Zippy Flightmax / Turnigy lipo testing

[mdd0127]

What if my actions DO result in HobbyKing doing business as a business should, shipping legally, getting better payment options, and setting up a warehouse in the United States to service US customers? Won't you all be getting better service and reliable shipping, and easier returns, and a little satisfaction knowing that you're putting at least a few Americans to work at the new warehouse? I don't see a bad side to this other than a few people have to wait a few extra weeks to get batteries for their toys.

Maybe the price goes up a few bucks per pack because of the costs of doing business right. Sometimes the price has to go up to provide service.

Throughout all of this, I have not have had bad intentions for anyone. My goal was to get HobbyKing to do the RIGHT thing.

That's all I need to say in this thread. I hope that we have a reliable supplier for everyone soon. The only other thing I might post in this thread would possibly be some videos of some crunched packs getting charged for the first time.

 

[GGoodrum]

What if my actions DO result in HobbyKing doing business as a business should, shipping legally, getting better payment options, and setting up a warehouse in the United States to service US customers? Won't you all be getting better service and reliable shipping, and easier returns, and a little satisfaction knowing that you're putting at least a few Americans to work at the new warehouse? I don't see a bad side to this other than a few people have to wait a few extra weeks to get batteries for their toys.

Maybe the price goes up a few bucks per pack because of the costs of doing business right. Sometimes the price has to go up to provide service.

Throughout all of this, I have not have had bad intentions for anyone. My goal was to get HobbyKing to do the RIGHT thing.

That's all I need to say in this thread. I hope that we have a reliable supplier for everyone soon. The only other thing I might post in this thread would possibly be some videos of some crunched packs getting charged for the first time.

Personally, I don't have a problem with anything you did, and I agree pretty much with all of your comments, except that I know Luke is not tied to HK. He's just a good customer. Anyway, as someone who used to ship a fair amount of LiPo packs all over, I knew this house-of-cards was going to collapse at some point. If this forces them to create a real US warehouse, so much the better, in my mind. I don't care if it costs a bit more, I'll gladly pay that to have US-based shipping.

I talked to somebody at HobbyPartz last week. They are getting a big shipment in about another week, or so. Their 20C "blue" packs look a lot like Turnigy/Zippy-types, so I'm anxious to try some. They are based in the LA area too, which means I can get them ground-shipped in a day.

-- Gary

 

[mwkeefer]

Gary,

I will have an order of the HobbyPartz blue lipos tommorow - shipped via UPS ground and ordered 2 days after my last Hobby King order which was never even sent to the HK Post...

As soon as they arrive I will cycle them and then post up capacities, then test under 4C load and again report capacities..

I too contacted them (about a week ago when this all started) to inquire if they could get 6S packs into stock, they advised that the 6S 20C were on route already via freight forward.

Now in regard to HobbyKing - I would honestly consider myself a loyal customer and before this there had been one issue with shipping (I should have refused a damaged package)... that said, here is the latest from HK Post parcel tracking department (they are a bit annoyed with me in truth, I call them daily to check)...

I received this email about 3 hours ago:
-------------------------

From: mto@hkpo.gov.hk
RE: EA048600922HK

Dear Mike Keefer,

Thank you for your e-mail.

We double-checked and still found no posting records of the above item number being received in our system up till this moment. Please contact your sender immediately for the matter.

Best regards,

Mail Tracing Office
Hongkong Post

------

In my phone conversations (really too many, I need to start sleeping and give up on this shit) they were very clear (all the people I've spoken with at HK Post) that the first step upon receipt of HK Post EMS is not at the airport but rather to be scanned into the system... so when a tracking number never shows up at all:

1.) The wrong tracking number was given by HobbyKing (this would be great, but my package would be here already)
2.) The package was never picked up or dropped off at HK Post.

Since this "Check in scan" happens prior to LiPo screening it proves one of the above happened, given all the rest of the people (hundreds at a minimum) who are experiencing this issue.... I would guess they never even sent them to HK Post but are "working around".

With regards to the Visa situation - It seems HK is asking anyone who tried to pay with visa to pay via paypal now... and that can only mean 2 possible things:

1.) Their merchant account has been suspended because of complaints / disputes
2.) They willingly suspended their use of the merchant account to avoid condition #1

There simply are no other possible answers or causes.

