Hyena
10 GW
I <3 Methods (only if it sees the light of day
)
Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing
- Thread starter johnrobholmes
- Start date
- Status
I <3 Methods (only if it sees the light of day
)
mwkeefer
1 MW
Methods,
Nice GUI - did you write that up?
I love the analog VU meter interface, very cool!
And guys - the iChargers work but... they don't seem to like > 14-15v input maximum, every single one I have destroyed has been while using it with a power source > 14v (16 and 18v) and more power than the iCharger needed (>300w).
I used my first iCharger for months (about 9) before attempting a 10S 10A charge using an 18v (max the iCharger is supposed to handle) ... I had one successful charge, then while doing the next operation (breaking in some new packs with auto cycling) the iCHarger went up in flame and smoke.
I'm going to guess (based on observation) that the FETs in the iCharger don't like to be run on the higher input voltages of some supplies.
-Mike
Nice GUI - did you write that up?
I love the analog VU meter interface, very cool!
And guys - the iChargers work but... they don't seem to like > 14-15v input maximum, every single one I have destroyed has been while using it with a power source > 14v (16 and 18v) and more power than the iCharger needed (>300w).
I used my first iCharger for months (about 9) before attempting a 10S 10A charge using an 18v (max the iCharger is supposed to handle) ... I had one successful charge, then while doing the next operation (breaking in some new packs with auto cycling) the iCHarger went up in flame and smoke.
I'm going to guess (based on observation) that the FETs in the iCharger don't like to be run on the higher input voltages of some supplies.
-Mike
El_Steak
10 kW
My 206B died as well after only a couple charge cycles. It's on its way to China on slow boat now...
Here's how it happened in my case: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=16043
Here's how it happened in my case: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=16043
mwkeefer
1 MW
El_steak,
I have seen simlar postings on the iChargers in the RC Groups... my failure was a bit more troublesome because it happened while doing a cycle (3), on the first discharge portion if I recall correctly (too lazy to look at my notes). At least in your case I can see how the MCU (microcontroller) could have been confused so that when the pack was connected if the FETs were in the wrong state.. poof.
The manufacturer offered a replacement but with S&H it would have set me back more than just buying a new one from HK (which is what I did)... the newer one was out of calibration about 18mv (again if memory serves) but since I recalibrated it and have stuck to 14.5v maximum input voltage - no issues.
I actually think the bulk meanwell charge method might be safer for unattended (shouldn't charge unattended anyway) charging, when a meanwell goes... it either pops a fuse or a FET but that is within a solid aluminum enclosure and the damage is contained... the iCharger would have set my house ablaze had I not been here while charging with it!!!
I've seen both of these methods fail durring a charge, the meanwells end up (in my cases) with a blown fuse and no connection to the output (pack)... the iCHarger is a mystery!
Maybe its time to put the temperature probe on the iCHarger not the pack! (jk, it would do no good).
-Mike
I have seen simlar postings on the iChargers in the RC Groups... my failure was a bit more troublesome because it happened while doing a cycle (3), on the first discharge portion if I recall correctly (too lazy to look at my notes). At least in your case I can see how the MCU (microcontroller) could have been confused so that when the pack was connected if the FETs were in the wrong state.. poof.
The manufacturer offered a replacement but with S&H it would have set me back more than just buying a new one from HK (which is what I did)... the newer one was out of calibration about 18mv (again if memory serves) but since I recalibrated it and have stuck to 14.5v maximum input voltage - no issues.
I actually think the bulk meanwell charge method might be safer for unattended (shouldn't charge unattended anyway) charging, when a meanwell goes... it either pops a fuse or a FET but that is within a solid aluminum enclosure and the damage is contained... the iCharger would have set my house ablaze had I not been here while charging with it!!!
I've seen both of these methods fail durring a charge, the meanwells end up (in my cases) with a blown fuse and no connection to the output (pack)... the iCHarger is a mystery!
Maybe its time to put the temperature probe on the iCHarger not the pack! (jk, it would do no good).
-Mike
El_Steak
10 kW
Well at least, this proves without a doubt that unattended charging is a BAD idea.
I like the full-pack charging method. 3 of those Meanwells PS in series can charge a full kilowatt in an hour. No need to leave the rig unattented for long or overnight. Only thing missing is the BMS, so I'm watching the Fetcher/Gary BMS development and who knows, maybe Methods will eventually sell his LT-based BMS to the masses.
