What ebike or moped laws do you think need to be changed or passed?

[ebike4healthandfitness]

What ebike or moped laws do you think need to be passed or changed?

Here is what I think:

1. Adoption of the California standard of mopeds across all 50 states and Canada as well as Mexico. Currently most states have a power limit of only 1.5 or 2 HP for mopeds accompanied by a speed limit of either 25 mph or 30 mph. Since mopeds are a two person vehicle increasing to California's "under 4 HP" moped law would allow for much better climbing of hills when two adult passengers are on the moped.

Another advantage of California moped law is that if the moped is electric it doesn't have to have pedals.

2. Develop laws for ebikes that are pedal by wire. For example if a trained Athlete can put 2000+ watts (for a short time) through a single speed bicycle chain drivetrain then this needs to be factored into the total power rating of a class 1, 2 or 3 ebike's hub motor.

3. Change wording on current US ebike laws from "less than 750 watts" to "not more than 750 watts". (Under current law technically 750 watt is not legal, but 749 watts is).

 

[motomech]

Moped laws in Mexico?? There are barely any laws for 4-wheelers. I live part-time in Baja and ride my ATV on the street and it's not even plated.
As for the States, except for maybe Calif., I think you are about 5 years too late. I don't think many States really care about this stuff anymore. I spend the other part of the year in Tucson and the idiot progressive city law makers have defunded the police to the point they no longer enforce traffic laws, let alone "mopeds and Ebikes. Actually, I wouldn't mind if they went after the 30 mph plus, smokey and loud "Spookies".
I've been riding a 25 mph ebike here for 10 years and I've never even had a cop look at me, let alone stop me.
And if you think the US ebike standards are confusing now, get the Fed.s involved more and see what happens.

 

[Bigwheel]

Where I live and ride there is no one that cares either. However I do see a movement in the LEV space that may lead to a re-look at the MoPed rules?


"As E-Bikes Speed Up, a Policy Dilemma Looms
The newest electric bikes can go much faster than pedal-only riders, which could spur a backlash from pedestrians and a crackdown from regulators.

Read in Bloomberg: https://apple.news/Afu23OmjVTAWoBbNawbFgiA"

 

[dogman dan]

Change them all to the NEW Mexico law. There is no such thing as an e bike, but bikes with motors can go 30 mph, on whatever wattage that takes. Drivers license required for riding a home made, or factory built, moped.

E bikes which require no drivers license, IMO, should be limited to 25 mph except on downhills, but crowded sidewalks and MUP's should be limited to 15 mph. But still no wattage limit.

In short, Speed limits that vary by the situation. Just like all motor vehicles. My BMW does 130 mph with ease, but nowhere in the USA is that legal, unless you happen to own a few miles of paved road. I have to do 15 mph through the school zone just like everybody else. And when I do ride it fast, it's my risk of a ticket, as it should be.

And if the police don't care if I speed on the motorcycle, or in the car, why should they care about some complicated e bike law? F it they say. Just put up speed limits for places where the bikes, motorized or not, and mom with the baby carriage share the path. Then if mom squeaks enough, they will enforce it there, just like they do in the school zones.

 

[biphaeboh]

Change them all to the NEW Mexico law. There is no such thing as an e bike, but bikes with motors can go 30 mph, on whatever wattage that takes. Drivers license required for riding a home made, or factory built, moped.

E bikes which require no drivers license, IMO, should be limited to 25 mph except on downhills, but crowded sidewalks and MUP's should be limited to 15 mph. But still no wattage limit.

In short, Speed limits that vary by the situation. Just like all motor vehicles. My BMW does 130 mph with ease, but nowhere in the USA is that legal, unless you happen to own a few miles of paved road. I have to do 15 mph through the school zone just like everybody else. And when I do ride it fast, it's my risk of a ticket, as it should be.

And if the police don't care if I speed on the motorcycle, or in the car, why should they care about some complicated e bike law? F it they say. Just put up speed limits for places where the bikes, motorized or not, and mom with the baby carriage share the path. Then if mom squeaks enough, they will enforce it there, just like they do in the school zones.

That is the simplest solution.

In some jurisdictions motorcycles are regulated by cc. I think that is where the idea to regulate ebikes by motor wattage comes from, although it is not a perfectly analogous situation.

I can foresee a potential problem in off road areas. Pedal assist ebikes are limited to 30km/h in Alberta, but I have never seen a speed check for bikes on the trails. You often see Conservation Officers in the parking lots making sure that dogs are leashed and that people aren't drinking alcohol. When it comes to ebikes they are either allowed or not. I have never heard of them checking motor wattage or presence of a throttle.

They do love to give tickets though, so you don't want to make it too easy for them to do so.

 

[MadRhino]

Any bike that is not burning gas should have a free pass just like bicycles. They are the best solution for a healthier city, for air quality, lesser noise, lesser space, lesser cost for both the user and the city. We need to promote them, and regulations/restrictions are doing the exact opposite.

 

[goatman]

+1
and
raise the speed to 40mph/65km/h

 

[markz]

Alberta is passing some new laws for trail use.
https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/alberta-s-new-trails-act-met-with-mixed-reviews-1.5651271

 

[dogman dan]

To clarify what I meant a bit.

