A Very Very Low Cost Electric Bike from Pakistan

[numberonebikeslover]

Dear bike brother, your humility is humbling, thank you for being you yours steve

My dear friend FfredDRredD

It is always a great pleasure and honour for me to be the part of such a great place of learning on the web. Being the slave of Muhammad (Peace be upon him) it is my duty to serve entire humanity with what ever talent God has gifted me. Being in ES I feel that the purpose of my existence got fulfilled.

What I understand is that basic difference between animal and human is of humanity and humanity is to scarify the comfort of your own for the comfort of the others.

Thank you very much for your kind words, I feel honoured.

Yours Respectfully
Naeem

P.S. Please accept my apology for a delayed response but as you might know that Teri John has deeply hurt the feelings of all Muslims around the world with his shameful act. It was very difficult for me to come out of the sorrow and get back to my normal routine. What can I say except that it really hurts very bad.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Dear Naeem, The electric bike web-magazine electricbike.com has completed the article about you, written by the owner, Eric. I occasionally help with formatting and spell-correction. If you desire any changes or corrections, please do not hesitate to ask, as the article can be repaired quite easily. Here is the link: http://www.electricbike.com/pakistan-ebike/

Since there have been fewer changes to your bike recently, I believe it is nearing the point where you are probably happy with its final design. Even though there have been fewer postings in this thread, rest assured that your bike remains an inspiration.

As always, I wish peace and happiness for you and your family during these difficult times.

 

[numberonebikeslover]

Dear Naeem, The electric bike web-magazine electricbike.com has completed the article about you, written by the owner, Eric. I occasionally help with formatting and spell-correction. If you desire any changes or corrections, please do not hesitate to ask, as the article can be repaired quite easily. Here is the link: http://www.electricbike.com/pakistan-ebike/
.

Wow that is some serious work there. converting my question answers to an article was a lot of work. I thank all those who put their effort in completing this.

Please make following correction as you have stated that: To give you an idea the challenges Naeem faced when building this bike, check out his build-it-yourself front disc brake:

It is my effort in making an alternator inside a wheel for which magnets from hard drives are glued to the plywood piece and is bolted on to the front wheel.

I am really at a loss of words to thank you enough. I am just a no body in the world trying my level best in doing good to humanity with the abilities God has gifted me with. I am greatly honoured by your kind effort.

With warm regards.

M. Naeem Zahid

 

[numberonebikeslover]

Dear All;

My motor died again due to a mechanical stuck during a derailing of chain. It was an uphill situation (35 to 40 degree) and was cruising in a speed of 25 to 30 km/hr. All of a sudden the motor stopped and a smoked a little.

I opened the motor and found out that it was just one wire snapped off its connection and got stuck (I took some pics which I will post a little later). Any way the rest of the magnet wire seemed OK just a slight change in colour which got a bit darker so I decided to rewind it again to remove any object of confusion. Moreover, I also found that the during this snapping the commutator also broke. I glued it back and made slight correction in its position which was disturbed due to the pull pressure of the wire during a snap. (post the pics later).

I went to the market and came to know that price of copper wire has increased considerably about Rs. 1260 per kg. There was a time about 5 to 6 years back when it was just Rs. 350 per Kg. Unbelievable. All i needed was just 400 grams so it was for Rs. 504/-

The trouble is that the wire i brought home is thinner then the one already in the motor. I guess the salesman mistook the number. I required No. 24 SWG what I have I guess is 25 or 26.

After my office I will visit to see if there is something that could be done. I am not the kind of guy who fights over others mistakes. Even if it is the salesman mistake I would like to settle the matter down quietly. There is always another way around for any problem or situation. Let us see what goes on. Even if this wire is wasted I will not take my anger on that poor salesman as he did not do it intentionally. And this is my religion Islam which is wrongly represented by taliban and other people who keep on putting a bad name on Islam. The same is the case with an innocent 8th Grader child who raise her voice against Taliban and for children rights got shot by taliban the other day. Please look at the following para from the Wikipedia:
Malala Yousafzai (Pashto: ملاله یوسفزۍ‎, born 1998) is a student from the town of Mingora in Swat District, Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa, Pakistan. She is known for her women’s rights activism in the Swat Valley, where the Taliban regime has banned girls from attending school. In 2009, at the age of 11, Yousafzai came to prominence through a blog she wrote for the BBC, detailing her life under the Tehrik-i-Taliban regime, their attempts to take control of the valley and promoting education for girls. This confrontation which would later require the Pakistani military to intervene.[1][2]

Yousafzai has since been nominated for several awards, and has won Pakistan's first National Peace Prize.

On 9 October 2012, Yousafzai was shot in the head and neck in an assassination attempt by a Taliban gunman.

