A123 20AH cells source?
- Thread starter neptronix
- Start date
jonescg
100 MW
I believe CroDriver and myself have most of them 
I reckon if you had to weigh the two options for performance EVs, as being NanoTech LiPo vs A123 20 Ah prismatics, they are about equal for different reasons. Sure, LiPo wins in the power per volume and weight, but loses on the capacity and longevity. I have to say I'm happy with my cells, but as a performance race bike I would have probably been better off with LiPo. On the other hand, these cells are soooooo easy to charge and maintain, I can honestly rank them as the best battery for the job. If only terminating them was easier...
I reckon if you had to weigh the two options for performance EVs, as being NanoTech LiPo vs A123 20 Ah prismatics, they are about equal for different reasons. Sure, LiPo wins in the power per volume and weight, but loses on the capacity and longevity. I have to say I'm happy with my cells, but as a performance race bike I would have probably been better off with LiPo. On the other hand, these cells are soooooo easy to charge and maintain, I can honestly rank them as the best battery for the job. If only terminating them was easier...
Xrain
100 W
I think there has been a little bit of confusion, according to any amount of information I can find on the 20ah A123's, they weigh LESS than a Nano-tech or standard Lipo.
They are however less dense, so the a123's take up more volume but weigh less Ah for Ah than the Lipo's.
They are however less dense, so the a123's take up more volume but weigh less Ah for Ah than the Lipo's.
Xrain said:
But they have a lower voltage. The true comparison is watt-hour or kilowatt hour.
You need more A123 cells to provide the same wattage.
So compare a 10S lipo pack to a 12s A123 pack for example.
Xrain
100 W
neptronix said:
Ahh yes I did forget about that...
Even then I think it's pretty close.
Lipo: 20ah x 3.7 = 74 Whr 537g/74Wh = 7.26 Whr/g
A123: 20ah x 3.3 = 66 Whr 480g/66Whr = 7.27 Whr/g
0.24% difference with the edge to the A123's
For all intents and purposes I feel they are pretty much equal in the weight department. :lol:
As for 12s a123 vs. 10s Lipo, that's a bit more difficult to decide as who is the winner, the Lipo's do get a 390g edge over the a123's, but the a123's get a 6.6% bonus in Whr's, so I think it's a bit too close to call without actually doing a real test.
At any rate, I just wanted to point out that weight wasn't a significant factor between the two.
Actually the nominal voltage is underrated for lipo, for sure.
It is more like 3.8v.
A123 weight also does not include the wire/packaging weight that comes on the turnigy/zippy packs.
But you're right, it is not a drastic difference.
It is more like 3.8v.
A123 weight also does not include the wire/packaging weight that comes on the turnigy/zippy packs.
But you're right, it is not a drastic difference.
Linukas
10 W
jimw1960 said:
I'm talking about OSN power...
I can guess that in Europe after taxes and shipping we can expect $45-$50/cell (for customers who want to buy small amount of cells + local shipping).
--
Linas
jonescg
100 MW
Xrain said:
I'll let you know when I go head-to head with LiPo at Wakefield Park
cell_man
100 kW
I might well be getting some more of the pouch cells but nothing is confirmed yet. Will know more in a couple of weeks. Will post up a thread when I know more.
webfootguy
100 W
These cells look interesting and with A123 winning more contracts, these cells are bound to start showing up more places. I also got a quote from OSN for $45 for 5 sample units but fedex shipping was high at $48. I looked around and found this link:
http://www.a123rc.com/goods-468-Excitingly+Powerful+A+123+PRISMATIC+CELLS.html
The same cells for $40.99 with free shipping (I opted to pay $1.50 extra for package tracking).
I bought a couple for testing. More after they arrive.
Phil
http://www.a123rc.com/goods-468-Excitingly+Powerful+A+123+PRISMATIC+CELLS.html
The same cells for $40.99 with free shipping (I opted to pay $1.50 extra for package tracking).
I bought a couple for testing. More after they arrive.
Phil
Hmm, multiple sources, all with the same price per cell..might imply a reliable source. Plus, like webfootguy said, A123 has been winning a lot of contracts recently (I guess they finally got that court case cleared up ). Might could be a bright future. 
). Might could be a bright future. Hillhater
100 TW
good find Webfoot.
Notice that site also has the 1.1Ahr, Nano-Phosphate LiFePO4 Original A123 APR 18650 M1A Cell " .. for $2.18
and the 2.3ahr 26650 A123 for $8.00 each
Notice that site also has the 1.1Ahr, Nano-Phosphate LiFePO4 Original A123 APR 18650 M1A Cell " .. for $2.18
and the 2.3ahr 26650 A123 for $8.00 each
lesdit
100 W
I'd be in for 2 1/2 to 3 KWHR worth.
I think more people are willing to do business because the cells are leaking out the back doors of CN factories now. There is a frenzy to get EV vehicles on the road, and I'm not talking about hobbyists.
Did GM use LG for the Volt, I also heard that GM made the cells themselves, but I somehow doubt that.
A123 has had the larger prismatic cells since 2009, I've seem them documented, with complete pack offerings as well. In 2009.
