will this work ? battery virgin / wants lipo

[hydro-one]

Hi you all! Im starting my first ebike and would like to have the very best battery technology.... for cheap..... I want to run my nine continents rear from ebikes.ca, with 6fet 20amp contoller, with a 15s lipo.

hobby city order :::

4x 5s5000mah 15c hobbycity packs so cheap!!?? (one extra!!) http://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6499

2x cellog 8 voltage monitor http://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9282&Product_Name=Cell-Log_Cell_Voltage_Monitor_2-8S_Lipo

1x accucel 8 charger
http://hobbyking.com/hobbycity/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=7523&Product_Name=Turnigy_Accucel-8_150W_7A_Balancer/Charger

A really custom harness notwithstanding ---,celllog provides cell level LVC, for riding , and cell level HVC for bulk charging cutoffs. . I realize I will need some form of power supplys,,,,at first a 12-18v to power the charger/balancer(charging one 7s and then one 8s though the (custom) balance leads), and then another one to add to that later --for bulk charging once pack is balanced. Oh and then I want to parellel up to 3p by parelleling the balance leads then the main leads also. This will add 277whrs(100%DOD) per 15s1p addition (only 170$).........Will it work? I think 55 volts is near max for this 6 fet controller ( 63v charge)......mabye MEthods could share his secret to amping this up to 50v50amps as he was heard saying" is easy"!!

Thanks to all those who insired me to do this!! Starting with MATT REcumBent.......that was inspiration to join this group .....great job on all the great builds I see here!!

Mike from Win-PeG

 

[vanilla ice]

That should work. I would get three accucel-6 chargers instead of the 8 though.. would make charging easier for $20 extra. You could charge the whole 15s string at the same time, and you're still at 150w total. You only need one power supply for multiple chargers.

 

[hydro-one]

Thanks for the reply van ......I was going to order another 8s accucel next order---along with more batts if the test goes well!!!, that would concievably put me at a ~290w balance charge ...for another 50$ more.......

Can't wait for my kit to arrive, not sure on the bike yet, will post some pics when it comes in..

Havent seen many ebikes around here,,,,,,I know there are a few though, should be more and thats my job ......

Cheers,

e-mike

 

[morph999]

I wanted to do the same thing as hydro. Ok, with this charger that Hydro is buying, does it need all the wires to charge or just the balance leads? I don't want to have to unhook all of the lipo packs each time I want to charge them. Anyone know? I want to be able to charge the easiest way. And leave them all hooked up while I charge them.

How long do these LIPOs usually last? 2 years? Or is the technology still experimental?

 

[AussieJester]

I would highly recommend you getting GGoodrums parallel adapter (and balancer when its released) Theres a heap of info in the Turnight battery thread on it, allows you to connect 4 6s packs up to th eboard then to a balancer and charge the lot with one lead. Monitors LVC HVC and balances the lipos. The way you wish to do it will work but its waaaay more complicated than it needs to be and unsafer...

Suggested threads to read

Zippy/Turnig Test
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10817

Lipo Info
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9170

The golden rule to follow with lipo

Don't exceed 4.3v/cell or discharge Discharge below 2.7v/cell Stay within these parameters and they are safe as houses

Best of luck

 

[hydro-one]

Thanks---

Got my batterys in one week from HC. Went for a ride at 60v 1p. Had batteries in backpack. CA claims max amps 30. mostly wide open for 2.5 ah or so. Then i noticed the voltage was at 36v!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WTF

Luckily I was a block from home. Openied it up and found one battery had "sausaged" and i mean it almost burst , and it was HOT......

What happened...??? did I kill a cell(then a pack), because of high temp during discharge, the other cells were fine and at 18v,,,, (15c cells zippys) ? over discharge followed by thermal runaway? I think im lucky it didnt burn.....

Otherwise I LOVE 9C at 60V BIG EV GRIN

mike

 

[hydro-one]

PS the charger ACCUcell 8 is slow but so COOL!!!!! I must be a geek because im just running around charging all my old cells, cycling etc......

Should I have bought 25c cells for 1p riding or what? or did i get a bad one

 

[morph999]

well, I think LIPOs are highly unreliable. I initially was going to go with them but I read so many bad stories on them from the RC forums and here that I just decided to go with Lifepo4 instead. I don't know what the problem is with LIPO, part of it might be putting 12 - 16 cells together. It's just such an unstable chemistry. I don't think Lithium -polymer is going to last. It's going to be trumped by either lifepo4 or another technology. They are making new lead acid batteries that have as much capacity as lithium and last just as long (3000 cycles). There's all kinds of new tech being developed.

 

[morph999]

Oh...you did a 60v 1p ? whoa...yeah that's really risky there.

actually, I have no idea why that happened. You did use 50 % of the pack . It could be that the cells depleted so rapidly on a few of them that t went below 2v or 2.5v on one them (whatever the cutoff is). Maybe it was from the voltage sag or something. You have a battery that weighs a few lbs and you probably have a lot of voltage sag. I'm not an expert on this but from the people that I've read that use only a few lipos, that have huge voltage sag from the load. Much more than a bigger battery would like with the lead acid. Maybe that had something to do with it.

I think with LIPO and lifepo4, it's always good to buy a lot more battery than you need. I've heard some say the opposite but I'd rather make sure that I never even come close to hitting a 2.0v on a cell. It's probably smarter to just put an extra $200 to buy extra capacity than spending $200 on a BMS.

You could buy a $400 lifepo4 that is 36v10ah with a good BMS but if it doesn't work...you're out $400.

Or you could buy a $600 lifepo4 that is 36v 30ah without a BMS and never come close to ever hitting the low voltage cutoff by only using about 17 ah of the capacity.

