72v PSI leggo - X5304 Chopper

Ypedal said:
- If i leave the BMS plugged in with the ballance leads and the + and - leads hooked up to the pack, cell no.24 gets drained significantly ( like 1 ah over 48 hrs )

- If i leave the ballance leads plugged in but not the + and - everything is ok.
Click to expand...

Looks like you have a damaged channel, Gaston.

Ypedal said:
Something strange i've observed is that chanel 24 will start to flicker faintly when the pack is just starting to ballance but cell 24 is still at the 3.4xx volts, the other chanels only start to flicker when cells get to 3.6xx volts
Click to expand...

Yup...definately a bad channel. The TC54 low voltage detector is wired directly across the cell. If reversed or overvolted, it'll fail as a short...until voltage is increased to about 15V and the little puppy explodes. Then it's not a short any longer. :twisted:

Inject voltage into channel 24 the same way you connect a cell - positive into the pack positive and negative into the far 'right' shunt resistor lead. You should be able to turn the voltage down to active the LVC signal and up to activate the shunt.

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=13380&start=15#p217405 Pictures!

Andy
 
ok, got all my bits for testing, found a 10k pot, single LiMn cell charged to 4v, tested that the pot varies the voltage on the middle leg and it does, hacked off an LED bulb from a flashlight and tested that, tonight i have to solder up some wires and get with the testing !

Big HUGE THANKS to AndyH for his help, patience and assistance with this, he does not make nearly enough profit to spend his time dealing with electronic newbs like myself but lets be very clear on something .. .I REALLY APREACIEATE IT !!!.. 8)

ps: and no, i did not hook up the lvc to the lightbulbs lol... :mrgreen:
 
Ok.. so here goes.

- With the pot adjusted to 3.7v the led's will light on chanel 24 as well as the others as expected, so that's ok.

- The LED i used for testing the lvc will only light with a minimum of 2.8v so it won't light wih the 1.9v from the chanel circuit on LVC, fine, i hooked up a dvm to the lvc wires and if i bring the pot to 1.9v i get nothing at all, 0v from the lvc wires.

:(
 

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very well done ypedal!

i love battery pack setup .. it looks sharp!

-steveo
 
Update time !

1st.. i just got back from an awsome ride !!!!...

Anyone who's driven an X5 at 72v and 80 amps in a 20" wheel knows exactly what i'm talking about, but for the rest of you who have not.. take the most fun you can have with you pants on and have 2 healthy servings of it .. then add 2 more bonus points for Joy and insanity.. you get pretty much what this is like.... oh man.. THIS IS TOO MUCH FUN ! if such a thing is possible.

I have to calibrate the meter but i get roughly 60 km/h and she gets there in short order ! and in complete silence, only a nice howl off the line as the power comes on strong... i frickin love it !.. LOVE IT>....
 

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But... But.. ... But...

There is also bad news.. :cry:

I sent the BMS back to AndyH for repair, he did his thing and sent it back !! Thanks again Andy !!..

So i quadruple checked my wires to make absolutely sure it's all correct, wired it all up, setup a DC/DC 12v setup to power a big honking Kilovac EV200 relay, all works great, wired up the e-brake wires ( this time checking polarity. :wink: ) and after the ride i took out my new to me Zivan NG1 charger..

I know the Zivan will need caps to filter out the BMS pwm at the end of charge during ballancing, so i have caps on hand, but before getting into that i wanted to try the charger as it is.. so i plugged the zivan into the BMS and powered it up.. beep beep.. and it starts charging... but .. i did not yet have the " sw " wire connected to power the BMS's charge circuit.. blinky blinky orange lights on the channels and the main LED blinks red/green.. :|

Sooo.. i get my soneil chargers out, wired them up and nadda.. green lights.. If i bypass the BMS and charge the pack directly with the soneils they work as expected...

i think i'm going to cry.. :|
 
ok.. so i let the soneil chargers do their thing, pack charged and channel no.24 lit up briefly at the end, checked voltage and indeed 3.75v and the rest of the pack is just about perfectly already ballanced so no big deal.

I fired up the motor for a minute to drain a few watts, plugged in the soneil direct at the cell leads and it powers up as expected ( shows a big 10 amp dump on startup then goes to 2 amps and ramps up slowly ) at wich point 20 of the channels lit up indicating cells over 3.65v so i unplugged the zivan

Good news is the voltage profile of the zivan is right.. if the BMS was working as i want it to.

I'm on vacation next week, so tomorrow morning i go for a ride and will try this again on a fresh head.. and hopefully some feedback from the forum.

Picture of the other side, looks much cleaner.. once i get all the details worked out i will make some shrouds for all the wires and tidy things up some more.

Oh, and also on the list for this week, REAR BRAKE CALIPER MOUNT !!!!.. like whoa this thing realllllly needs back brakes !!! :shock:
 
Love the 'workbench' there YPedal MaN hehe
Nice job on the plexi bending too, i have done a heap of it myself
its an excellent material to use in PC Case modding very popular as
its so easy to work with and gives excellent end results.

KiM

p.s i caught the extra "oo's" you added to "out" to although veeeery skight compared
to other Canadians I have heard here...enoob...Frank hehee
wish us Aussies had accents :mrgreen:
 
The other side.