So it's about time for these to trickle out some back doors !
A group buy would be fantastic. The small vendors like PSI, thunder*, etc will krap their pants when the real cells start becoming available !
I think more people are willing to do business because the cells are leaking out the back doors of CN factories now. There is a frenzy to get EV vehicles on the road, and I'm not talking about hobbyists.
Did GM use LG for the Volt, I also heard that GM made the cells themselves, but I somehow doubt that.
A123 has had the larger prismatic cells since 2009, I've seem them documented, with complete pack offerings as well. In 2009.
So it's about time for these to trickle out some back doors !
A group buy would be fantastic. The small vendors like PSI, thunder*, etc will krap their pants when the real cells start becoming available !
AndyH
10 kW
They've gone up - they're $50.99 now... Should have bought them yesterday.webfootguy said:
olaf-lampe
10 kW
How did you configure the battery of your bike, jonescg?
Would 20Ah be the best shot in capacity for most of us?
I could get some 54Ah prismatic Kokam cells ( SLPB120216216 ) for a bit more than 100$. Check my pocketbike build in my signature.
-Olaf
Would 20Ah be the best shot in capacity for most of us?
I could get some 54Ah prismatic Kokam cells ( SLPB120216216 ) for a bit more than 100$. Check my pocketbike build in my signature.
-Olaf
jonescg
100 MW
Hi Olaf,
I got Paul to build 8 packs of 4S, 3P. The terminations are a piece of fabrication gold, but given the time again he wouldn't do them that way... or at all :lol: Seriously though it was a lot of hard work to get them terminated, so I think if someone invents a copper plated bulldog-clip or something like it the process of building n x 20 Ah capacity packs will be much easier. Or solder them, but no-one I know has the skills or know-how to do it without shorting a few cells.
I got Paul to build 8 packs of 4S, 3P. The terminations are a piece of fabrication gold, but given the time again he wouldn't do them that way... or at all :lol: Seriously though it was a lot of hard work to get them terminated, so I think if someone invents a copper plated bulldog-clip or something like it the process of building n x 20 Ah capacity packs will be much easier. Or solder them, but no-one I know has the skills or know-how to do it without shorting a few cells.
AndyH
10 kW
Once the A123's are available AND someone figures out how to terminate them.lesdit said:
j3tch1u
10 kW
you can wrap thin copper sheet (or strand) around the overlapping tabs and clamp down to maximize surface contact. either that or just clamp between 2 copper buss bars.
Xrain
100 W
Solder Paste and a Heat gun.
a good time to jump in then, ive been running 24 of these cells in a 3kw bike for about a year (got them here from cellman), and after about 150 cycles they appear to have exactly the same capacity (19.4 ah) as when they were new, those with long term experience in the world of batteries will hopefully understand the awesomeness of these cells.
every now and then i get hopefull about the ability of lipos to have a decent lifetime and reflect on the humor and good times of the last good fire, so again in the last 6 months the ES folks have had good stories to tell, some unbelievably high 1000cycle lives etc, so i bought $250 worth of blue HC lipos as a booster pack, but after less than 40 full cycles i shorted one for a millisecond (yes, my fault) and they flamed up in my car, and the other pack (despite very carefull 4.10volt per cell ballence charging etc) have turned into sausages, again..
lipos can be heaps of fun in toys and even short term testing or light weight sprint packs in ev's, but not when you want a reliable long term outcome, with
these a123 cells are the first time (since maby sanyo scr nicads of 25 years ago) that ive ended up happy with the cells after say a year of constant use, and believe me ive tried every type of cell i can lay my hands on, and generally they are a let down, also these cells have not one real disadvantage over lipos -and many advantages especially in decent pack sizes.
also, just ordered a sample from a123rc to check out our potential new source.
in summary: buy these cells, they are the best. :wink:
and ill let yaal know what arrives from a123rc.
every now and then i get hopefull about the ability of lipos to have a decent lifetime and reflect on the humor and good times of the last good fire, so again in the last 6 months the ES folks have had good stories to tell, some unbelievably high 1000cycle lives etc, so i bought $250 worth of blue HC lipos as a booster pack, but after less than 40 full cycles i shorted one for a millisecond (yes, my fault) and they flamed up in my car, and the other pack (despite very carefull 4.10volt per cell ballence charging etc) have turned into sausages, again..
lipos can be heaps of fun in toys and even short term testing or light weight sprint packs in ev's, but not when you want a reliable long term outcome, with
these a123 cells are the first time (since maby sanyo scr nicads of 25 years ago) that ive ended up happy with the cells after say a year of constant use, and believe me ive tried every type of cell i can lay my hands on, and generally they are a let down, also these cells have not one real disadvantage over lipos -and many advantages especially in decent pack sizes.
also, just ordered a sample from a123rc to check out our potential new source.
in summary: buy these cells, they are the best. :wink:
and ill let yaal know what arrives from a123rc.
olaf-lampe
10 kW
Is it just me, or did they raise the price to 55$? Seems, they read this thread...or running out of stock?
-Olaf
-Olaf
jimw1960
10 kW
webfootguy said:
Do you mean $50.99? Or did the price go up $10.
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