In short - I too wanted HobbyKing to be honest, I placed a sacrificial lipo order 2 days ago on a different account and it's still in status Paid, Pending which to me is better than MIA or Lost or Limbo, in actually it's the behavior I would have expected to begin with.

Before this incident I had the highest regard for HobbyKing's operation, now I am not so sure (considering they knew this was coming and should have moved inventory or given us a chance to freight forward and avoid this shit!).

That said, I will give them about 13 more days to delvier my goods before I will call my own credit card company and have the charges reversed... if they issue a refund before then, I would consider continuing business with them when they are back up and through this (goods in USA warehouse that isn't even in existence yet, which means more possible issues as they realize the requirements for Hazmat shipping more than XX of Lipo capacity)... If they deliver or refund within the time I will be willing to overlook this but hope it teaches them in the future to properly prepare for shit like this.

And if these posts above about someone actually calling or emailing the authorities about HK shipping lipo, why the FUC* would you do somthing like that- if that's not what happened, nevermind and don't bother explaining yourself - no need... But nobody likes a snitch especially given this amount of crap...

That said, this is somthing according to HK Post HobbyKing (who hold an account as Hextronics and 4 other company names) was advised of this beginnning in december and were also advised of the cut off date when thigns would be accepted wihtout this "Screening" so I don't think the cause was anyone posters actions...

Remember there are dozens of other companys (if not hundreds) also trying to push lipo out through HK Post and that slows ALL ORDERS LEAVING HONG KONG DOWN - this means even if you don't have LiPo orders just normal parts - it's a good chance of a few extra days delay, ALL LIPO will be returned to Sender or confiscated (based on HK Posts statements).

Anyone else for doing a full or half pallette in freight forward - it will be 4-6 weeks but we will have our stuff and shipping on a half pallette is about 200.00 dropped off to my warehouse (where I have hazmat facilities and the ability to ship these out)? I really would have done this sooner if I had been aware of HKPosts plans.

Hope this clarifies and helps someone!

-Mike

 

[Doctorbass]

I just cancelled my zippy 25C order and switched for the 20C that are now availlable for 3$ more each pack.

Today I placed two order ( one for 9 packs and one for 4 packs) I need 12 packs and i think that with 13 i could have spare part to repair deffecitve packs....)

Some would recommand me to put that on hold because of the shipping issue about these lipo problems...

I reallly dont know what to do...

Yesterday i received my 4 x 6s charger from them ( one month after..)

Does HobbyPartz coul be the solution?...

oupss... forget that!.. it seems to be the OUT OF STOCK party now at HobbyPartz...



Thanks all

Doc

 

[mwkeefer]

Doc,

Until HobbyKing has inventory in the US location for shipping or they at a minimum explain what the heck they are doing with LiPo orders (they are still spewing BS at this point) - I would suggest holding off.

I can tell you 5S packs are available from HobbyPartz right now but I would suggest waiting one more day until I receive my first order of 6 of them (5S 20C 5000mah) to ensure they meet our needs and arive ontime as expected (UPS shows delivery tommorow).

Providing the order comes correct, I see no reason to order from HobbyParts - the price difference with S&H over EMS from HK is about 2-3.00 more per unit ordered, not a big deal...

With HobbyKing - I have a sacrifice order I placed a few days ago for just one 6S lipo pack, it's still Paid Pending so atleast they aren't claiming anymore they are in hold at HK Intl Airport... but I'd wait and see when / if mine arrive from them.

One other point - they shipped (hobbyking) supposedly a pallette to the states but even by their owners own statements - it's a warehouse to be, not a warehouse which exists in Seattle - it will take some time to get setup and they still need Hazmat certified person for shipping legally within the states above the FAA limits.

