, but my USB adapter must've died. I get an error on my PC when I plug it in (even when disconnected from the controller). It would fault-out often (had to disconnect from both PC and controller and reconnect), so I guess it finally kicked the bucket. Or maybe the controller surged at it when I was probing the hall leads with my scope and spinning the motor by hand. I don't know and I don't think I'll buy a new adapter since I don't know if the controller is also faulty now. It's still responding to e-lock and generating 5V for the hall-sensors, but I don't know about the rest of it.

There’s no power from the votol to the debugging cable. Possible the controller fried. I guess you already tried reinstalling the driver.

Tested by energizing across two phase wires (6A @ <1V), and manually cogged the motor 1 full rotation. Had 28 "steps". From what I can understand, that indicates 28 pole pairs. Doesn't it? I also tried setting pole-pairs to lower values (23, 15 and 5) with no change.

Yes. Seems good

Anyways, as far as I can tell, my Votol experiment is a failure. The app was a disaster, the USB adaptor was worse, the controller was poorly made (lucky it didn't burn my hall-sensors with the V+ and GND being reversed on the plug) and the overall experience was not great. I'm getting a Fardriver ND84530 this week to see if that ends up better.

Are you sure your motor didn’t have the wires reversed? Your votol was wired differently than the pictures i sent? Anyway hall wires can be pulled out if the connector to either match the motor to the controller of the control to the motor.

I bet the controller is fine, not sure about the usb cable. The PC software and controller firmware is definitely a mess. But you cant buy a 35a programmable controller for the price of the EM-30s that comes anywhere close to what that controller cost.

Hopefully the fardriver works better.

 

[Emoto]

The specs are a bit unclear but the 55a is the busbar limit and the 190a is the peak phase wire current. Thats why you won’t find a time for peak as you would in a motor which has mass and takes time to heat up.

If you exceed busbar current limit you risk letting thw magic smoke out of the Votol and it stops working if that escapes. Lol

I see 190 is phase but votol.net give a peak dc amp [Boost ] for the em-100 @130 @ 48-60v but no duration for boost.
So ill guess 70 dc amp boost for the em-50.

 

[BareKuda]

The specs are a bit unclear but the 55a is the busbar limit and the 190a is the peak phase wire current. Thats why you won’t find a time for peak as you would in a motor which has mass and takes time to heat up.

If you exceed busbar current limit you risk letting thw magic smoke out of the Votol and it stops working if that escapes. Lol

I see 190 is phase but votol.net give a peak dc amp [Boost ] for the em-100 @130 @ 48-60v but no duration for boost.
So ill guess 70 dc amp boost for the em-50.

The problem is you dont know if that is a 2 millisecond surge limit or 5 minutes. And where can you set it in your controller to give boost current for 5 minutes? It seems you need to set sport mode to the maximum current you want but it wont stop automatically before something burns.

 

[Emoto]

BareKuda true .... some controllers have a overheat protection where they auto roll back the power in this instance..
If we at least knew this sport / boost duration we could at least manually stay under that.
I wonder if this has some sort of protection in the firmware that we dont know about , only way is to ask qs or voltol.

 

[KiefRichards]

So I just got my bike running with a qs138 v3, em-150-2, and 300a capable 20s lipo.
In short, it’s massively underwhelming. It takes off from
a stop so slowly. I was expecting a lot more power, even with stock settings.
I can’t feel any difference when sport mode is on or off. I’ve installed a switch for sport mode on the connector with the brown wire, but like I said, I can’t feel any difference on or off. The documentation the seller sent shows the brown wire being “backup” on the em150-2. That’s in addition to “reverse” on another connector. I asked the seller (Harry@qs) about this and he responded saying “it came programmed”.

Am i doing something wrong? Is the brown wire not sport mode on the em150-2? I wish I could datalog with the controller. I feel like im flying blind. Help!

