Want suggestions for cargobike with large mid-mount motor

[SafeDiscDancing]

Has anyone done something like this?

Basically a recumbent trike with side pods for cargo.

I'd love to hear more about this idea, perhaps in another thread.

I'm mulling a plan to build one or two off-road fat tadpoles for overnight camping in places accessible via jeep trail or fire road. Not strictly cargo bikes, but they would need lots of battery and space for backpacking gear.

It seems like "someone" must have done "something" similar "somewhere".

The logical progression is to get the cargo lower to the ground.

I did an image search and did not find a match though... so you never know... maybe no one has tried it yet?

Add batteries in the pods low to the ground.

Maybe if there is a lot of surface area add solar everywhere you can.

With solar you would need one controller (I forget the acronym... PPT or something) for each flat surface. So maybe one on each side one in back and one on top. Then make them all work in parallel not series so if one side is getting good sun and the other is in the shade you don't wreck your power gains. They are pretty cheap I think... maybe $20 a piece. Solar panels are about $100 per 200 watt sheet... something like that. You could probably get sustained power of 400 watts on a good day.

Done right and you could travel great distances with a lot of cargo.

My urge would be to build the entire thing starting with foam sheets then wrap it with fiberglass like a surfboard. Then the wheels are attached off this monocoque type body... more like a car. Heck, you could go full carbon fiber if you don't mind outrageous costs.

But a well thought out thin walled small tubular frame built right could work too. Cromoly is better steel and warps less.

 

[SafeDiscDancing]

Okay... so recumbent, trike, cargo, solar and can swim in the water too. :lol:

Combine everything into one vehicle.

 

[simonov]

I'm thinking about starting with a KMX.

But that's all a subject for another thread, since this isn't a cargo bike.

 

[SafeDiscDancing]

I'm thinking about starting with a KMX.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51873&start=100

Fat Tires.

Just add side pods and you are a cargo bike.

 

[MoneyPit]

My point is
<snip>
That's my opinion, but it doesn't come out of nowhere.

Well, I'll ignore the arrogance and focus on the equipment. You have misdiagnosed the issue.

Steering linkage has no bearing on the problem - at least not with the LvH Bullitt you had trouble riding and which I own and ride daily. The reason there is a learning curve is: you have a front wheel 5 feet ahead of the rider. Putting the wheel that far forward - with the rider essentially running the show in a caboose - means you have a different steering experience thanks to the frame design. Think on this for a second and you should understand how that front end moving so far ahead of you can require different steering inputs. Very noticeable until you get used to it, and then its like it never existed.

And guess what happens when you ride a frontloader for a week, then switch back to a normal bicycle? The normal bicycle is terrifying: its wobbling all over the place. Does it have some sort of mechanical flaw? Is it a bad design? Of course not. But its wobbly as hell anyway. Until you get used to it and its not. This is all learned behavior that is different solely because its different. Not because one or the other is somehow a bad design.

Frontloaders are so popular in the EU where they originated because they carry the load low and centered, between the wheels. Stability is uncompromised in any way as a result. Carrying 125 lbs in that Bullitt vs. the same amount in either a mid tail or a longtail: the difference in ease of use is profound.

https://talesontwowheels.com/2021/10/30/midtail-longtail-or-frontloader-which-cargo-bike-do-i-choose/

There ARE 3-wheeled versions of frontloaders out there. 2 front wheels. I saw one from a French or maybe an Italian company recently that tilted in turns. Pretty slick.

 

[MoneyPit]

Talking about frontloaders and their load capacity/stability reminded me of a project that is actually right up the alley of the original poster, with enormous load capacity.

The group who did the work on this is known as "Anywhere Berlin" and they developed a monster frontloader that uses dual direct drive hubs and fat tires/wheels. It has a reported load capacity (not total capacity ... load capacity) of 160kg. Thats for the 3rd world version. These bikes were designed to be assembled from very basic tubing in 3rd world shops by volunteers with basic skills.

Videos here, including pics of the thing carrying a pair of 2-ft wide tree trunks that are 3 feet long each and report the load is 175kg.

http://anywhere.berlin/path-ology.html

Their section on the large tubing version made in Africa:

http://www.anywhere.berlin/africa.html

Maybe they'll part with a set of plans since they're giving this project away already? Most of the web stuff is old but their Facebook group has current posts in it.

They have image controls on most of their online stuff so I can't post pics. But the original made in a German workshop looks quite slick. Looks like a couple of QSv3's power it.

 

[john61ct]

Thanks, that approach is right up my alley, suitable for when most of us are all back in "third world" conditions.

 

[amberwolf]

They have image controls on most of their online stuff so I can't post pics.

Some pics grabbed off the links provided; if there is a specific pic you want here let me know; it's easy to get around most of the "image controls" people use.

 

[amberwolf]

The reason there is a learning curve is: you have a front wheel 5 feet ahead of the rider. Putting the wheel that far forward - with the rider essentially running the show in a caboose - means you have a different steering experience thanks to the frame design.

Until I built the SB Cruiser trike, I had planned for a long time to build the Barkfiet:
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=43328
which went thru a number of design ideas, including a trike version, and even a very long version with an 8foot-plus long cargo area to carry building materials on, with trussed cargo sections that would slide into each other so it could be half that length (or anything in between) until needed.

Once I built the SBC, I didn't need most of the capabilities of the Barkfiet, and then I fixed up a trailer that let me haul bigger stuff (piano, hundreds of pounds of dog food, etc) for the rare occasions I need more capacity than the trike can do (since the trike also has a rack on the top I can carry long items that aren't more than a few dozen pounds).

I still think about making the Barkfiet, someday. Just because.

 

[SlowCo]

Thanks, that approach is right up my alley, suitable for when most of us are all back in "third world" conditions.

Great you found a design you like. Will you use this thread or start a new build thread for your project...? :lol:

 

[john61ct]

Mind your own business Slow, do as I like I will and if you want to contribute constructively great but stop the stupid sniping.

If you stay out of my threads odds are much better I will find the time to participate more.

 

[MoneyPit]

They have image controls on most of their online stuff so I can't post pics.

Some pics grabbed off the links provided; if there is a specific pic you want here let me know; it's easy to get around most of the "image controls" people use.

Awesome. Thx! I did a little more google image searching and found one of the earlier German-origin prototypes that use the big tubes was posted here in 2017. Here:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=89705

Now that I can see them side by side, the black one is clearly shorter than the 'production' grey one above.

I was talking to them a little bit via Cargo Bike Republic, years ago. I think on the prototype that preceded this one. It used twin Bafang G060 fat geared hubs. I have a bike using the same motors and controllers and we corresponded a little on how fast/powerful the combination was. Looks like they went to dual DD motors which makes sense for their application. At the time they were considering doing local USA builds and ... I wanted one . But they went a different direction with the 3rd world thing. The G060 bike was a raw finish and they entered it at least once in the annual Berlin Cargo Bike Race.

The pictures you show with the exception of the African-built grey one are a later design I think. Much more complex frame. I *think* that one is slated for commercial production someday.

In more recent years they have abandoned the fat bike rims they were using and gone to a form of motorcycle rim tire size is listed on the African page). Reportedly there was too much trouble with the double-wall rims they were using, as well as flatting, which is a disaster on a bike sized like this. I have addressed the weight/strength issue with 90mm triangular/deep dish carbon fiber rims because of their 250kg rating, but thats damned expensive.