BTW: Sorry I missed your question about C rates - the answers you got were correct, go for the highest C you can afford especially at the power levels you want to run = )_ I have noted 20C and above are awesome and hold nearly 3.8/3.7 for the full discharge capacity (or 95% actually) - I have one 30C pack here and it weighs a bit more, internal review seems to be a heavier duty PCB and perhaps a better soldering job in general and yep they work as expected with less sag than the 20C packs under the same load - trick is for normal people < 50A, 20C is fine... you should invest in either the highest C, lowest IR you can find... or just build them up in parallel which will lower the IR at parallel block level and in effect raise the C exponentially.

Hope it helps more than it confuses!
-Mike

 

[El_Steak]

exactly, but if somebody really has to have the shit to solder fresh aluminum check supplies link here:

http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/index.asp?sid=425494

interesting site, never purchased but may have to if haters run HK out of reach? C'mon Seattle warehouse!

I ordered from them twice a few years ago when NiMH cells were all the rage... both experiences were good.

 

[mwkeefer]

I've actually noticed using normal solder in addition to whatever is in place already on turnigy packs tends to raise the IR a bit... I would imagine the proper solder doesn't - can you confirm this Y? Or anyone?

I have like 20 types of solder (spool, stick, paste, etc) but none for doing clean lipo... for that I have a small medicine jar filled with what I extracted durring the dissassembly of many packs using a desoldering vacume (from radio shack)... yep, tidbits and leftovers from desoldering - but I use it cause I could never find the right stuff.

-Mike

 

[steveo]

I just cancelled my zippy 25C order and switched for the 20C that are now availlable for 3$ more each pack.

Today I placed two order ( one for 9 packs and one for 4 packs) I need 12 packs and i think that with 13 i could have spare part to repair deffecitve packs....)

Some would recommand me to put that on hold because of the shipping issue about these lipo problems...

I reallly dont know what to do...

Yesterday i received my 4 x 6s charger from them ( one month after..)

Does HobbyPartz coul be the solution?...

oupss... forget that!.. it seems to be the OUT OF STOCK party now at HobbyPartz...



Thanks all

Doc

i sence 144v bike here doc.... are you hiding something

-steveo

 

[Doctorbass]

I just cancelled my zippy 25C order and switched for the 20C that are now availlable for 3$ more each pack.

Today I placed two order ( one for 9 packs and one for 4 packs) I need 12 packs and i think that with 13 i could have spare part to repair deffecitve packs....)

Some would recommand me to put that on hold because of the shipping issue about these lipo problems...

I reallly dont know what to do...

Yesterday i received my 4 x 6s charger from them ( one month after..)

Does HobbyPartz coul be the solution?...

oupss... forget that!.. it seems to be the OUT OF STOCK party now at HobbyPartz...



Thanks all

Doc

i sence 144v bike here doc.... are you hiding something

-steveo

Doc

 

[mwkeefer]

DAMN THATS ALOT OF SPACE FOR A SMILE (shouldn't steveo be green and Doc be happy?)

 

[Ypedal]

Re cheapbatterypacks.com I received a parcel from them yesterday, the lipo supplies bag was marked " Zinc " and compared to equivalent sized regular solder this stuff seems a bit stiffer. Also got a few hammerhead soldering tips.. Good service and prompt shipping.. all good at CBP.

 

[AussieJester]

Any Aussies recall the Australian store that stocks all the HobbyCity packs and motors cant seem to find it in my bookmarks? Want to see iof they have lipos in stock still, they were nearly double the price of HK but this is what we will be up against if they stop sending from HK i guess...

KiM

 

[boostjuice]

http://www.hobbyscene.com.au/hobby/batteries-chargers/turnigy-lipo.html

 

[mwkeefer]

97.00 for 5S 20C that went for 42.00 each?
Thanks but no thanks = )_

Update on Hobby King shipping - I've just tonight received a second "shiped from Hobby King warehouse notice" for each of my pending (the lost/mia and the sacrificial) orders from HobbyKing and they don't register yet as trackable however they now point to Singapore Speed Post!

That seems to be a good sign, who knows maybe sometime by end of June I'll have em in hand?

-Mike

 

[methods]

WTF?

I leave to go work on my BMS for a month and you guys turn this into a Hobby City bash thread?
F'ing amazing.

I am deleting this thread from my subscriptions.

-methods



P.S. mdd0127 - You represent everything that I despise.

 

[ZapPat]

WTF?

