Tires - Balloon/Urban type

[D-Man]

Edit: Tire discontinued now. Good luck.

[Mathurin]

Yeah man, I got 26X2.0 Big Apples to replace the 26X2.125 Kenda Flames, that replaced a set of knobbies. Well the flames were inverted sculpture tires kinda like the Continental Town and Country tires, that have a good reputation for rolling resistance and being reasonably good in the muck, so I figured the flames would be comparable. Well turns out the flames were pretty bad on both accounts. Thick, heavy tires that somehow manages to give a knobby squirm feeling while cornering. Also, despite being thick they got fairly regular visits from the flat fairy... So, after about 500kms I removed them in disgust and on with the Big Apples.



Virtually no rolling resistance, it's really impressive. No need to pump them brick hard to get it, either. Also they're indeed pretty good at soaking up small stuff like cracks in the pavement - better then suspension, but going down stairs they're insufficient. I see on the schwalbe website there's a pic of a dude going downstairs on a Big Apple equipped commuting bike, but he's riding the 2.35's. The 2.0's are narrow compared to the 1.95 MTB tires that were originally on the bike. Dunno but I'd think a size bigger would be preferable all-round.

I've purposefully rolled over broken glass when I got them and it yielded... no flat? Actually I've yet to have a flat with 'em. Guess the magick Kevlar thingie actually does work.

The white sidewall thing is a reflector, and they works surprisingly well, too. I suppose it could replace wheel reflectors, except that the both of them are white so cars wouldn't be able to know at a glance if you're going to the left or to the right... I ran a white and colored reflector in each wheel en plus of theese reflective strips, also white and coloured reflective tape in my rims. But then my bikes are not toys but vehicles proper, so being seen is mission critical.

Guess what wheel has the Big Apple in this pic?



They sound kinda like a proper road bike that's being pushed pretty fast. It's a sort of resonating sound, so they sound fast even when you're going slow, that's kinda particular. It's not offensive, rather quiet compared to knobby tires really, but they were louder then I expected. I think I've read that the marathon is quieter?

I dunno what they're made of, I see the website talks about silica compound thing? But they definitely stick better then cheap chineese rubber, especially in the wet.

They have a kinda egg shape when they're pumped up, so they seem taller then wide. I think this is why it makes them roll fast and act as suspension compared to other tires.



Overall I liked the 26X2.0 Big Apples, if they weren't too narrow I would probably actually have left them on until they wore out. Still, they would be just about perfect for a 26inch Hybrid bike, or for retrofitting a mtb for road use. But they make going down stairs really hard on my bike, and I'd like to keep that one as long as possible since it's really sweet. Also, I'm not as comfortable keeping speed in street corners then I was with the 2.125 Kenda Flames tires they replaced, but then the flames seemed about 1.5 - 2X wider.

I'm willing to trade off a bit of cruising speed for comfort, especially since I plan to add a my1018 to the said bike, so any rolling resistance difference is likely to become negligible. Over the coming summer it's likely I'm going to try the fatter version of these tires, 26X2.35

[lemmiwinks]

I read on a blog yesterday that it's a requirement by law for Dutch bikes to have reflective sidewalls on their tyres (about a million percent more people commute by bike in the Netherlands than USA/Canada/Australia).

Impressive trailer load there! I assume you strapped the boxes on somehow to stop them falling off? Inspite of my sore knee I took my non assisted MTB into town on Saturday and picked up 22kgs worth of crap in my TW bents trailer. I was so chuffed to be using it, it was truly tragic It did a bit of "wag the dog" but I think I just needed to adjust the hitch slightly.

[Mathurin]

Nope, the stuff didn't get strapped down on that trip!
But it's not like I went very far.

Also note the Kenda Flame now equip the trailer. They're OK for it since isn't getting used very much. Makes for reasonable suspension as far as going up/down sidewalk/driveway lips, also cracks in the street if it's loaded, but smaller, wider rims with fatter tires would be preferable.

[D-Man]

I see on the schwalbe website there's a pic of a dude going downstairs on a Big Apple equipped commuting bike, but he's riding the 2.35's. The 2.0's are narrow compared to the 1.95 MTB tires that were originally on the bike. Dunno but I'd think a size bigger would be preferable all-round.