Respectfully Yours
Naeem

 

[shorza]

Hi Naeem, the Malala story has been covered by the media here in Australia and makes us very unhappy. Also, most people here are aware that Islam and the Taliban are two separate things and don't associate the two together.

I enjoy reading your adventures with your motor and bike.
Please keep the posts coming.

 

[numberonebikeslover]

Just wanted to share that the deal with the magnet wire seller did not went well at all; When I mentioned to the sales man that he has given me wrong size of wire, he started begging me for not letting the owner know about his mistake for he is a poor person and will lose his job. So I put a lid on it.

On showing the wire to the sales man he said that this is correct size what you have mentioned me earlier i.e. 24 SWG but the sample that you brought with you (I took a sample of wire recovered from the motor) is 22 SWG.

OMG it mean my whole calculation was wrong for I did not have a tool to measure the wire size (Screw Gage) Last time when I bought the wire (mentioned in my earlier post) the seller told me it is 24 SWG which was wrong, in fact it was 22 SWG.

Any way according to the rules of that shop, any purchased magnet wire is not replaceable until it is a complete sealed roll, so, I was left with no other option then to buy more (22 SWG) 300 grams for Rs. 378/- . I can’t say it was a loss because the so called wrong size wire could be used in any other project of mine.

Last time I had 35 turns per coil this time I will try for 40 turns per coil. It will also improve the efficiency of the motor for sure and the motor will also be able to be run on higher voltage than 60v, although it would be very tough to achieve 40 turns per coil but I will give it a try.

I keep searching for a better more powerful DC motor but alas I can't find any in this part of the world at least not in the junkyards. Small motors are abundent and are not good candidates for my bike purpose. I wonder if this motor was completely destroyed my bike would be with no motor at all.

shorza: I am grateful for being so understanding, specially for your sympathetic words for Malala. May Allah make her well again. I have heard that her surgery went well and her brain received little harm. I hope she regains her health soon. Thank you very much for liking my posts it is always a great pleasure and indeed an honour to share the moments of adventure with nice people like your self.

Respectfully Yours
Naeem

P.S. please see the pictures re the damaged commutator in the firs two pictures. In the last picture the commutator is correctly positioned after being mended using super glue, providing enough gape for incorporating more copper wire (I have checked the position of brushes is good to go in this position).

 

[spinningmagnets]

Dear friend Naeem, I am not experienced with winding coils. However, in the past I have read articles about home-built wind-generators. When a builder wanted to make a generator for certain voltage and amperage, the charts they used sometimes indicated that a very thick wire could be used to accomplish this. Thick wire is difficult to form in coils, and also leaves much air in-between the stacked wire.

There is a method called "winding in-hand", where two thinner wires that are joined at both their ends will perform the same as one wire that is thick. If you use smaller wire, then there is also less air, and more "copper fill" in the unchanging space that is provided for the coil. I wish I had more experience with this so I could advise you, but perhaps this will be helpful to you. The area of the cross-section of the two wires must equal the area of the cross-section of the single larger wire. Here is one discussion of many about this"

http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php?topic=132182.0

 

[numberonebikeslover]

Dear friend Naeem, I am not experienced with winding coils. However, in the past I have read articles about home-built wind-generators. When a builder wanted to make a generator for certain voltage and amperage, the charts they used sometimes indicated that a very thick wire could be used to accomplish this. Thick wire is difficult to form in coils, and also leaves much air in-between the stacked wire.

There is a method called "winding in-hand", where two thinner wires that are joined at both their ends will perform the same as one wire that is thick. If you use smaller wire, then there is also less air, and more "copper fill" in the unchanging space that is provided for the coil. I wish I had more experience with this so I could advise you, but perhaps this will be helpful to you. The area of the cross-section of the two wires must equal the area of the cross-section of the single larger wire. Here is one discussion of many about this"

http://www.fieldlines.com/index.php?topic=132182.0

Wow! its great specially this calculator: http://home.hiwaay.net/~rgs/awgcalculator.html
although I already had this some where in my mind but a little forgotten (using two strands of wires) it can really make things easy to handle wire easily and insert more wire in there. I am really thankful for your kind suggestion. I appreciate it with a big thanks and warm regards.

Naeem

 

[numberonebikeslover]

Dear All;
I hope I am not breaking any rule in ES but here is my ID in Skype: numberonebikeslover.

Any one of you wana have a chit chat in skype is more than welcome to join me.

Sincerely Yours
Naeem

 

[John in CR]

Naeem,

Two ideas for sources for motors are car alternators and motorcycle generators. There's a lot of information around about how to make an alternator work as a motor, and since you have magnet wire already, rewinding a generator for a motorcycle for a lower rpm would be easy for you too. Both should be readily available, especially an alternator, which has the potential to run high enough power for the electric moto taxi you talked about before.