 

[hydro-one]

Yeah 60v !!! It is risky, risk of crashing and dying.....esp in the snow and ice!!!!!! BIG EV GRIN THOUGH!!!!!!!!

Im debating on my 2nd battery now, might just cave in and by the lifepo from ebikes.ca Its for my friend , not as tech savy as myself. For me Im gonna by six or so more lipo's to play with. The "sausaged" battery seems to be fine now. I pinholes the caseings, and squeezed the gas out . Seems to work fine now. I think I went under LVC and tried to put all that power though a dead cell or/and something got super hot , thats why it gassed. Seems to be a scam, battery is fine(the hard part" but caseing "gases". ruines caseing, but battery still fine??? Well' see in a few cycles!!!

Oh also broke my motor, left side plate brake boss (where disc screws on) sheared off. now only have front brakes WOA!!!!!! quick pic of bike, still have to do a build thread!!

Thanks,

Mike

my bike

 

[recumbent]

The "sausaged" battery seems to be fine now. I pinholes the caseings, and squeezed the gas out . Seems to work fine now. I think I went under LVC and tried to put all that power though a dead cell or/and something got super hot , thats why it gassed. Seems to be a scam, battery is fine(the hard part" but caseing "gases". ruines caseing, but battery still fine???

You are one adventurous fellow, Mike. I never heard of re-using a puffed-out Lipo battery by lanceing (pokeing holes in) the foil pouch and degassing before.

You most definately have to keep an eye on that cell obviously, but we are curious if it will keep working. I hope it does for your sake, but it's a very good idea to get more amp hrs of batteries, plus one extra to replace the puffed cell.

How the heck did you bust the motor bracket/brake thing? If you show us a picture, maybe we can give you a few ideas how to fix it, besides ordering another side plate.
Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[johnrobholmes]

The puffed cell/pack is weak and shouldn't be used, you are just risking a fire with the liCo. Once you drain them flat the IR goes up and the chemistry is ruined.


One entire pack went down in voltage? Are you sure you fully charged it? I have killed packs that way, charge all but one and it dies halfway through the ride.

 

[hydro-one]

After charging the puffed cells, overnight, under my pillow, in a cardboard box, I have come to the conclusion that JRH is right and the puffed cells wont ever be the same. The charge only about 2/5 capacity, and most of the charge is taken at 4-4.2 v! healthy cells take charge at around or slightly above nomial. Plus huge drops at any appreciable current!!! So that SUX!!!! Oh well still has mabye 2 good cells in it. More testing required.

So Have been very careful with the batterys now, i set my lv on the ca to 52.5 volts--3.5v per cell i think....havent had any problems. The other night I was at 30 wh/km on heavy snow no pedalling!!! get about 14 km range average so pretty good !!! Charger works pro!!!!!

Justin is sending me another motor as I broke brake boss off the left side cover. Great !!

Want to up the current now , What is methods secret to modding the 6-fet controller from ebikes.ca?????

Im thinking beef up the traces, solder shunt? phase wires? im at 60v already.......which I LOVE !!!!!!

Ive had alot of people ask me if its legal.......I say who carez!!!!!! This is freeriding at its best!!

need more LIPO soon,,,,,sticking with 5s I think....lookin at getting a meanwell. Love what all you guys are doing

Really Inspiring stuff!!!!!

mike

 

[morph999]

Ive had alot of people ask me if its legal.......I say who carez!!!!!! This is freeriding at its best!!
mike

That's what I said. It's not like we are hurting anyone. Right now, I pretty much ride around and no one cares that I'm on an e-bike. If I start getting police pulling me over and asking me the specs on the bike, I might change my mind but hey, my bike was about $900, it's not going to break me if it's taken away.

 

[hydro-one]

Yeah . Also the 9c with mini controller, backpack batter is
STEALTH!!!

Nobody yet has noticed that it is powered (unless youve seen me tucked in traffic--rare) Even the bike store guy was drooling over the crankset, didnt even notice the hub motor......I pedal when i see a cop. I ryde on the sidewalk majority of the time, and even had a cop backup his cruiser for me to rip past him on the sidewalk like OOPS SORRY IM IN YOUR WAY!!!!!!!!! lol that was a great day for me and my sidewalk=bike highway concept....I pass mabye one pedestrain on a 10 km commute.....nobody walks here esp in winter and they plow the sidewalks good.......


Nobodies gonna be taking my bike!!!! But I do ride very carefully so as not to ever be in anybodys path!!! I give pedestrains PLENTY of room , I stop if I have to , Im not in a hurry. I dont drive on the road unless my heads on a swivel---and if traffic comes, Im back on the sidewalk. FAK THAT Im not ending up with the door prize or run down by some cellfone SUV etc....Saftey first I say!! what cops gonna argue that...

Im not trying to be a car....I jump cars!!!

next --3 more lipos and a powerful portable charger, mabye frame mounted batts..
notice the hummer under my tire LOL (gotta love those little SIGNS)


View attachment done.jpg
View attachment lipoo.JPG

View attachment brake boss.JPG

FREE RYDER FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!

 

[The Stig]

Yeah winter riding can be fun. What do you do about traction and tires?

 

[hydro-one]

Its really fun, when the ground freezes really hard. then you can go on snomobile trails and frozen lakes and creeks. Can really explore areas where you would never get in summer eg bogs etc......

Traction, non issue , lots of rear wheel traction even in the extreme cold with maxxis 60durometer advantage tire/hub motor/me on it for weight. I put a big heavy kenda kenetics on the front. this has worked great at the limits of traction, running a little less pressure here....

mike