Yeah, thats kind of the way I see it. The 2.35 seems a little too big unless you want to go down stairs. Check out this picture. A 2.35 on the front and 2.0 on the back. The Schwalabe "Super Moto" up front which is same as Big Apple just by looking at the outside of it. Also, the reflex whitewall on the back of this bike seems smaller width then Mathurin's. How old are your tires Mathurin?

[Mathurin]

They're from early last summer.

I ended up with three of 'em though, long story.


Here here:

[Reid Welch]

I put these Bontrager 2.5" Big Hanks on last summer.
They're grippy, silent and easy riding.
The sidewalls are thin, very thin (less rolling resistance, right?)
The cap is not very thick either. I'd -think- these tires could punture easily;
so far, no problem!

Their big bald appearance is strikingly good looking in person.
People who see the bike often ask about the tires; they like them.
And they are relatively fast and very easy rolling. I can and do go on turf and hardpack. The crossection is wide enough to help float the bike on sand---if I'm careful!

Slicks rule though, on pavement, wet or dry.
The fenders barely fit. I've since taken them off.
The OEM tires were Kenda Flames. They were thick, rough riding, and just no fun compared to the quiet, cushy Hanks.

[D-Man]

Thanks for the reviews Reid and Mathurin. Reid, now that you have your fenders off, can you take a measurement of the diameter and width of those Hank's installed? Just wondering how wide and tall they really are.

[Reid Welch]

Thanks for the reviews Reid and Mathurin. Reid, now that you have your fenders off, can you take a measurement of the diameter and width of those Hank's installed? Just wondering how wide and tall they really are.

=Seem to be 1/8" less than 2.5" wide,
which is OK, because they barely fit as they are;
also, the rear tire must be deflated in order to remove wheel.

=About 27" tall

=From the rim edge to the crown= about 2 1/8".

Not precise measurements, but fairly close I hope.

[D-Man]

.

[Nimbuzz]

D-Man, The Hemispheres now come in the Armadillo Kevlar style and are getting great reviews for durability = riding across India, Canada, commuting two years in NYC -- all without a flat! They go up to 80lbs and come in a 26 X 1.95. They might be worth considering. I have some but haven't tried them yet.

[Reid Welch]

Thanks Reid. The Bontager Hank comes in two sizes. The 2.2 and 2.5.


If anyone has a review and dimensions of the 26x2.5 Maxxis Hookworm or other balloon/urban tire, speak up now.

Edit - Times up. An order has been made. Have to wait a week though to get the tires.

Which are you getting? The fat Hookworm looks very good, gets great user reviews!

If bulletproofing were my main concern moreso than cushion, that's what I'd have.

---

BTW, Michelin latex tubes have served well in the Big Hanks for a couple of months now. I like the slight added resilience.
They need a lot of re-pumping, however, the ride is even nicer I think--every step toward decreased rolling resistance is appreciated here. Latex is reputed to offer added puncture resistance.

ahem...then too, these latex tubes are thin! And when inflated into the Big Hank, they must be stretched akin to a party balloon. Ah.... when a puncture does come I don't suppose I'll descend with a phsssst.... ha! BanG!

---

compare specs, screenshots:

http://www.bontrager.com/Mountain/Wheel ... s/5788.php




http://www.maxxis.com/products/bicycle/ ... asp?id=160



summary:
-The Hank will be the easier rolling tire by some margin.
It has a grippier compound flanking the center tread.

-The Hookworm will be the tougher tire for abuse.
What does it's tread pattern offer, I wonder?
Maybe a bit better traction on dirt?


air pressure: with my bike's c.g. being toward the rear,
and with my modest weight of 150 lbs, I -could- run my front tire at only 20 PSI and not risk a pinchflat...

but, the braking of the bike is done almost entirely by the front wheel. The grip power is tremendous on pavement.
IF I have the front tire soft, then the thin sidewall can be seen to actually -wrinkle- under brake torque. Not appealing.
So I run the front tire typically at 30 to 35PSI.
=I do not suppose this would be necessary with a Hookworm or a Big Apple tire; I suspect those pups have stiffer sidewalls.

