waterproofing connections

[Joppo]

its warm in north norway for once and i got some water in my connections and the bike started to jump. i guess its som kind of electrican problem, what are you guys waterproofing your connections with?

 

[drsolly]

Duct tape

 

[Punx0r]

Pack the connectors with silicone grease (or even Vaseline)

 

[Ykick]

Pack the connectors with silicone grease (or even Vaseline)

This, and in some cases use section of old inner tube and wire ties to seal connectors from water.

 

[mateusleo]

I never tested it, but i've seen some pictures of people making their boards and connections waterproof with liquid eletrical tape. Just look for it on ebay. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Performix-L...302?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ece8d5856)

Pics:

 

[miro13car]

silicone and more silicone :lol:
But seriously connections on serious ebikes and ekits are rainproof already like this one DELPHI brand:

http://delphi.com/manufacturers/cv/connection-systems/metri-pack-connectors/

 

[dogman dan]

Actually, silicone sucks. Assuming you need to seal the back end of connectors, the stickiest product I have ever seen is a specialty caulk intended for rain gutters. It sticks to plastics better than anything, including butylene caulk. Silicone just peels off eventually.

Obviously you don't want to glue the plugs together, but you might consider eliminating some plugs and going to soldered connections, or relocating plugs into a waterproof box. For that, you might need to lengthen the wires coming out of the controller.

 

[newschoolnerd]

I'm thinking about picking up some of these Sure Seal Connectors. They seem like they will do the trick pretty well, anyone have any experience with them?

 

[spinningmagnets]

Those "sure seal" connectors look nice. Similkar to "Weather Packs" which are made for boats, RV's, etc

http://www.whiteproducts.com/connectors.shtml

 

[999zip999]

I use cheap hot glue on the wire side of connections then shrink tube. I guess I could add cheap hot glue there. Cheap hot gule because you can peel it off. Rain gutter glue if you don't want to take it apart.

 

[friendly1uk]

Gutter stuff as in mastic? That stuff never sets and gets everywhere. It ruins fabric as it won't wash out.

I don't have connectors open to the weather by choice, but my motor demanded it (or opening up) so I used a bit of grease. It was already waterproof though, Or I would of opened the motor to change the flex completely.

 

[teklektik]

I'm thinking about picking up some of these Sure Seal Connectors. They seem like they will do the trick pretty well, anyone have any experience with them?

Those are Delphi Weather Pack connectors. Sadly, they are very large connectors and IMHO look huge and out of place on a bike. This is way overkill.

 

[miro13car]

ABsolutely they DELPHI Weather Pack they are not.
They are not Dephi brand.
Of course DELPHI connectors have a place on ebike, of course they are bigger than flimsy powerpoles and other cheap stuff.
If you look carefully they have locks , I dont know what "loose connector" is on my ebikes, I dont know what water in connector is ,they are solid as rock.
So they are must be bigger.

 

[liveforphysics]

Those connectors are not bad if you have the pin crimping tool.

 

[Joppo]

i was thinking Vaseline but was not sure if it was conductive, electrical grease is so expensive here. vaseline is cheap tho.
got plastidip but its not so good for this job.

 

[teklektik]

ABsolutely they DELPHI Weather Pack they are not.
They are not Dephi brand.
Of course DELPHI connectors have a place on ebike, of course they are bigger than flimsy powerpoles and other cheap stuff.

Yes - you are quite right - these are not Delphi - I mistakenly followed SM's link instead of the original SureSeal link. My remarks about size were aimed at the Delphi connectors - there is no doubt they will work, but the question is: what is the problem and what is an appropriate solution?

Phase connections are high amps and largely unaffected by water, ebrakes and halls are digital and not as susceptible to a little signal bleed. The common controller-ignition-wire kill switch carries Vbatt and must supply many ma to operate, so water is not much of an issue there. The analog throttle connection is the most susceptible to catastrophic failure (e.g. WOT) due to water or (Gnd) disconnect and should arguably be the focus of attention. This is not to say that issues cannot develop with the other connectors, but the standard tin plated connectors, proper crimping/wire size, and a little Permatex dielectric grease (auto parts stores) should do the job most of the time. Ensuring that high voltage phase/Vbatt connectors are not bundled with low voltage throttle/hall/ebrake connectors seems advisable.

Disconnects from corrosion is a derivative but different problem than immediate failures from water. It may be worth considering that if a connector cannot be sealed 100% forever, that it will eventually leak. Once water is in, it will have a hard time getting out (because of the sealing) and so will sit and corrode the connector/wiring. There is something to be said for not sealing some connectors at all and simply positioning or loosely shrouding them to keep them out of a deluge - leave them open so they can dry quickly and naturally.