 

[BareKuda]

So I just got my bike running with a qs138 v3, em-150-2, and 300a capable 20s lipo.
In short, it’s massively underwhelming. It takes off from
a stop so slowly. I was expecting a lot more power, even with stock settings.
I can’t feel any difference when sport mode is on or off. I’ve installed a switch for sport mode on the connector with the brown wire, but like I said, I can’t feel any difference on or off. The documentation the seller sent shows the brown wire being “backup” on the em150-2. That’s in addition to “reverse” on another connector. I asked the seller (Harry@qs) about this and he responded saying “it came programmed”.

Am i doing something wrong? Is the brown wire not sport mode on the em150-2? I wish I could datalog with the controller. I feel like im flying blind. Help!

If you can ride with your laptop connected and on the display screen you can see the amps being pulled when accelerating.

Looks like your brown wire is one of the extra ports thst can be used for any ON/OFF function, such as low speed, high speed, sport mode, high brake, etc. But you need to know which port is associated with the brown wire and set it to sport mode if that is what is connected.

If its working you will see it on the display page if its in sport mode when you switch it on.

As far as what sport mode does on that controller i don't know. In theory it would override the 3-speed settings which have speed and torque limits, and let your motor pull all the amps you set in sport mode, which would give max torque.

You also have flux weakening and flux compensation to tune but that shouldn’t affect off the line torque.

 

[KiefRichards]

Thanks for the reply. I was able to connect to my laptop and made a few changes. In the display screen I checked some bubbles for park, regen, then noticed I couldn’t uncheck the bubbles. Now my controller is inop and has the following error message. I hope i didn’t break it already.
Anyone know what this could mean?


Edit: I see it could be related to my “throttle voltage set” values. For some reason they are all .02 volts for all values. Not sure why but that doesn’t sound right.

 

[KiefRichards]

so I just freaked out a little because I thought I broke my em 150/2

earlier today I connected to the computer running version 2.32 of the programming software (didnt realize this wasnt the correct version) and changed the current percentage for my low speed from 50 to 35. I saved the setting and closed the program and everything seemed to work fine. Then an hour ago I decide to change that same parameter back to 50..using the same version of the software 2.32. Well after writing the parameters and restarting the controller I got nothing when I twist the throttle..tried my low medium high speed switch ..nothing.
I took screen shots earlier today of each settings page so I looked and verified that every setting was the same as it was before...but still couldnt get anything out of the throttle.

..after pulling my hair out for a while I found a newer version of the debugging software , 2.33
so I connect to the controller using this new version and see some new settings for throttle input voltage and torque settings...but all of the boxes are zeros. I looked in the user manual and plugged in the numbers that they had in the manual, wrote the parameters..and ITS BACK. so I was extremely relieved..but still wondering why I was able to change the setting with the old software one time but after doing it again it stopped working. I have no idea what the original values for the throttle voltage and torque rise etc were because my screen shots are from the old software that didnt have these settings ..

so apparently the moral of the story is make sure you have the latest debugging software version if you have a new votol controller

Im having the exact same issue. I connected and it zeroed out my torque and throttle settings. Where did you find the 2.33 software? Mine shows 2.32. Thanks!

 

[remyglass]

Im having the exact same issue. I connected and it zeroed out my torque and throttle settings. Where did you find the 2.33 software? Mine shows 2.32. Thanks!

http://www.siaecosys.com/list/?classid=21&page=1

click on votol controller software 2021 to download it
( I think I was mistaken when I said that I had ver 2.33..now it seems to show 2.32 as my version, not sure where I thought I saw 2.33)

for the throttle settings I used these numbers I got from the manual
the torque settings are preference..I have since lowered these to 100 and still pulling the front wheel off the ground.
If you are underwhelmed by the torque I suspect your rate of rise is probably set at like 50..or possibly even less. This can be set as high as 250 as far as I know..Rate of decline is how fast the motor decelerates. Once you load the new version of the software you should be able to change these torque values and it will make all the difference.