Still, for me and my likes, the Hanks remain first choice here.
I love how they ride, roll and look.


my thoughts,
r.

[D-Man]

.

[Mathurin]

Well the Big Apples are pretty thick in the middle part where they roll, and it gets progressively thinner until the edge of the thread where it stops getting thinner, the flancs are quite supple.

Over the years my buddies who ride street/urban assault have all migrated onto Hookworms from a variety of others, but they're all about traction. The one complaint I hear is that they wear fast. They're heavy, but street tires are just made that way, big w/thread on the sides so you can ride hard and grind stuff without destroying them. Hookworms would be my first choice if I get a street bike. I don't understand why these appear to be popular for electric bikes though, I mean if you think riding street is gonna happen with an electric bike, you fooling y0self. You're just gonna suck hard at it, and break your bike.

[xyster]

Over the years my buddies who ride street/urban assault have all migrated onto Hookworms from a variety of others, but they're all about traction. The one complaint I hear is that they wear fast. They're heavy, but street tires are just made that way, big w/thread on the sides so you can ride hard and grind stuff without destroying them. Hookworms would be my first choice if I get a street bike.

I have the 24x2.5 hookworm on the rear motor. The finer tread pattern, not the deep swirly grooves, wore flat after about 750 road miles. At 1000 miles now, they still look to have maybe 90% of their tread left. They're weight isn't an issue compared to a 100 lb bike! I do wish they came kevlar belted like the armadillos, instead of having to install a separate kevlar liner.

[D-Man]

Hank tires used on different bikes:

[Reid Welch]

I've seen your 2.25" Hanks on a similar skeletored Trek at the LBS.
Look great. You'll like the ride. I dunno about slimed tubes though...
Jobst Brandt has a thing against 'em....

why? I'd have to look that up. Meanwhile,

oooh, just found the new generation of IZIP bikes....

gonna make a thread!

[D-Man]

I dunno about slimed tubes though...

The only thing I've heard is the slime dries up after awhile. I forgot how long it takes. I've noticed it causes the tires to be out of balance when the bike sits for a bit. How do I know this? When you pick the wheel up off the ground and hit the throttle, it shakes. But once you drive it around the slime distributes itself around inside the tube. Check it again and no more shake. I don't think you would want these in a super high speed E-bike; but its better then nothing.

[D-Man]

I -could- run my front tire at only 20 PSI and not risk a pinchflat...
but, the braking of the bike is done almost entirely by the front wheel. The grip power is tremendous on pavement.
IF I have the front tire soft, then the thin sidewall can be seen to actually -wrinkle- under brake torque. Not appealing.
So I run the front tire typically at 30 to 35PSI.

I was just experimenting trying to get the tire to "wrinkle." It can be done on the back tire with all the weight if pressure drops to around 25 psi and brakes are applied while rocking the bike. I have mine set for 30 right now. I still think I can get away with 16psi front if I be careful. Still raining though.

Update: Looks like 18 psi front works and 26 psi rear for maxiumum comfort. One inch ledges on driveways are almost reduced to nothing and are not felt. There seems to be some drag when turning back and forth though at this low pressure. The dual compound tire might be causing that. Seems to go away at 40 psi though. The center section is a slick and the sides are textured sticky rubber for grip for turning. As far as getting better "suspension" from these tire, they work. You still feel the small bumps though. Seems to do better on bigger ledge type bumps.

Update: Tires working pretty good at the low pressure setting. The small bumps are pretty well softened. Have to take it easy going around corners. Overall, the slicks roll pretty good even at low pressure for my bike with no suspension. The ride gets real firm anything over 30 psi for a non-suspension bike.

Update: Got 400 miles on them now. Most of the drag has gone away when turning back and forth now that the tires are wearing in. It was the cross-hatching on the sides. No flats yet but a few small slits are seen from glass.


Bontrager Hank 2.2
26.5 inches tall unloaded
2 1/16 inches wide installed

[Reid Welch]

I dunno about slimed tubes though...