While I'm waiting for a replacement from HK, I bought one of their ultracheap 50 watts Accucel-6 charger (20$!!!)
I know its slow, but from what I read its reliable and precise enough. Anybody tried it around here ?
I like the full-pack charging method. 3 of those Meanwells PS in series can charge a full kilowatt in an hour. No need to leave the rig unattented for long or overnight. Only thing missing is the BMS, so I'm watching the Fetcher/Gary BMS development and who knows, maybe Methods will eventually sell his LT-based BMS to the masses.
While I'm waiting for a replacement from HK, I bought one of their ultracheap 50 watts Accucel-6 charger (20$!!!)
I know its slow, but from what I read its reliable and precise enough. Anybody tried it around here ?
Hyena
10 GW
Not that exact brand, but I've tried 2 similar 50w 6S models and had them blow up after a short period of time.
300+ charges on 2 meanwell supplies and I've never had an issue (well, I smoked a few but that was my own fault experimenting, in normal operation they've been faultless)
300+ charges on 2 meanwell supplies and I've never had an issue (well, I smoked a few but that was my own fault experimenting, in normal operation they've been faultless)
methods
1 GW
mwkeefer said:
Yes - child's play for a supreme programmer such as myself
-methods
Hyena
10 GW
Leave room for integrating GPS signals oh supreme programmer
Package your hardware with one of those cheap $100 chinese WinCE powered touchscreen 5 or 7" GPS's
like this
oow, my pants just got a little tighter
Package your hardware with one of those cheap $100 chinese WinCE powered touchscreen 5 or 7" GPS's
like this
oow, my pants just got a little tighter
Grinhill
10 kW
El_Steak said:
I've got one of those, still working. My daily charger is an Accucel-8, it hasn't missed a beat.
methods
1 GW
This is not Zippy / Turnigy - but it is an ass-load of lithium.
Uncle Meth-Rock is back in action. My 208B showed up tonight.
Here are some discharge shots.
View attachment 011_Isolator.jpg
6S 12P discharging at 1/2C into a Ghetto-Fabulous 1KW Infineon power load
Over here we have 2S 60P on a dual 4.2V 30A charger.
Charger drives 4.2V @ 30A into each bank individually to grantee balance.
View attachment 013_Isolator.jpg
If you dont know what this little guys is and why it is here dont even think about using the 208B to discharge at high power thru external loads. Even being the self-proclaimed genius that I am I *almost* smoked out this second iCharger right out of the box. Ohms law has an amazing way of biting you in the ass when it comes to big currents and small loads.
This is my backlog just from 2 days. This, with the other stuff, is just the tip of the iceberg. My entire shop is covered with these damn packs and like hell am I going to wire a singe one of them into my car until they have been binned up. I have only binned about 500Ah out of the 26KWH I have to go thru :?
But I am not complaining. This is like letting a crack addict work at the DEA.
Nothing I love doing more than building crazy chargers and loads and ghetto-rigs.
I drew up a circuit to do a 2KW discharge station but I still dont have enough resistors to handle the load. I took apart two 5305 stators to make a single 500W load but that overheated real quick. I think I am going to build more Infineon loads - they work well.
-methods
Uncle Meth-Rock is back in action. My 208B showed up tonight.
Here are some discharge shots.
View attachment 011_Isolator.jpg
6S 12P discharging at 1/2C into a Ghetto-Fabulous 1KW Infineon power load
Over here we have 2S 60P on a dual 4.2V 30A charger.
Charger drives 4.2V @ 30A into each bank individually to grantee balance.
View attachment 013_Isolator.jpg
If you dont know what this little guys is and why it is here dont even think about using the 208B to discharge at high power thru external loads. Even being the self-proclaimed genius that I am I *almost* smoked out this second iCharger right out of the box. Ohms law has an amazing way of biting you in the ass when it comes to big currents and small loads.
This is my backlog just from 2 days. This, with the other stuff, is just the tip of the iceberg. My entire shop is covered with these damn packs and like hell am I going to wire a singe one of them into my car until they have been binned up. I have only binned about 500Ah out of the 26KWH I have to go thru :?
But I am not complaining. This is like letting a crack addict work at the DEA.
Nothing I love doing more than building crazy chargers and loads and ghetto-rigs.
I drew up a circuit to do a 2KW discharge station but I still dont have enough resistors to handle the load. I took apart two 5305 stators to make a single 500W load but that overheated real quick. I think I am going to build more Infineon loads - they work well.