On the street, no limits to what you can ride, in terms of power levels or max speed limits. But its a street motorcycle, whether electric or not. Whether its got pedals or not. So its speed limit is the streets speed limit. Brake and headlights would be good, I suppose. But I totally agree, less rules not more. Make it easy to get legal, not impossible.

If you want to build a little motorcycle with pedals and splat yourself, go ahead. Get sued if you hit a pedestrian like a fool. But ride on the street, the same rules as cars and so on. You are NOT a bicycle if you make a little motorcycle.

But to ride on the sidewalk, multi use path, mountain bike trails, calling yourself a bicycle, then a max speed limiter on the system is needed. Coast down the hill fast as you want on the MTB trail, but power up it at max of 30 mph. Oh, sure, some can ride faster, but the majority cant pedal more than 30 mph for very far.

That's the New Mexico law. build it faster than 30 mph, you are not a bicycle anymore. Now you need the plate, the vin number, the lights. But if you build it slower than 30 mph, you can have all the horsepower you want, up to 5 hp which is plenty for a "bike" 3750 watts.

Then as needed, speed limits on trails or sidewalks. 15 mph max for a sidewalk, multi use path, etc. Where mom and the baby carriage are. In some places, single track trails need to be one way. This way is up, the other way is down, at 50 mph. You can come down the up way, slowly, but don't get in the way on the fast, steep, downhill run.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Behavior should be limited, not performance.

An 18 year old who has just gotten their license can legally buy a Hellcat with 700-HP, but...if he speeds, he will get a speeding ticket. Mopeds should be the same.

The 28-MPH speed limit for unlicensed or insured ebikes makes sense to me. Ebikes are not allowed to legally ride on the sidewalks (*they shouldn't be allowed, IMHO), but...if they ride on the streets, the cars can legally drive at 25-MPH on the slowest residential streets.

Twice in my life, I would have been hit by a car if I didn't have enough power to hop the curb and bail out of the street. If my knees had been crushed, I'm SURE the driver would have been very sad and remorseful.

And yet I do not feel secure that their insurance would have been adequate to repair the incidents' impact on my life.

I will continue to use 2500W+ on my street ebike, in direct violation of federal law. My local police do not seem to care, nor can they properly operate a voltmeter.

#NoPowerLimits

 

[MadRhino]

Here if you want a VIN for a vehicle that you build yourself, you have to make a series and pay for the federal vehicle safety tests (some of them destructive), prior to approval.

There is the law, and the enforcement of the law. Nobody cares if you behave. There are enough laws to get you off the streets if you don’t.

 

[ebike4healthandfitness]

Electric power for Pedi-cabs.

If a California moped (carrying two passengers) can have under 4 HP then a three passenger pedi-cab (carrying up to four passengers when including the driver) should have under 8 HP. Six passenger pedi-cab (which carries seven passengers when you include the driver) can have under 14 HP.

DOT approved tires (i.e. no bicycle tires) should be mandatory as well for these electric pedicabs.

 

[dogman dan]

Good example of why power should be limited to 5 hp or whatever, but speed limits make sense for pedicabs. As low as 5 mph, if the area is congested enough. Cars same low speed limit too of course, if its a street.

 

[ZeroEm]

Don't hot rod around, do ride up to 28 mph. Police here only look to see what i'm riding and 99.9% don't think it even has a motor the other 0.1% ask if it is. Don't know why only the slowest of vehicles have power limits? I'm for not messing with the laws, if they want to change them loosen them up a bit.

 

[spinningmagnets]

I understand we are operating in a gray area.

A few ES members have upgraded their hot rod ebike to DOT-legal Moped status (headlight/tail-light/brake lights/turn signals...etc). And then they got a license plate with liability insurance.

I have no moped license plate, insurance, but I do have a moto license (since 1976). I was tremendously relieved to see the speed limit for a powered ebike to be legal at 28-MPH, since the side streets have cars going at 25-MPH minimum.

I'm against any power limits, but nobody here is checking my power.

 

[sleepy_tired]

Ebikes and mopeds, by their nature, are exponentially less of a threat to society then a moron in some 400hp SUV or Mustang driver. And the laws and restrictions should reflect that.

Minimal threat = minimal laws.

It does not make sense to apply 'car thinking' to something like a moped.

Laws should be left vague, minimal as possible, and up to interpretation anyways. The last thing we want is exact laws spelling it out in detail about motor design, drive trains, and nonsense like that. This is the only way the system is able to function. If the government went around enforcing every single law to the letter the entire country would cease to function overnight. If laws dictated details about ebikes and such things then it just ends up with a legal morass that only serves to screw over people on ebikes while accomplishing nothing to make the community safer.

I also am of the very strong opinion that engineering should be left up to engineers, not politicians. Aside from mandating certain safety features (ie: working brakes, etc) and minimal competency for understanding rules of the road the politicians really have no business mandating designs or anything like that to ebikes.

Also this way the cops don't feel obligated to ticket people who are behaving themselves, but can find a excuse to fine people who are behaving like assholes or risking damaging people or their property.


If people are worried about dogs getting ran over on shared paths or erosion on mountain bike trails from people wallowing out mud holes with a high-torque motor and knobby tires then it makes sense to have speed limits on those trails, and power limits on mtb trails, and apply them universally with power level exceptions for people with disabilities. Idiots screaming at me "on your left" while going full blast on their road bikes while trying to compete with each other on Strava was far more menacing and dangerous then any sort of other person I have ever seen with two wheels on a park path...