Here i spray painted the back of the inside panel black to hide the mess of wires and hot glue underneath, problem here is that i can't see thru the cubes to drill safely, so i left it as 3 screws at the top.. more then enough to keep things right.

Put down the ypedal.com stickers under the poly.. :wink:
 

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The Kilovac Relay and Artesyn DC/DC converter.

This is the 1st bike i've had with a real On/Off switch, i like it ! but i HAVE to wire an LED to the DC/DC unit so i don't forget to switch off... i left the unit powered on overnight ther other day... can't have that .. :oops:
 

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The Ypedal(man).com sticker almost looks engraved in the pic haha..

Your English is excellent to mate, I was lead to believe most of the French
speaking Canadians were in a separate part of the country not actually associated with the rest of
Canada...i.e Quebec? :mrgreen:

KiM
 
It's a strange place.. Quebec french and Acadian french are nothing close to being the same.. Doctorbass would have a hard time with my french as it's half mixed with english.. ie: Frenglish.. or " Shiac " as it's called here... when ever i speak to someone in quebec i have to make an effort to speak proper french. And Quebec and NewBrunswick are next to each other !.. i'm only a 6 hr drive away !
 
AAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH....... s.o.b.... one step forward.. 2 steps back.... :evil:

* breath.... phew..

ok.. so last night i'm charging up the chopper direct to the battery leads.. since the BMS's throttle portion is once again mucked up...

While checking voltage at the top of the resistors with my DVM i managed to short 2 channels, not a bad zap or anything, just a tiny spark.. ya know.. just grazed it.. :eek: .. so i hooked up a voltphreak charger to those channels one at a time and sure as can be the LED lit up at the 3.75v mark.. so assumed all was well.

This afternoon, it's cold ( about 2 celcius ) but nice out so i dress up and head out for a ride.. I'm having a hoot chasing cars and zipping around the city.. and at the 17 km mark i notice i don't have quite as much power on hand.. and the CA says 60v at load and this is not right for a 72v pack.... limp it home.. check the cells and yep.. .fried 2 cells.

Man.. these damn BMS's are gonna be the death of me......
 
Ok. so over the last few days, i've amputated the pack from the frame.. split the pack , removed the 2 dead cells..

Actually.. something interesting.. Before removing the pack, i attempted to recharge the 2 cells that were showing 0.02 v , one of them took a charge and is keeping it, the 2nd cell is shot completely as i can even boost it with another charged cell and then hook up the charger, the voltage keeps dropping at a 2 amp charge..

Regardless, i replaced both cells.
 

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Over the last few days i've been bench testing the repaired pack with no BMS...

A few things to note, the cells are showing their age and do not quite hold end of charge as perfectly as they used to. but still good enough to charge in groups of 24v.

On that note, wired up a + and - so i can hook up 3 chargers without having them in series.

And, i have some Cellog units and some HK ballancers on route that i plan to hook up to the andersons at all junctions so i can visually monitor voltage without a BMS.

For one, the bike will look better without the extra wide pack/BMS and i no longer have to worry about dead channels for the time being. 8)
 
Ypedal said:
A few things to note, the cells are showing their age and do not quite hold end of charge as perfectly as they used to. but still good enough to charge in groups of 24v.
Click to expand...

Can you provide some numbers? That is, how long the has pack been around, how many uses has it had, what kind of load has it experienced during its life, and what numbers show that it's showing their age? Less than usual capacity? Like 9 ah instead of, say, 11 ah?
 
Will need to dig thru my site and archives to nail down dates and numbers.. but until i can ( tomorrow morning ) the cells are at least 2~3 years old, used aprox 50 cycles at up to 8C rates..

When charged with the Soneil 5 amp chargers ( 24v, 8 cell ) a few of the cells will go as high as 3.8xx volts while the lowest in the group are at 3.45x .. this is after all cells have been fully 100% charged using voltphreak chargers, drained to 8.5ah, charged in bulk and re-ballanced with single cell chargers, repeated 3 times this week..

Charging individual cells in a 24S pack is a royal pain in the rear end... :evil:
 
Ypedal said:
AAAAAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHH....... s.o.b.... one step forward.. 2 steps back.... :evil:

* breath.... phew..

ok.. so last night i'm charging up the chopper direct to the battery leads.. since the BMS's throttle portion is once again mucked up...

While checking voltage at the top of the resistors with my DVM i managed to short 2 channels, not a bad zap or anything, just a tiny spark.. ya know.. just grazed it.. :eek: .. so i hooked up a voltphreak charger to those channels one at a time and sure as can be the LED lit up at the 3.75v mark.. so assumed all was well.

This afternoon, it's cold ( about 2 celcius ) but nice out so i dress up and head out for a ride.. I'm having a hoot chasing cars and zipping around the city.. and at the 17 km mark i notice i don't have quite as much power on hand.. and the CA says 60v at load and this is not right for a 72v pack.... limp it home.. check the cells and yep.. .fried 2 cells.

Man.. these damn BMS's are gonna be the death of me......
Click to expand...

dude


this is why i ended up getting rid of my bms i used on my 100v lipo pack ..

you rub the bms the wrong way .. and it stops working properly ... frocking up cells...

i now use hobbyking 6s balancers .... i don't regret them one bit ... they have worked awsome for me..

-steveo
 
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