I leave to go work on my BMS for a month and you guys turn this into a Hobby City bash thread?
F'ing amazing.

I am deleting this thread from my subscriptions.

-methods

P.S. mdd0127 - You represent everything that I despise.

I think the "you guys" is mostly only one person, Methods... don't go too balistic. We are all pretty pissed at the shipping situation, and I must say that despite hobbycity's great products and prices, they can be pretty lame with customer communication sometimes. However I am well aware of this, so I have never really expected "top notch" communications from them, and anyone buying from them should also be aware of this.

I must say that I have bought about 6-7kWh of Lipos from hobbycity over the last year or so (both zippy and turnigy), and have never received a battery with a bad cell yet! I may just be lucky, but they definitely did not hand pick my packs since I am a new customer to them. Even if I would have received a bad pack or two I would have considered this all part of the game.

Pat

 

[mdd0127]

WTF?

I leave to go work on my BMS for a month and you guys turn this into a Hobby City bash thread?
F'ing amazing.

I am deleting this thread from my subscriptions.

-methods



P.S. mdd0127 - You represent everything that I despise.

I represent honesty and proper business ethics. I also refuse to get ripped off and just take it lying down. I bought batteries from HobbyKing based on the advice from this thread. All I have done is report my experience so others doing research will have a chance to see both sides. If you can't handle this, you shouldn't read posts on an open forum. I really appreciate everything you've done to push electric bikes along, but if you prefer to continue giving money to companies that deliberately rip their customers off, you are free to do so and YOU represent everything I despise. Your mentality and people who share it are the reason for the destruction, greed and pain we see in the world. You want your junk disposable and cheap and don't care who you have to get it from even if you have to get hassled and ripped off sometimes. Please think about your actions and how they affect others. Seriously.

 

[Ypedal]

Quote " companies that deliberately rip their customers off " ..

No..

Shit happens, it's unfortunate when it happens but it does happen. Just because you personally had bad luck with all of it does not mean everyone has, saying that they are doing this on purpose is rediculous.

 

[mdd0127]

Quote " companies that deliberately rip their customers off " ..

No..

Shit happens, it's unfortunate when it happens but it does happen. Just because you personally had bad luck with all of it does not mean everyone has, saying that they are doing this on purpose is rediculous.

When "shit happens", and the company ignores your emails, fails to even answer the phone, and ignores your requests on their forum, and you end up paying hundreds of dollars for items you can't use, and you have absolutely no way of recovering your lost money or time, YOU HAVE BEEN DELIBERATELY RIPPED OFF. They do this to other customers daily. Ten a day as Luke put it! I firmly stand by my statement until I get an apology from the owner and either a full refund, or a full SUCCESSFUL order replacement.

 

[mwkeefer]

Mdd,

There are a dozen other reasons why HobbyKing is having issues, could they have prepared for this better... after speaking with HK Post and some Seriously heavy shippers from Hong Kong, I think they could have done a better job but that is business and companies screw up on expansion and in responding to situations like this.

Even though I feel one of my packages may never show up, I don't think they set out to RIP CUSTOMERS OFF.... but rather are having trouble - I've had trouble with businesses, both unexpected and yes before I knew better even crap like this.

All that said - I feel a little let down by HobbyKing just cause they didn't prepare better (I would have at this point, so would Y and Luke probably) but I am encouraged because their tracking numbers are moving and there is somthing going on... and in the end if the package doesn't show within 45 days (I checked with my Credit Card company to be safe) I can simply reverse so what (besides a tad bit of time) does it cost me to give them 44 days (should be enough?) - nothing.

The quality of products certainly is better than the immediate available competition!

Methods - I had thought about what this Hiccup would mean to you and Gary but it puts many of the rest of us who have projects dependent on LiPo and some BMS (Yours, Gary's, etc) although I know you guys put way more time and KFF into this than I... If someone feels dissed, let them express it... a week ago when EVERYTHING WAS in limbo, I had the same first impression, only difference I stayed up 4 days past 3AM to talk to HK Post and others to sort it out for myself.

Let me compress and condense that, Methods... dont sweat the small stuff brother!