 

[Kin]

Also, actually, two wires are LESS copper fill than one wire. This is not very important when you use two, three, but if you use 30 very thin wires, you will have less copper fill than the same thickness in one wire.

The benefit of more wires is that it is easier. But a circular cross section will only have a certain fill percentage no matter what, and changing the radius of the circle does not change this. More wires, however, increases copper fill loss because of the insulation on the wires.


This is just a general remark, wanting to share . It only made sense to me a while back when LFP showed pictures comparing the cross section of 26mm cells and 18mm cells (18650 & 26650).

 

[x88x]

The benefit of more wires is that it is easier. But a circular cross section will only have a certain fill percentage no matter what, and changing the radius of the circle does not change this. More wires, however, increases copper fill loss because of the insulation on the wires.

Just a quick note on this; if you want to maximize the fill with this method, you will actually have to use a variety of different wire gauges at the same time.

 

[TylerDurden]

FYI Skype users, recent malware alert: re "dorkbot"... check your update status.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57528353-83/worm-spreading-on-skype-im-installs-ransomware/

 

[numberonebikeslover]

Naeem,

Two ideas for sources for motors are car alternators and motorcycle generators. There's a lot of information around about how to make an alternator work as a motor, and since you have magnet wire already, rewinding a generator for a motorcycle for a lower rpm would be easy for you too. Both should be readily available, especially an alternator, which has the potential to run high enough power for the electric moto taxi you talked about before.

Most of the time we go through so much information every other day that our mind becomes an ocean of information, so it becomes difficult to find and access the required information at times when we confront a problem and we are not focused.

I cam across this idea when I made my Axial flux alternator with Computer Heard Drives and shared it on ww.otherpowers.com but I don’t know why the administrator sent me a message saying that you are using the website for promoting adds and kicked me out for what ever reason. May Allah bless him for his ignorance in this regard.

Check this thread of mine as well:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=33468
Car alternators are abundant and can easily be sourced but a little expensive about Rs. 1000 to Rs. 2500 a piece. I asked one second hand shop for such a piece which can’t be fixed in any model of vehicle and is of no market value. He offered me such a unit for Rs. 1000. If you think that it can even power my Rickshaw Taxi then I would do it right a way but I would need an ESC which could run it and is next to impossible to source it in Pakistan.
I have also seen a thread in which one of our family members in ES (widodo) has made a go-cart with such alternator but his post remains discontinued till yet. Here is the link:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=16328&hilit=widodo

 

[numberonebikeslover]

Also, actually, two wires are LESS copper fill than one wire. This is not very important when you use two, three, but if you use 30 very thin wires, you will have less copper fill than the same thickness in one wire.

The benefit of more wires is that it is easier. But a circular cross section will only have a certain fill percentage no matter what, and changing the radius of the circle does not change this. More wires, however, increases copper fill loss because of the insulation on the wires.

Yes indeed I agree with you. As a matter of fact I started making diagrams on paper and found out the fact to be true. Moreover, the amount of enamel also increases with two thinner wires which also takes precious space. Thanks for sharing nice ideas guys I am really grateful.

 

[numberonebikeslover]

Just a quick note on this; if you want to maximize the fill with this method, you will actually have to use a variety of different wire gauges at the same time.

That is right I did an experiment in which I used a rubber band and held a couple of markers together. I noticed that there is a lot of space between a group of 4 markers to accommodate a think spoke of bicycle to fill the gape. The same goes for your idea of a mixture of thick and thin wires grouped together for rewinding. I guess it would be better to go with the original single thick wire.

 

[numberonebikeslover]

FYI Skype users, recent malware alert: re "dorkbot"... check your update status.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-57528353-83/worm-spreading-on-skype-im-installs-ransomware/

Thanks for the information. I guess this was happening before but now that is a new form of crime. Trojans and worms were used long since but to use them for ransom is a new one.

 

[Harold in CR]

Naeem
Not sure how old the parts will be in your area. Years ago, trucks had generators instead of alternators. They were both 6V and 12V. Also, there are certain models of Ford starter motors that are used to reel in miles of long line fishing gear. These can be ran for more than a few minutes at a time, unlike a lot of starter motors.

I have a starter motor in Florida at my sons house. It is a permanent magnet gear driven for a Cummins diesel. It is not very big compared to a normal diesel truck starter. I will talk with my son in a couple of days, and see if he can get the motor part loose from the starter-geared part. Then, maybe, that will lead you to a path of parts.

