My First Ebike
100 mW
it's definitely doable with a stick it just takes some practice and tuning.
Welding e-bike frame from scratch. Questions about the swing arm.
- Thread starter My First Ebike
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classicalgas
100 W
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- May 14, 2016
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You'll need to deal with scratch start if you do that, which is a bit of PITA, but doable. With real TIG machines (with hi freq start and pulse) so cheap now, scratch start is just another skill that can be frustrating to learn solo. I worked in a couple shops decades ago where the new welders were expected to use old, scratch start (conversions from stick) machines. Without exception, when they graduated to a decent , "real" TIG machine, their weld quality went up noticeably, and I often heard "this is so much easier!!!"
So far as consumables cost...
get a flow meter, and set it at about 15 CFM or a bit less, and get a mini gas lens...that will cut your gas use way down. You wont have a gas valve on the DC power supply, so turn your gas off when not actually welding. Or buy a retrofit TIG kit.
Get a cheap low power cordless drill , and chuck your electrodes in that when sharpening. Hold the electrode near the tip with a cloth glove, and walk the electrode across the grinding wheel so you don't get grooves. Get a wheel dresser to keep it sharp and smooth.
My First Ebike
100 mW
Thanks for the tips.
marka-ee
100 W
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- Mar 24, 2020
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- 173
The one huge plus I found with TIG welding is that you can actually see what you're doing more easily both while welding and then also after you finished laying some beads because the work is not covered by a messy layer of flux. And then when you chip away the flux you discover that your welding was completely hopeless. With TIG you are not blind. The same flux problem works with gasless MIG welders because it has the same principle of trying to use flux to shield the weld from oxidation. It's also fairly hopeless to use because you really can't see what you do very well and then afterwards it's the same problem. You chip away the flux and you see that the weld left behind is crap.
Marka-ee
Only someone with damn little or no experience on stick or flux-core would bitch. Certified pipe welders have been successfully gluing miles of high pressure crud oil lines for decades with 7018. In an environment, no less, totally unsuitable for TIG.
Only someone with damn little or no experience on stick or flux-core would bitch. Certified pipe welders have been successfully gluing miles of high pressure crud oil lines for decades with 7018. In an environment, no less, totally unsuitable for TIG.
marka-ee
100 W
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Sure, I was referring to a beginner who might actually think he's laying a great bead down, but he's actually laying a great flux trail down, if you know what I mean.
classicalgas
100 W
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As I pointed out earlier, comparing pipe or shipyard welding to bike frame or racecar welding is silly. The relative advantages and requirements are completely different.
MIG is for laying down feet of bead per minute, where you have the machine dialed in for that particular situation. Hopefully, for critical joints you'll have done some test coupons, sectioned them, and tried to break them. Few amateurs MIG welding shit on utube do any of that. On bike frames, EVERY weld is critical.
TIG is for stuff you want reliably strong, pretty and spatter free, from the first weld to the last, and you'll just be running a couple inches of bead at a time.
MIG is for laying down feet of bead per minute, where you have the machine dialed in for that particular situation. Hopefully, for critical joints you'll have done some test coupons, sectioned them, and tried to break them. Few amateurs MIG welding shit on utube do any of that. On bike frames, EVERY weld is critical.
TIG is for stuff you want reliably strong, pretty and spatter free, from the first weld to the last, and you'll just be running a couple inches of bead at a time.
It takes less than 10 seconds to differentiate between the molten metal and the molten flux. Once realized, the swirling flux becomes a non issue, and is simply ignored.
I discourage TIG for beginners - for several reasons, but especially those tackling occasional home projects & repairs. The overwhelming metal being welded is steel, so TIG will see minimal usage. Most farmers will undoubtedly agree.
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The above statement (and most of your entire post #82) clearly exposes your ignorance W/GMAW (aka MIG):
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marka-ee
100 W
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- Mar 24, 2020
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Yes, I bought a flux cored MIG welder not too long ago and discovered that it takes about 10 seconds after I hit my weld with a small hammer to discover that the weld underneath the flux is actually not so good. Let's not even discuss the slag inclusion into the weld which can be a problem as well.I used to have a gas MIG welder, and it was a lot easier to use for me because I could see things more clearly even during the weld. And from my personal experience, I found that the flux core one was harder to use than CO2 shield gas version. I don't know if the article you referenced, which I read, was actually discussing Fluxcore MIG, because that's a relatively new thing, and I don't know if that's what they were talking about. However, they seem to be indicating production speed issues, which are obviously an advantage with MIG, but somebody building a hobbyist bicycle frame may not be interested in how many feet per second they can lay with the Mig weld. Wouldn't you agree? Just a note though, production factory built bicycle frames are built using TIG welding primarily. Even though it's a factory in China producing hundreds of frames per day.
Chalo
100 TW
Picking nits here, but the "IG" in MIG stands for "inert gas". So if you're using a flux core wire, it's not MIG (which is also called GMAW in the business). And it's not so good as gas shielded wire welding, like you noticed.
DaLanMan
10 kW
You call your welder Gmaw? and you make her weld still? isn't that like elder abuse?
The primary advantage of flux-core (FCAW) is welding in adverse conditions - such as outside job sites in breezy conditions. Depending on what wire you use, it is becoming more common for structural applications - bridges, ECT.
A big FCAW negative however, is the wire is much more costly than GMAW wire.
classicalgas
100 W
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It's clear you haven't a clue about TIG.
Or building bike frames.
I've been making a living as a metal fabricator and TIG welder for half a century, I do know what I'm talking about.
Most of the shops I've worked in had both types of machines, and did work that had to look good ( expensive custom lighting, craft blacksmith work, motorcycle luggage racks and high end custom railings ) Very often we'd try both techniques, and settle on TIG as faster (when raw material to end product, painted, was the test case)
TIG ALWAYS looked better, and most of our customers cared about that.
Elias lector
1 µW
I was going to chime in and say almost exactly what you did. I don't have nearly the amount of experience as you though. I can say this, I'm currently working on my 17th frame all have been full suspension aside from one. The first 3 were done using only flux core. I've had no cracks or breaks on any of them. My only issue was I wasn't using any type of jig so some initial twisting and misalignment that was quickly remedied once realized. I unfortunately just had to send my tig back and I'm awaiting it's replacement. Not sure why but I discovered 6 mosfets fried when all I would get was the hf start but no arc.