Hope it helps! {can't we all just get along}

-Mike

 

[evblazer]

Quote " companies that deliberately rip their customers off " ..

No..

Shit happens, it's unfortunate when it happens but it does happen. Just because you personally had bad luck with all of it does not mean everyone has, saying that they are doing this on purpose is rediculous.

When "shit happens", and the company ignores your emails, fails to even answer the phone, and ignores your requests on their forum, and you end up paying hundreds of dollars for items you can't use, and you have absolutely no way of recovering your lost money or time, YOU HAVE BEEN DELIBERATELY RIPPED OFF. They do this to other customers daily. Ten a day as Luke put it! I firmly stand by my statement until I get an apology from the owner and either a full refund, or a full SUCCESSFUL order replacement.

My company does that to hundreds of thousands of customers a day. Now not getting anything is another matter but not getting what you expect is business and unfortunate. I fell pretty ripped off by some stuff I recently got and am stuck with it. Unfortunately we are somewhat on the edge of availablility and sometimes sources don't live up to promises more than expected
Most folks don't feel ripped off though so they keep churning along.

 

[mwkeefer]

I finished round #1 of testing the Blue Lipos I ordered and truthfully, I'm feeling a bit taken but I knew it was a risk... (minimal since you can almost always chargeback on a credit card).

One trick I've learned at dealing with businesses which could go belly up at the drop of a dime, use Amex over Paypal... I've NEVER been screwed, once I gave a company so much rope... 84 days I waited to contact Paypal and request a refund / dispute for what amounted to a 3 month late delivery which arrived fully wrong! Paypal gave me stuff... but, Amex had the charges off within days.

If your wondering, yes I contacted the company to return the "improper/incorrect" merchandise... the declined to pay return post but I was so done with them, I shipped it Parcel with tracking and returned it all anyway. I may not be the exception but there really are more than not who would have just kept the stuff and never offered to return it, even at their expense.

With regard to HobbyKing - If you received defective merchandise or incorrect, they will and do accept returns (in my experience)... it takes forever at times, but they will accept the return. If not you can always dispute the payment with Paypal or your credit card company... explain to them that you have been unable to reach the merchant (they really are busy, I have a difficult time reaching them by phone @ any time and I stay up all night just to speak with suppliers in China, Hong Kong and other Asian locations about 1/2 the week on average)... they will be able to contact the merchant and arrange the return.

We have all (almost) received something damaged which should have been QC checked better or perhaps really was damaged in transit (these blokes are not gentle by any definition) - I've had one or two bad lipo packs back at the beginning but chose to dissassemble rather than go the route of return shipping... sure I fixed em, yes it was a pain in the ass and I even felt a bit ripped at the time (check my historical posts on the stuff, I was pissed because the QC failed... who wants to ship things back to Hong Kong?) and wasn't quiet about it...

It happens and we deal with it because none of us doubts the good faith of Hobby King (at this point), in fact I will tell ya... I made a sacrificial order just so I coudl report what was currently happening with pending orders placed after I had 200.00 worth of lipo dissappear (never tracked) and now my sacrifical order is in motion as is the Lost order... Are these things late? HELL YES! Was I pissed they didn't warn us directly (as in on our account, home or ordering pages?), HELL YES!

However after emailing the owner / manger (not sure what he is really)... he implemented a warning with regard to shipping in general, found a work around and is implementing it... is it perfect? Nope, am I blissfully happy, Nope!... but I will continue to support them as I can see how this type of thing could be handled badly (I think of how some of the fortune 100 companies I've worked for over the years run and I can see the debaucle they would have caused... would have been far worse) by any business but they have demonstrated (at this point in time):

1.) they are not attempting to deceive anyone *( warnings added, though they are being optimistic in timeframe still = ())
2.) stuff is moving, slow yes but moving (courrier is moving)
3.) Since china has much of it's sea freight docked (on purpose I think) it has created another delay in addition to (verified with 2 independent sources, 1 US based 1 in China)
4.) HK Post / HK Intl will no longer just let LiPo packages through (verified by voice call to HK Post and HK Intl Airport)
5.) Customers effected prior to me have since received packages (verified by me in touch with 6 others who had been effected before me... many still waiting but some are arriving now)

Don't get me wrong (and sorry methods) but if this continues another 40ish days and I don't personally know some people who received their packages and I haven't received my own but just more emails bouncing, and I will be all over a boycott and worse... I don't believe it will ever come to that, even if it did... It would be more likely that their company got caught in the "Downward Spiral" effect I keep referring to, if you have ever been a Paypal or Credit Card merchant, you will understand the Downward Spiral and there is only 1 solution to the Spiral - CAPITOL INVESTMENT!