Also, you may not have them in your area, but, mobility chairs for people that have difficulty walking, have good motors. Some are not geared, so, higher RPM's would be no problem.

All these I have written about are brushed motors, even the Cummins. You may find something of these types to use if you search junkyards or old abandoned trucks.

Good luck in your searching.

Harold

 

[numberonebikeslover]

About rewinding the motor;

It is coming out nice I have just done 5 coils till yet. What I am worried about is that it is really getting fat where the coils are overlapping on each other (see the pic) I hope it goes till the end on the 12th coil. It is really hard and my hands are so tired of just doing these five coils. I am sure my effort will pay off good.

Melvin1; Thanks for the appreciation. You know what, there is a lot of talent all over the world including Pakistan. It is just that leadership is always corrupt and never let the young talent to get the opportunities they require to make new inventions. You know a young man (Agha Mansoor) from Punjab has recently claimed to run a car with water by extracting hydrogen from it.

Harold in CR: Thanks for the useful suggestions. The junkyards in Peshawar (my city) are a lot different cause the most of the population is poor and some are living their lives below poverty line. There is nothing much in the junk and I would be very lucky if I find something like a big motor for my purpose in the junkyard. Now even the junk is getting a lot expensive. With the information and ideas provided by nice people like yourself and John in CR I am confident to convert a car alternator to a motor of my choice. The only problem I will confront is to import a brushless ESC for the same.

 

[numberonebikeslover]

It was harder than I thought. In the end I started to lose hope but then I discovered a way to make room. I inserted into the space where the winding of wire was suppose to go a spoke of motorcycle wheel which was very much smooth and polished and made sure that there was no rough point on it. After inserting it I moved it to and fro and this squeezed the wire against available space in there and the corners where it was difficult to reach and made room for further rewinding. It took me all day to complete this rooter. see the following picture;

After completing the rooter I had to dip it not a liquid which acts like insulator and also helps in packing any lose wire which might get loosen up due to centrifugal force of the spinning rooter. I presume that is what happened last time. We call it insulating enamel (correct if spelling are wrong).

I forgot to show my work bench. It helps me keep my back out of pain and I don't have to get into bending position which might stress out my back again. I love it. (see the picture):

Respectfully Yours
M. Naeem Zahid

 

[numberonebikeslover]

Ops! forgot to mention;

At the point of contacts of brushes the meter reads 1.7 ohms. Is it good or bad;

What experts got to say?

 

[Harold in CR]

The commutator has already been damaged and repaired. Is it possible that you could find something with NO electrical conductivity, to wrap around the commutator, so it will hold the pieces in place as the RPM's rise ??

There is a plastic strap that is used for strapping things to a pallet. I don't know if that might be available in your area. If so, I would wrap that around the area where the wires are contacting the copper, and super glue or wrap it with a string of some kind, to hold the tension of the commutator.

It would be a shame to have that blow out again, after all the work you have done.

 

[numberonebikeslover]

The commutator has already been damaged and repaired. Is it possible that you could find something with NO electrical conductivity, to wrap around the commutator, so it will hold the pieces in place as the RPM's rise ??
It would be a shame to have that blow out again, after all the work you have done.

Good Idea Harold, I do not have any plastic strip but I have got a great idea. I will rap around a common sewing string around it (about 20 to 30 raps and then knot it down. Then I will put super glue on it. It will start to behave exactly like plastic strap. Thanks for the great piece of advice. I appreciate it.

 

[fechter]

Ops! forgot to mention;

At the point of contacts of brushes the meter reads 1.7 ohms. Is it good or bad;

What experts got to say?

Probably good, but it's hard to tell from a resistance measurement alone. Just make sure each commutator segment has a connection.

If you have a short between strands in a winding, it will be hard to detect by measuring resistance. A shorted turn will act like a shorted secondary in a transformer and result in excessive heat and current draw. Once you get it all back together, run the motor with no load and measure the current. Hopefully it will be close to what it was originally. This is the best test.

Also measure resistance between the commutator segments and the motor shaft. There should be no continuity there (infinite ohms). If the insulation of the wire gets cut on the edge of the iron, it can short out.

The commutator gets very hot during normal operation. I'm not sure what the temperature rating of super glue is, but it could fail at high temperatures. Winding some thread around the segments is not a bad idea, just use something with a high temperature rating. Nomex or Kevlar are the best, silk is also excellent. Polyester is not good. Cotton is between.

 

[teklektik]

Is it possible that you could find something with NO electrical conductivity, to wrap around the commutator, so it will hold the pieces in place as the RPM's rise ??

I will rap around a common sewing string around it (about 20 to 30 raps and then knot it down.

If available, dental floss is incredibly strong and will not stretch. The unwaxed variety will accept glue better.