-methods
mwkeefer
1 MW
Hyena said:Leave room for integrating GPS signals oh supreme programmer
Package your hardware with one of those cheap $100 chinese WinCE powered touchscreen 5 or 7" GPS's
like this
oow, my pants just got a little tighter
Do these support standard WinCE peripherals - IE SD style Wifi (if not built in) and expansion cards... if so, add a simple hardened enclosure (sure it's TFT will work through Neoprene) and wow that would be an awesome base level bit... depending on the hardware coding for those devices is much like for Windows Smart Phones (I've done nothing since Windows Mobile 6 but I'm sure it hasn't changed much).
Good find!
El_Steak
10 kW
The little Accucell-6 charger I use as a temporary measure to charge my Lipo doesn't allow for adjustments to the max cell voltage. Its set at 4.20V for Lipo.
It does have a charging mode for Li-Ion however and the max voltage is 4.10V which suits me. Appart from the max (and min) voltage, is there anything different in the charging method between Li-Ion and Lipo?
It does have a charging mode for Li-Ion however and the max voltage is 4.10V which suits me. Appart from the max (and min) voltage, is there anything different in the charging method between Li-Ion and Lipo?
vanilla ice
1 MW
I'm not sure but on mine I have only ever used the LiIo mode for my lipo. It has been working fine. 4.10v ftw.
GCinDC
100 MW
I finally bought a mean well SP-320-48, just one, mostly cause i got sick of looking at it in my eBay watched items list, and the thought occurred to me that I could set it to 20.5V and hook it up to my parallel harness (at least for now). And it'd be handy to have as a backup. And heck, I could even attach my mks propo balancer (battery medic) for some monitoring/lightweight balancing...
Now, as for the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: Methods, what kind of lipo is that you got there? Where'd you get it? NEVERMIND... I just searched...
But re the Bug, what kind of performance, ie top speed, range, etc are you hoping for w/ the VW Bug running LiPo (and Windows!) :lol:
Now, as for the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM: Methods, what kind of lipo is that you got there? Where'd you get it? NEVERMIND... I just searched...
But re the Bug, what kind of performance, ie top speed, range, etc are you hoping for w/ the VW Bug running LiPo (and Windows!) :lol:
El_Steak
10 kW
GCinDC said:
Can you set that 48volts PS all the way down to 20.5V without modifying it?
Does it also have the same over-current issues as the S-350 series ?
GCinDC
100 MW
el steak, hyena posted this a couple pages ago re the mean wells, though i've not read the whole thread yet:
if you click my ebay link, you'll see the range specs and pics of the voltage adjustment... might need some mod. not sure yet...
Hyena said:
if you click my ebay link, you'll see the range specs and pics of the voltage adjustment... might need some mod. not sure yet...
Hyena
10 GW
You may not have alot of luck with the 320w models, there's been alot of discussion over in the other thread about them not being able to be modded (yet) with the shunt or resistor mods like the 350w and they're going into hiccup mode.
GCinDC
100 MW
Obviously should have done my homework.... 
mwkeefer
1 MW
No fears fellows - I think the easiest method is going to be to add a front end CC limiting feature which keeps the output below the 312w limit ( think that's the average sustainable max) that will handle the units going into hiccup mode due to overload... I think this will work, not 100% mind you but I think...
This will also remove the need for current limiting mods on any of teh units since we can control maximum current (I'm working on a 1-20A adjustable limiter now).
-Mike
This will also remove the need for current limiting mods on any of teh units since we can control maximum current (I'm working on a 1-20A adjustable limiter now).
-Mike
methods
1 GW
I agree - that is the solution.
I have been trying to think of a very low cost hack for doing this - no luck yet. My gut tells me there is probably something out there we can modify to hang on the front that will serve this current limiting purpose. Wont be efficient -
Someone might need to do a run of boards to get something efficient.
-methods
I have been trying to think of a very low cost hack for doing this - no luck yet. My gut tells me there is probably something out there we can modify to hang on the front that will serve this current limiting purpose. Wont be efficient -
Someone might need to do a run of boards to get something efficient.
-methods
El_Steak
10 kW
Woo hoo, just got upgraded to "Platinum" level at HobbyKing.
Too bad I'm done ordering all my stuff. It took me 3 months, 7 orders and 950$.
Not sure it's all that good though. I did a few spot checks of stuff I remembered the "gold" price for and couldn't see any difference. :?