The only thing I've heard is the slime dries up after awhile. I forgot how long it takes. I've noticed it causes the tires to be out of balance when the bike sits for a bit. How do I know this? When you pick the wheel up off the ground and hit the throttle, it shakes. But once you drive it around the slime distributes itself around inside the tube. Check it again and no more shake. I don't think you would want these in a super high speed E-bike; but its better than nothing.

From: jbrandt@hpl.hp.com (Jobst Brandt)
Newsgroups: rec.bicycles.tech
Subject: Re: do kelvar belts stop flats?
Date: 5 Aug 1997 00:20:22 GMT

Ray Bowman writes:

> Why not use sealants instead? They work better and have negligible effect
> on rolling resistance. Solar car racers, who typically test the #%@$ out
> of their components, determined sealants to be the best choice among all
> flat protection schemes.

Sealants have another hazard that the makers of the stuff are
apparently not aware. A slimy substance inside the tube will make a
bicycle uncontrollable in the event the tire goes flat from a cut,
something sealant will not block. I have had the experience, and was
fortunate that it occurred on a straight road with almost no crown. I
slid all over, controlling something as benign as a rear tire flat.
You might want to try how well an inner tube full of this stuff glides
sideways before committing yourself to it.

Jobst Brandt <jbrandt>

And it went on from there
http://yarchive.net/bike/tire_goo.html



_____________

The tires look great! But I'm a fan of them already, ha.
BTW, I've had latex tubes in my pair for some time now.
Aside from the constant re-pumping needed, I like latex tubes.
They do seem to add suppleness to the tire. Your milage may vary.
I'm sold on this combo----for now. Yikes, though if a latex tube pops.
I think it will pop with a bang because it's very thin and it's highly stretched inside my fat tires---like a balloon. I get such strange notions.

_________

Enjoy your tires. Let me know if they have any points of fault about them,
ride, performance or lasting qualities. I enjoy the adhesion Hanks give. My bike feels very deft with these sticky dual compound (soft sidewall) slicks---

_________

edit: found this, from someone we respect

I use "ride-on" and have never had a flat since i
switched to it from slime. i have pulled big nails out of the tire and
kept right on riding.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/powe ... sage/61405

[D-Man]

Here is how much "suspension" the Hank tire has:

[xyster]

Aren't pinch-flats a big risk at low PSI?

[D-Man]

Aren't pinch-flats a big risk at low PSI?

Not really. Its only on the front. You'd have to hit a big ledge. Plus I don't go off road or go much over 20mph. They really don't compress as much as I wanted but oh well.

[Mathurin]

At 18 psi I have no doubt my 2.0's would be easy to bottom out while riding, and in compressing them as you've done, they'd likely make more difference on the ruler. But this wouldn't be a fair comparison, two tires of different sizes at the same pressure means the fat one is harder then the thin one. Consider the 2.0 Big Apple is rated 30-70psi with a load of 125kg, whereas for the 2.35's they want 20-55psi w/150kg load rating.

I felt the rear 2.0, at max pressure and on a narrow 1 inch rim was marginal for Bike de merde. Driveway sidewalk lips and such were a hazard, since with ~15Kg of batteries & stuff on the back of the bike I could only lighten it so much. I'd guesstimate that with 2.35's I could have run it at ~45psi to get a similar feeling on the rear end. But even on the FS bike they currently gratify, 18psi would be insufficient for the 2.0's.



In the end though, short of swapping tires on a bike to compare them side by side, the best I can think of is to hit Google and read lots of reviews to compare tires. As for the Big Apples & I, the honeymoon was over a year or so ago & I still love'em. *knock on wood*

[wren]

Reid, thanks for the suggestion on the 2.5" Big Hank. I was only recently cleared to ride on the street as I'm recovering from a spine injury. So, after reading your review and before hitting the street, I picked up a 26" Big Hank for the rear.

It's very nice. The bike is comfier than I remember.

I have it on its own wheel to make it easy to swap between a cheap tire to burn up on a trainer and the comfy Big Hank for the road.

It's a 20/26 recumbent. So, a 20"x2.35" Big Apple now resides on the front. Mathurin, thank you as well.

I'm pretty pleased.

And no, the bike has no electric assist. Yet.