So... for now, even I am chill (that's saying somthing) but the LAST thing we need here on the ES community is bullshit arguing and crap over this situation.... even if everything goes to hell in a hand basket, members will figure out and implement a solution or keep pushing vendors until there are other solutions...

The point is we (only) have strength in unity, that goes for supportive as well as offensive or defensive... we really do need to stick together

Here let me put it another way... Anyone watch Boondocks? (never mind, that will get me into too much crap)... We are a minority and need to work together to get past stuff like Lipo embargos, shipping difficulties and so on... just like we do for technical issues and engineering inspiration!

Forgive me this is a bit off topic.

-Mike

 

[GCinDC]

I finished round #1 of testing the Blue Lipos I ordered and truthfully, I'm feeling a bit taken but I knew it was a risk... (minimal since you can almost always chargeback on a credit card).

What does this mean - What were the results of your tests?

Curious how the Blue Lipos stack up...

This thread is like the rise and fall of an empire! LOL

Anyone talked to them about a container-load? I'm tempted to 'start a US warehouse'... :wink:

 

[mdd0127]

I finished round #1 of testing the Blue Lipos I ordered and truthfully, I'm feeling a bit taken but I knew it was a risk... (minimal since you can almost always chargeback on a credit card).

What does this mean - What were the results of your tests?

Curious how the Blue Lipos stack up...

This thread is like the rise and fall of an empire! LOL

Anyone talked to them about a container-load? I'm tempted to 'start a US warehouse'... :wink:

Thanks for your post mwkeefer. I am not mad at anyone here, just a little frustrated that a lot of people seemed to think this type of business practice was ok. I'd love to have a brew with most of the members here, even if they don't agree with me. I'd like to think we're all a team of pioneers. I got a bad deal and my package couldn't be returned even if I wanted to eat the return shipping because it's illegal to ship damaged lipo. I'm between a rock and hard place because HK won't respond to my issues at all. Amex might be different, but with Visa and Mastercard, you probably won't be able to file a dispute on an international order. I was told that they don't offer that protection. Good luck with your orders though.


GCinDC,

I was very interested in using HK's batteries as the main supplier for my project. Before I got ripped off, I tried to contact them in every way possible about a large order and I got no response at all. So then, I figured if I ordered a few and spent some money with them, they might take my requests seriously. They didn't. I was very hopeful about Venom Batteries even though they're over double HK's price but they are also having stock issues and I've been expecting a response about wholesale quantities for over a week now. I'm searching daily for a US based importer that's carrying good packs, importing them legally, can keep them in stock, and can return communication promptly. I will share with the board when I find one. It would be an awesome business opportunity for someone with an importing background and some China skills. Go there, find a good supplier, arrange legal shipping, set up a warehouse and website in the US, retire a millionaire in a year. I'm going to run it by my investors next time we meet and see if we can get anything going. The only unfortunate thing is, HK's illegal shipping and cutting corners on customer service to bring the prices down so low, have reduced the value of LiPo to a non sustainable value level. After paying the costs of shipping properly, good quality control, and good customer service, it's likely that the batteries will have to be sold at double HK's price to make a profit. That's fine with me though, and obviously many others too because every place I can find that sells 6s 25c 5000mah packs is constantly sold out, no matter what the price. So I guess, if someone reading this knows importing, speaks Chinese, is honest, and wants to help provide batteries and good service to the US market, PM me. I want to figure this out.

 

[dozentrio]

I'm tempted to 'start a US warehouse'... :wink:

That does seem quite appealing, however isn't the problem with these batteries that you can't ship them? So what are you going to do with a container load (before they expire) if you can't ship 'em easily...