Too bad I'm done ordering all my stuff. It took me 3 months, 7 orders and 950$.
Not sure it's all that good though. I did a few spot checks of stuff I remembered the "gold" price for and couldn't see any difference. :?
methods
1 GW
It is hit and miss. In some areas there is a substantial difference - $50 savings is fairly common.
Stuff like this: $150 for busters, $100 for platinum
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/...g_Quattro_4x6S_Lithium_Polymer_Multi_Charger_
(not that I am saying anyone should buy that - I just recall that particular item having a really big delta)
I dont remember what my discount on that was as a Gold member though - could have been the same.
My bet is that Platinum members get better treatment when it comes to returns. I have heard some horror stories from first time buyers.
If nothing else you can feel good about all the slave labor you sponsored in china
-methods
Stuff like this: $150 for busters, $100 for platinum
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/...g_Quattro_4x6S_Lithium_Polymer_Multi_Charger_
(not that I am saying anyone should buy that - I just recall that particular item having a really big delta)
I dont remember what my discount on that was as a Gold member though - could have been the same.
My bet is that Platinum members get better treatment when it comes to returns. I have heard some horror stories from first time buyers.
If nothing else you can feel good about all the slave labor you sponsored in china
-methods
maydaverave
10 kW
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2009
- Messages
- 542
So I don't know much about lipo but I was thinking it would be pretty easy to string two of those turnigy 22 volt 5amp hour packs in series for a small compact and cheap 44 volt 5 ah pack. If I understand this correctly all I would need is the two packs, charger capable of charging a 6spack, a series connector for use, a parralell connector for charging, and a wattmeter that plugs into the balancing lead with a audible warning when my volts get low. What am I missing? if that is all I need it seems pretty simple.
El_Steak
10 kW
Its also deceivingly simple to mess up. Especially switching between series for discharge and parallel for charge.
Seems like the most common mistake is connecting the main leads in series while the balance taps are still in parallel. For that reason many are moving to full-pack charging solutions with power supplies instead of the 6s-10s RC chargers. Of course, this leads to other challenges such as the need for a BMS system.
Search the forum for "KFF" (Kentucky Fried Fingers) and you'll find plenty of examples of what happens when you make a mistake.
Best (worst?) example I`ve seen in this thread is this: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9170
I would recommend spending a few hours reading this thread and the "Lipo Care..." thread ( http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10817&p=235386&hilit=kff#p235385 )
Lipo is like the resident hot chick in a bar. She's hot and easy and you want some action with her, but if you're not careful you might end up with some long term ill effect on your appendage.
Seems like the most common mistake is connecting the main leads in series while the balance taps are still in parallel. For that reason many are moving to full-pack charging solutions with power supplies instead of the 6s-10s RC chargers. Of course, this leads to other challenges such as the need for a BMS system.
Search the forum for "KFF" (Kentucky Fried Fingers) and you'll find plenty of examples of what happens when you make a mistake.
Best (worst?) example I`ve seen in this thread is this: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9170
I would recommend spending a few hours reading this thread and the "Lipo Care..." thread ( http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10817&p=235386&hilit=kff#p235385 )
Lipo is like the resident hot chick in a bar. She's hot and easy and you want some action with her, but if you're not careful you might end up with some long term ill effect on your appendage.
maydaverave
10 kW
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2009
- Messages
- 542
The cool thing about such a small simple pack is it wouldn't be hard to charge each 22 volt pack at a time. This would be my spare pack for long rides or when I want less weight offroad so charging in a hurry isn't a priority.El_Steak said:Its also deceivingly simple to mess up. Especially switching between series for discharge and parallel for charge.
Seems like the most common mistake is connecting the main leads in series while the balance taps are still in parallel. For that reason many are moving to full-pack charging solutions with power supplies instead of the 6s-10s RC chargers. Of course, this leads to other challenges such as the need for a BMS system.
Search the forum for "KFF" (Kentucky Fried Fingers) and you'll find plenty of examples of what happens when you make a mistake.
Best (worst?) example I`ve seen in this thread is this: http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=9170
I would recommend spending a few hours reading this thread and the "Lipo Care..." thread ( http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10817&p=235386&hilit=kff#p235385 )
Lipo is like the resident hot chick in a bar. She's hot and easy and you want some action with her, but if you're not careful you might end up with some long term ill effect on your appendage.
- Status