I use the 'cheap stuff' in rain and snow and have no issues with water, loose connections, or other connector failures - this is not what I would use in competition, but for my application, just fine... My connectors are all open and unsealed.

Interestingly, there is no particular evidence that the OP's failure was connector-related at all - an assumption. It is just as likely that it was water incursion in the throttle assembly itself, in which case connector sealing/replacement will prove an ineffective solution and the problem will likely re-occur.... In that case, opening the throttle and coating the exposed hall leads and wiring with Liquid Lectric Tape (Home Depot, etc) will probably be more helpful.

 

[Ykick]

i was thinking Vaseline but was not sure if it was conductive, electrical grease is so expensive here. vaseline is cheap tho.
got plastidip but its not so good for this job.

I've been using Vaseline instead of dielectric grease and really no difference from what I can tell.

I discontinued using any grease on APP main power lead connector (battery-controller) since they serve as my power switch and any form of grease, wax and/or oil tends to intensify and fuel "spark" when controller caps charge. This is also the "main disconnect" so I do not want this connection locked in the event I need to quickly power off during a panic situation.

I primarily waterproof (grease + rubber sleeve) the motor hall/phase connections and throttle connectors, if any. That's about it on my bike(s).

Genuine waterproof connector stuff looks great but an awfully large package and likely require some specific tooling. I'm not building a mass produced factory vehicle - I'm just trying to get back/forth to work using a 60lb eBike.

 

[dogman dan]

Re the gutter seal stuff.

The special gutter caulk I refer to will dry, but remain very flexible for a long time. It's main virtue is that it will stick to polyethylene and pvc that silicone will fail on, and tolerates the heat found on metal gutters.

Hot glue is similar to silicone, not really that sticky. I fail to see how just a good diligent wrap with ordinary electric tape is much different than hot glue or silicone. I just tape it if I want a removable seal. But bear in mind, if it rains here we run outside and dance like we found a gold mine. In a really wet climate, I'd want to relocate the plugs into a water resistant box or bag with drip loops. Just keep 99% of the water out. If I need to ride in the rain, I just put a baggie over my plugs and tape it on. Then remove it to dry later, since rain doesn't last around here.

The caulk that never dries and can become a gooey nightmare is real 100% butylene caulk. It is not for rain gutters, it's for glazing windows. A non professional construction worker might use silicone or butylene for rain gutters, but a pro will use the special gutter caulk.

A crappy hardware store may suggest using butylene or silicone on gutters. But they are wrong.

 

[teklektik]

I've been using Vaseline instead of dielectric grease and really no difference from what I can tell.

Ya - I would agree.

Permatex dielectric grease is silicone-based and (presumably) insoluble in water/gasoline/petroleum environments. For a few bucks and with wide availability at auto stores, I figure I'll go with an existing automotive product instead of silicone lube - which would be my second choice for an inert grease.

That said, electronic connector (JST) contacts make a gas-tight seal when inserted and so displace whatever grease is used. The grease is present to surround the mating surfaces and prevent corrosion from encroaching into the mating area and lifting the contacts apart with a layer of resistive oxidized material.

From this perspective and the absence of petroleum liquids on an ebike that might dissolve petroleum jelly, Vaseline is certainly 100% effective.

 

[ferret]

If you have accesses to automotive wiring harness (from a junkyard or similar) you can find many types of waterproof connectors in different sizes.
Find a suitable connector male-female pair, cut the harness the desired distance from the connector (the harness wires themselves are usually high quality).
When soldering the wires, use heatshrink tubing and/or liquid electrical tape to waterproof the joint.

 

[miro13car]

ferret
As far as I know automotive harnesses rearly use AWG 10 size wire and this is the problem

 

[miro13car]

can assure you
DELPHI
waterproof they stay,
I have two Delphi connectors on my winter ebike - TIDAL FORCE which I ride in harsh Canadian winter and there is no way they can be penetrated by water unless smashed.
Again like with everything quality comes quality material like real rubber seals, /no cheapy substitutes/ and precision plastic moldings.
Like with all quality everyting devil is in details.
Of course they require proper installation , crimping but I believe Delphi manufatures solder versions also.

 

[nechaus]

I prefer to get small boxes to hold the connectors in and have waterproof containers

 

[ferret]

ferret
As far as I know automotive harnesses rearly use AWG 10 size wire and this is the problem

I agree. This approach won't work for battery wires. It is suitable for most other e-bike wiring; halls, throttles, switches, Cycle Analyst etc.

 

[Obiwan007]

A couple weeks ago Tench talked me throught the technique he uses for connections. I call it the Tench t-bar. It can be found here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=39489&start=25
And it looks like this:



I am sure this connection method would be water tight and the techniques could be used in other configurations. Check it out.